Proposal: B Tkachuk (Ott) for M Marner (Tor)

[elitepete]

Adds a thank you while Ottawa adds prospects and/ draft picks.

Marner is a little better (for the time being) but Tkachuk is locked up for a much longer term at a much lower cap hit, is 2.5 years younger, brings much more intangibles (leadership, physicality). Most teams in the NHL would rather have him all things considered. Also, Marner is proven playoff choker.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Tkachuk is made for playoffs till marner shows up for playoffs. But marner helps a team make playoffs more.

 

[Zonk]

Tkachuk is made for playoffs till marner shows up for playoffs. But marner helps a team make playoffs more.

How do you know that Tkachuk is made for the playoffs? He has yet to score a point in the playoffs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Marner is a little better (for the time being) but Tkachuk is locked up for a much longer term at a much lower cap hit, is 2.5 years younger, brings much more intangibles (leadership, physicality). Most teams in the NHL would rather have him all things considered. Also, Marner is proven playoff choker.

You don't speak for most people in the NHL. Tkachuk does bring more physicality no doubt but not necessarily more leadership. Yes, Tkachuk does have a slightly lower cap hit, but Marner is a better player. Marner has very good playoff stats 25 points in 32 games. Tkachuk has yet to play a playoff game (through no fault of his own) so there is no comparable there.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Tkachuk is made for playoffs till marner shows up for playoffs. But marner helps a team make playoffs more.

It is unknown what if any Tkachuk will or won't do in the playoffs while Marner has 25 points in his 32 playoff games.

 

[Adam da bomb]

How do you know that Tkachuk is made for the playoffs? He has yet to score a point in the playoffs.

Because the playoffs is a more physical beast and I think tkachuk handles the physicality better. I could be wrong.

 

[Zonk]

Because the playoffs is a more physical beast and I think tkachuk handles the physicality better. I could be wrong.

Most players do not score as much in the playoffs as they do in the regular season.
Marner has been a disappointment, but still scores at .78 PPG (in the playoffs), and is excellent defensively.
Tkachuk scores at .66 in the regular season, (and has never been in the playoffs), and is not as good defensively.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

This is not about points. (Did you really think that it was? Really? Honestly???)

It is about who is the best player. By now it should be obvious, even to you, that Tkachuk is at least a tier below Marner. Marner is in a tier with Rantanen, Stone, and P. Kane; Tkachuk is not.

It literally doesn't say the criteria at all for that voting. Based on the choices it's primarily points based though, and that follows suit for previous (at least 2) seasons as well.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Most players do not score as much in the playoffs as they do in the regular season.
Marner has been a disappointment, but still scores at .78 PPG (in the playoffs), and is excellent defensively.
Tkachuk scores at .66 in the regular season, (and has never been in the playoffs), and is not as good defensively.

To be fair Marner has played on the significantly better team and playing with Matthews and the rest does help. Tkachuk not so much. I just think he could get more dirty goals when scoring is at a premium and whistles get put away just my opinion.

 

[Zonk]

It literally doesn't say the criteria at all for that voting. Based on the choices it's primarily points based though, and that follows suit for previous (at least 2) seasons as well.

Sorry, but you are still wrong.
The voting is based on performance, which includes offense and defense. If it was just points, then there would be no need for a vote.
I admire your perseverance, but not your analytical skills.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Sorry, but you are still wrong.
The voting is based on performance, which includes offense and defense. If it was just points, then there would be no need for a vote.
I admire your perseverance, but not your analytical skills.

You have zero proof of what the voting is based on, you are just making a guess like anyone else can. If you want analytics scroll up to my post comparing Marner and Tkachuk's 5v5 play over multiple different periods. I even linked NaturalStatTricks comparison for people to go and check different years themselves

 

[Zonk]

You have zero proof of what the voting is based on, you are just making a guess like anyone else can. If you want analytics scroll up to my post comparing Marner and Tkachuk's 5v5 play over multiple different periods. I even linked NaturalStatTricks comparison for people to go and check different years themselves

I am unable to find the actual ballot that is used by the Professional Hockey Writers when they vote, but did find this quotation from the president:

“As hockey writers, we are tasked with holding teams, players and the league itself accountable, so it is only fair that the hockey world can hold us to the same account when it comes to determining the winners of these prestigious honors,” said PHWA president Frank Seravalli. “This is a task that our members take incredibly seriously, spending hours in the rinks, researching and soliciting sources to ensure that we get it right.”

PHWA reveals 2020 NHL Awards ballots – Professional Hockey Writers Association

Do you really think that the voters "spend hours in the rinks, researching and soliciting sources to ensure that we get it right" and then just vote for the players who have the most points? Seriously? Honestly? Is this the best that you can do?

I am going to bed. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I am unable to find the actual ballot that is used by the Professional Hockey Writers when they vote, but did find this quotation from the president:

“As hockey writers, we are tasked with holding teams, players and the league itself accountable, so it is only fair that the hockey world can hold us to the same account when it comes to determining the winners of these prestigious honors,” said PHWA president Frank Seravalli. “This is a task that our members take incredibly seriously, spending hours in the rinks, researching and soliciting sources to ensure that we get it right.”

PHWA reveals 2020 NHL Awards ballots – Professional Hockey Writers Association

Do you really think that the voters "spend hours in the rinks, researching and soliciting sources to ensure that we get it right" and then just vote for the players who have the most points? Seriously? Honestly? Is this the best that you can do?

I am going to bed. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

You are kind of reaching now and I am not saying it is strictly scoring otherwise Barrie would have been voted. However scoring likely has a major impact on the voting.
Personally I think you should use a more legitimate source than something this vague when arguing analytics

 

[Leaf Fans]

Because the playoffs is a more physical beast and I think tkachuk handles the physicality better. I could be wrong.

Sure, he might or might not. It is a complete unknown.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sure, he might or might not. It is a complete unknown.

Therefore, I can only state my opinion.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Therefore, I can only state my opinion.

Of course.

 

[Joe n]

Did you actually just use All Star voting as a comparison? Troy Terry just got more votes to go to the All Star game this year than Tkachuk even thouigh Tkachuk has been the far better player this year. Thats how population density effects fan voting. What a horrible attempt at justification

He's talking about 1st and 2nd all star voting done at the end of the year, not the one where a player from every team has to be represented.

 

[SpezDispenser]

For the ten millionth time, Ottawa's identity going forward goes hand in hand with Tkachuk. We can't and shouldn't trade him - and we won't.

 

[Reality Czech]

Ignoring contracts and captainship and team needs etc, Tkachuk is one level down from Marner. Tkachuk is at the Nylander level.

Marner may have the potential to score more points, but Tkachuk is a more complete player and if I had to pick one for my team in the playoffs it's Brady all day every day.

 

[McVespa99]

I dont do that if Im Ottawa.

 

[Hobnobs]

Im not talking about Brady's defensive game

Sorry, meant Matthew.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Marner may have the potential to score more points, but Tkachuk is a more complete player and if I had to pick one for my team in the playoffs it's Brady all day every day.

Funny thing is Tkachuk is not the more complete player. Marner is the better player offensively and defensively. he is one of the main reasons the Leafs are top 3 in both special teams. Tkachuk is the more physical player by a mile but no where as complete a player as Marner. With that said he is the type of player Ottawa wants for their core and Stutzle is looking like he might become a Marner lite in the next couple of years. Ottawa has zero reason to make this trade.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Sorry, meant Matthew.

But Matthew is well known to have an excellent 2-way game and has been like that for years. If you meant Matthew in your last post I'm really confused by your original statement and how inaccurate it is

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

You wish.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You wish.

No, I don't. The answer is no.