Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[CDJ]

I can see why players would have a problem with it, but I don't really get why that isn't just handled in-house. Do we know if anyone suffered any consequences if they refused to give Babcock the phone? Babcock has ideas from 30 years ago that don't fly anymore, but do we know if any internal discussions took place? Because if a player says Yes but then sends a text to his buddies complaining about it, it's kinda weak sauce. You're a grown man, so stand up to your a-hole boss if you think he crosses a line.

The guy known to f*** around with his players and the guy in charge of your ice time and role in the league while you’re just trying to break in?

Sure what could go wrong

 

[Tob]

I didn't read it because of paywall but that article saying according to sources, Jenner was having very different experience compared to younger players is likely the BJs pushing that story out to save their captain.

 

[stevo61]

Wanted him to be the Jets coach over Bones. I liked what he did with our kids on the Moose. He allowed them to play to their strengths.

I hope that is the approach he brings to the Blue Jackets. Really sucks for him that he has less the a week to come up with his own schemes for the year.

He was an assistant for 2 years and probably started the process with Babs, Id wager he already had a good idea of what he wanted and is most definitely not going in unprepared. Ive always kind of wondered how much assistant coaches hold back and work on by themselves even just for their own amusement

 

[Beau Knows]

I can see why players would have a problem with it, but I don't really get why that isn't just handled in-house. Do we know if anyone suffered any consequences if they refused to give Babcock the phone? Babcock has ideas from 30 years ago that don't fly anymore, but do we know if any internal discussions took place? Because if a player says Yes but then sends a text to his buddies complaining about it, it's kinda weak sauce.

It was handled, they "fired" him. If it went down as described by some of the speculation (taking their phones and going through them) then it was a serious breach of trust and privacy and warranted firing.

You're a grown man, so stand up to your a-hole boss if you think he crosses a line.

The same logic applies to their boss. You just wrote a bunch of excuses about Babcock being too old too learn how to coach in the modern era and to respect his players. It's not their job to teach him, if he can't do it he shouldn't have the job.

I didn't read it because of paywall but that article saying according to sources, Jenner was having very different experience compared to younger players is likely the BJs pushing that story out to save their captain.

Maybe, but that's been a known pattern with Babcock. He didn't mess around with Lidstrom, he went after the lesser guys, like a bully would.

 

[PanniniClaus]

This is why the NHLPA exists... to look after players rights. I don't love Unions in all cases, but they did their job here and Babcock is in his proper place.

Very happy for Pascal Vincent, a proper and professional man.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The guy known to f*** around with his players and the guy in charge of your ice time and role in the league while you’re just trying to break in?

Sure what could go wrong

I was once a lowly employee in a pretty big corporation and when they announced a plan that they were going to build in a remote viewing backdoor that would allow corporate people to watch your screen as you work at all times, I stood up in a big meeting with the director of the business unit and criticized the plan. My bosses later on chewed me out saying that it 'reflected poorly' on them that one of their employees would criticize the plan. I said that I have my principles and will speak my mind.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It was handled, they "fired" him. If it went down as described by some of the speculation (taking their phones and going through them) then it was a serious breach of trust and privacy and warranted firing.

It looks to me like they asked him to resign due to the public backlash. I think it's odd that something like this would be triggered by a text message to a guy who has a podcast. If a bunch of players have a problem with it, that should end up on Babcock's boss's desk, not on some player podcast.

 

[surixon]

He was an assistant for 2 years and probably started the process with Babs, Id wager he already had a good idea of what he wanted and is most definitely not going in unprepared. Ive always kind of wondered how much assistant coaches hold back and work on by themselves even just for their own amusement

He's very thorough so he will be prepared. It depends on the situation but often times assistants will have input but will ultimately implement the head coaches vision.

 

[CDJ]

I was once a lowly employee in a pretty big corporation and when they announced a plan that they were going to build in a remote viewing backdoor that would allow corporate people to watch your screen as you work at all times, I stood up in a big meeting with the director of the business unit and criticized the plan. My bosses later on chewed me out saying that it 'reflected poorly' on them that one of their employees would criticize the plan. I said that I have my principles and will speak my mind.

Really all depends on your company and situation and how you go about it. CEO of my company is a pretty good dude tbh so I wouldn’t have to worry about anything like this. Blue Jackets players unfortunately did have to worry about this and we learned that the NHL is becoming a workplace where you cannot get away with being creepy

I did work at a place that told me they weren’t gonna put a tracker on the work truck but then they did…that was lame and I felt micromanaged but at the end of the day the truck is their property so it’s their prerogative. They wouldn’t ask to go through my personal phone tho. They know that’s a violation.

 

[HTFN]

I can see why players would have a problem with it, but I don't really get why that isn't just handled in-house. Do we know if anyone suffered any consequences if they refused to give Babcock the phone? Babcock has ideas from 30 years ago that don't fly anymore, but do we know if any internal discussions took place? Because if a player says Yes but then sends a text to his buddies complaining about it, it's kinda weak sauce. You're a grown man, so stand up to your a-hole boss if you think he crosses a line.

You need to think a lot harder about this.

First of all, if Babcock's "ideas from 30 years ago" don't fly anymore why the hell is he a coach in 2023? We saying he can keep his hockey coaching up to date but not reconsider the way he handles people? After being fired for it before? Bad argument.

Second, standing up to your boss in a one-on-one meeting where they directly control your hours, exposure, experience, and perception in the hiring pool is exactly why this isn't a thing that should exist. You shouldn't have to weigh pissing that guy off over protecting yourself. That's what abusing a power dynamic is, and the only person at fault for this is the one who created it: Mike Babcock.

You can find another comparable job. There is not another comparable NHL.

 

[CherryToke]

Lawsuits are expensive and you are up against monster companies with lawyers on retainer. They'll drag out the lawsuit knowing you have mouths to feed / bills to pay. For every lawsuit you hear about, there are a 1,000,000 incidents that never get reported.

If you believe worse doesn't go on on a daily basis in corporate America, you've never worked in corporate America.

I can't imagine a corporation wanting to drag on a privacy violation case in the modern era. Any sort of leak to the wrong media outlet could be a shitstorm worth more than paying to make it go away quickly.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

You need to think a lot harder about this.

First of all, if Babcock's "ideas from 30 years ago" don't fly anymore why the hell is he a coach in 2023? We saying he can keep his hockey coaching up to date but not reconsider the way he handles people? After being fired for it before? Bad argument.

Second, standing up to your boss in a one-on-one meeting where they directly control your hours, exposure, experience, and perception in the hiring pool is exactly why this isn't a thing that should exist. You shouldn't have to weigh pissing that guy off over protecting yourself. That's what abusing a power dynamic is, and the only person at fault for this is the one who created it: Mike Babcock.

You can find another comparable job. There is not another comparable NHL.

Merely a reminder that all these "today's players are weak" tough guy posters
are from a generation where literally everybody had an 8-track of ABBA.

 

[ORRFForever]

I can't imagine a corporation wanting to drag on a privacy violation case in the modern era. Any sort of leak to the wrong media outlet could be a shitstorm worth more than paying to make it go away quickly.

Because this is the NHL and Mike Babcock, it's a different level of scrutiny.

Again, we've ALL had bosses from Hell, of which Babcock was one, so no one's going to shed a tear because he was fired.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You need to think a lot harder about this.

First of all, if Babcock's "ideas from 30 years ago" don't fly anymore why the hell is he a coach in 2023? We saying he can keep his hockey coaching up to date but not reconsider the way he handles people? After being fired for it before? Bad argument.

Second, standing up to your boss in a one-on-one meeting where they directly control your hours, exposure, experience, and perception in the hiring pool is exactly why this isn't a thing that should exist. You shouldn't have to weigh pissing that guy off over protecting yourself. That's what abusing a power dynamic is, and the only person at fault for this is the one who created it: Mike Babcock.

You can find another comparable job. There is not another comparable NHL.

I was surprised Babcock got another job. I think it was obvious that his style wasn't going to fly anymore. I'm not surprised that something happened that led to him getting fired. It's surprising to me it's something like this though and came the way it did. Because it seems like a pretty straight up question with a pretty straight up answer: "Hey give me your phone, I wanna see what's on it." "No way man". Then what? If half the people say No he's gonna trade half the team or send them all down? It's fairly straight forward, you say "No" then you can call your union rep and talk to someone in management, if Babcock takes it badly. Then see what they say. It looks to me like we all agree that this stuff is not acceptable anymore, and that seems to be a pretty common view in the league, too.

Of course comparisons to corporate life are apples and oranges, but it works both ways. I was an office clerk of the type companies hire and fire many thousands of every year. These guys are elite hockey players of which there aren't a whole lot available. So while there's only one NHL, almost everyone on this planet is not qualified to play in it.

 

[myleafs]

This is very strange, and not in the way people are saying. Babcock I don't doubt wanted to get to know his players. In this social media age we have lost a lot of togetherness with each other and I highly doubt Babcock is a big social media type of guy so he was trying to connect in the only way he thought possible. This sort of reminds me of Al Arbour. He knew the names of his players' wives, he knew their kids, etc. He had a great interest in the lives of his players. Since when did this become wrong? I know that when I coach I always make sure I know the names of the child's parents. Maybe not on the first day do I remember this, but as the season goes on I get to know all of their names. People feel more comfortable with you if you know their name. It means you took time to do this. If the kids have siblings I become familiar with them too. This used to just be common courtesy and nothing more. Leave it to Biz and the NHLPA for making it a big issue. Didn't the veterans on Columbus actually defend Babcock?

You are giving Babcock way way way too much credit here. No way in H E double hockey sticks was he just trying to get to know his players aw shucks style and was only misunderstood by the mean old internet and over sensitive rookies. Zero chance of that. The fact he is no longer the coach should speak volumes and make it clear he was crossing lines.

 

[Crosby2010]

You are giving Babcock way way way too much credit here. No way in H E double hockey sticks was he just trying to get to know his players aw shucks style and was only misunderstood by the mean old internet and over sensitive rookies. Zero chance of that. The fact he is no longer the coach should speak volumes and make it clear he was crossing lines.

But do you think a guy who got a second chance as a coach (by the way Keefe has been worse than Babcock, as Babcock got fired just as the Leafs were hitting their stride while Keefe has a laundry list of playoff chokes) would deliberately try to do something that would get him fired right away? What do you think his intent was? Unusual as it might be, it doesn't strike me like his intent was bad at all. Does Babcock strike you as a guy who has ever really been up to par with the youth of today? It seems to me like with some princesses it was a misunderstanding, and that's about it. Why it went further just tells you how soft the NHL is today.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Well alright then. lol

 

[catnip]

Since it seems like a popular misconception... Getting to know someone doesn't mean getting unfettered access to their private thoughts or private devices. That's an episode of Criminal Minds.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

He's their boss because he controls their ice time, can bench them and potentially destroy their careers. This is not hard to understand.

If you honestly think that a hockey team is like a family I honestly don't know what to tell you. More importantly, if you honestly think a healthy family goes through each others' cell phone photos I don't know what to tell you either

Sports athlete is not a career, do you really think these athletes jobs can be compared to ours? These guys sign guaranteed contracts worth millions to play a game.

 

[JoVel]

I don't know how this isn't the beginning of the end for Kekäläinen's tenure there as well, but as his last move he should definitely hire Quenneville as a head coach.

 

[tiburon12]

I was surprised Babcock got another job. I think it was obvious that his style wasn't going to fly anymore. I'm not surprised that something happened that led to him getting fired. It's surprising to me it's something like this though and came the way it did. Because it seems like a pretty straight up question with a pretty straight up answer: "Hey give me your phone, I wanna see what's on it." "No way man". Then what? If half the people say No he's gonna trade half the team or send them all down? It's fairly straight forward, you say "No" then you can call your union rep and talk to someone in management, if Babcock takes it badly. Then see what they say. It looks to me like we all agree that this stuff is not acceptable anymore, and that seems to be a pretty common view in the league, too.

IDK man, maybe for veteran players that's easy to do, but CBJ has a bunch of young guys who, between their collective, are not college educated, not native english speakers, have never had a professional job, were meeting the coach for the first time in the office, and so on.

To assume that kids, who again may not have the experience or had the education to develop critical thinking skills, or even know what kind of NHLPA options are available to them this early in their careers, would have the confidence and tact to navigate a situation like this is a high expectation.

These are kids who probably have never been in a position of power in their life and have likely lived their whole lives under the direction that you do what the coach/teacher/parent/whatever says. I don't think it's fair to expect that much from players in that position.

And on top of that, Babs knows all of this.

 

[myleafs]

But do you think a guy who got a second chance as a coach (by the way Keefe has been worse than Babcock, as Babcock got fired just as the Leafs were hitting their stride while Keefe has a laundry list of playoff chokes) would deliberately try to do something that would get him fired right away? What do you think his intent was? Unusual as it might be, it doesn't strike me like his intent was bad at all. Does Babcock strike you as a guy who has ever really been up to par with the youth of today? It seems to me like with some princesses it was a misunderstanding, and that's about it. Why it went further just tells you how soft the NHL is today.

The leafs were not hitting their stride when Babcock got fired, they were a .500 team. He should have been fired before the season started. Keefe has had more success than Babs had as a leaf coach so.....

Listen Babs has done many douchey things. One doesnt get the reputation he has without there being truth to the stories. I saw and heard him enough in Toronto to see what he is about and he is more than fully capable of doing something with bad intent, so yes I totally believe he had not so innocent intentions in this case. The fact he is gone so fast should clear up any apprehension you have in vilifying him. We have all met not nice people before...he is one of them.

 

[Crosby2010]

The leafs were not hitting their stride when Babcock got fired, they were a .500 team. He should have been fired before the season started. Keefe has had more success than Babs had as a leaf coach so.....

Listen Babs has done many douchey things. One doesnt get the reputation he has without there being truth to the stories. I saw and heard him enough in Toronto to see what he is about and he is more than fully capable of doing something with bad intent, so yes I totally believe he had not so innocent intentions in this case. The fact he is gone so fast should clear up any apprehension you have in vilifying him. We have all met not nice people before...he is one of them.

The Leafs were actually hitting their stride. 2019 was probably the first time they could have won a playoff series, and they didn't, but they lost to a pretty darn good team. Babs is fired in November of 2019, a month and a half into a season, you really think it was Keefe that turned the Leafs around? He has won a single playoff series in his coaching career. And then they lost to a Cinderella team the next round, quite badly as well. Sorry, the guy hasn't had success, he's had plenty of playoff failures. Why he still has a job in Toronto is anyone's guess. So when your replacement has had much more time with an elite team and still not done any better, then I think it is fair to say Babcock probably didn't deserve to get fired in Toronto, let alone now.

When you can find a guy who guided Canada to the international success he has done then maybe we can start comparing.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Weird how old coaches are recycled through. Why doesn’t the nhl look for younger coaches from minor leagues the same way they do for drafting players? This is like paying todays jagr 15m to play over bedard.

 

[Crosby2010]

Weird how old coaches are recycled through. Why doesn’t the nhl look for younger coaches from minor leagues the same way they do for drafting players? This is like paying todays jagr 15m to play over bedard.

Because you can last longer coaching. You can be out of shape and still coach. Worked for Ken Hitchcock, among others.