Proposal: B Tkachuk (Ott) for M Marner (Tor)

[NMacrules]

In a nod to the "vs" thread in the general forum which seems to have fans of both teams chiming in, what does the rest of the fanbase' think?

Two young guns, already proven their worth, different styles of play.

Personally, as stated over there, if the Leafs weren't so top heavy with Mathews/Tavares/Nylander I would want to keep Marner. Some nights I see prime Gilmour potential with him....

..having said that...I see a lot I like in Tkachuk as well, and I think if Marner was the main attraction he would shine in Ottawa.

Good? Bad? Who adds? One for one? Gotta be a fifth round pick in there somewhere.

Stopped reading after that nonsense.

 

[kevsh]

The huge disparity in their contracts is the only reason to even consider this from the Leafs POV, even as a purely hypothetical. For the Sens, the opposite reason. Plus, if Ottawa ever considered moving Brady I'd imagine the priority would be a center coming back.

But sticking to these two, Tkachuk is not anywhere in the ballpark of the player Marner is. Brady brings a different skillset, sure, and the Leafs could use some more toughness / physicality in their forward group but over the past 4 seasons go ahead and count the number of players that have a higher PPG than Mitch. It won't take long. Kills penalties too. He's really good.

Mitch is an exceptional talent that unfortunately got paid too much and is part of an under-achieving (playoff) group. But last time I checked, he's helped his team get into the playoffs the past 5 seasons and Toronto has a legit chance at winning the toughest division in hockey this year. Brady doesn't have anywhere near the level of teammates that Mitch does obviously, but he sure hasn't elevated them either in any sense before and since getting the "C".

 

[dukeofjive]

Ottawa cant afford marner.

 

[BradyTkachucky]

Easy pass. Brady is exactly what the Leafs need though.

 

[Hobnobs]

Ah yes, the points, the only thing that defines a player.

Im really glad you brought up defensive play though, Tkachuk's has been better for quite a while now

While I do like Brady Tkachuk and obviously hate the leafs. You seriously need to stop. This is homerism in overdrive. Brady is obviously alright defensively but he's not some kind of selke candidate not even compared to Marner and Nylander.

Are you one of those guys who equates hits with being good defensively or something? Or did you mean to say hes a good forechecker? Because defensively he's pretty average.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ah yes, the points, the only thing that defines a player.

Im really glad you brought up defensive play though, Tkachuk's has been better for quite a while now

Maybe to you, but for Marner the previous poster mentioned Marners excellent defensive play and pk.

 

[robsenz]

This obsession with comparing two of the most polar opposite players is really weird.

 

[crowi]

Prime Gilmour..... sure bud.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Ah yes, the points, the only thing that defines a player.

Im really glad you brought up defensive play though, Tkachuk's has been better for quite a while now

I see three nominations for the selke vs a big fat 0

Matthew tkachuk was never, and never will be a better player than Marner. He’s worse offensively:
Last 5 years:
Marner
311GP - 98G - 236A - 334P
pacing for 88 points

Tkachuk
315GP - 117G - 158P - 275P
Pacing for 72 points

tkachuk has never been better defensively. Marner always has been better.

Marner is a better pp and pk player, considering tkachuk doesn’t even pk

and for how much the fans shit on marners playoffs, at least he isn’t Matthew tkachuk with his 5 in 15.

Matthew tkachuk is a better player than Nylander, no doubt about that. But he is far from touching what Marner is.

 

[elitepete]

Toronto adds

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ottawa cant afford marner.

Sure they can.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Toronto adds

Adds a thank you while Ottawa adds prospects and/ draft picks.

 

[dukeofjive]

Sure they can.

Not with melnyk as an owner.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not with melnyk as an owner.

He might be too stingy to pay, but he can afford to.

 

[Zonk]

Matthew Tkachuk has been on or Marner's level for years now, if not better. Saying Brady will never reach that level is a pretty bold claim considering how good he is and how much he seems to improve each year

Last year Marner was voted as the first team all star on right wing. Tkachuk did not get a single vote. Not one. Zero.
This is not saying that Tkachuk is not a good player, but to say that he has been on the same level as Marner for years is preposterous.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

While I do like Brady Tkachuk and obviously hate the leafs. You seriously need to stop. This is homerism in overdrive. Brady is obviously alright defensively but he's not some kind of selke candidate not even compared to Marner and Nylander.

Are you one of those guys who equates hits with being good defensively or something? Or did you mean to say hes a good forechecker? Because defensively he's pretty average.

Im not talking about Brady's defensive game

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Not with melnyk as an owner.

After July 1st, he's only owed $17M over the next 3 seasons. Any team would pay that and it actually makes sense for Ottawa as they won't have cap issues in the next 3 years.

Just not at the expense of Tkachuk - Marner is the "better" player right now but Tkachuk brings some different elements that fits Ottawa's identity like a glove.

I just don't see the fit for either team. Ottawa won't be trading any of their core pieces yet - maybe they consider trading their 1st (top 10) plus some in order to accelerate the rebuild, but that wouldn't help Toronto unless they flipped it. But again, not sure why they would trade Marner within the division.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Last year Marner was voted as the first team all star on right wing. Tkachuk did not get a single vote. Not one. Zero.
This is not saying that Tkachuk is not a good player, but to say that he has been on the same level as Marner for years is preposterous.

Did you actually just use All Star voting as a comparison? Troy Terry just got more votes to go to the All Star game this year than Tkachuk even thouigh Tkachuk has been the far better player this year. Thats how population density effects fan voting. What a horrible attempt at justification

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I see three nominations for the selke vs a big fat 0

Matthew tkachuk was never, and never will be a better player than Marner. He’s worse offensively:
Last 5 years:
Marner
311GP - 98G - 236A - 334P
pacing for 88 points

Tkachuk
315GP - 117G - 158P - 275P
Pacing for 72 points

tkachuk has never been better defensively. Marner always has been better.

Marner is a better pp and pk player, considering tkachuk doesn’t even pk

and for how much the fans shit on marners playoffs, at least he isn’t Matthew tkachuk with his 5 in 15.

Matthew tkachuk is a better player than Nylander, no doubt about that. But he is far from touching what Marner is.

This really isn't that hard to figure out. "Pass to Matthews" tends to lead to more actual points, at least more than "pass to Backlund." Marner has never even paced more than 30 goals before until this current season.
M. Tkachuk doesn't play PK because of his foot speed, that doesn't take away from the fact he is an elite 2-way player at 5v5.
Here is M. Tkachuk vs Marner at 5v5 this year:

Here is M. Tkachuk vs Marner at 5v5 from 2019- now:

I'll even exclude this year and look at Marner's vs Tkachuk from 2018 - 2021:

You can even compare them on NaturalStatTrick for free too if you want: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?
Change the years too if you want, Marner is not head and shoulders better by any statistic

 

[Zonk]

Did you actually just use All Star voting as a comparison? Troy Terry just got more votes to go to the All Star game this year than Tkachuk even Tkachuk has been the far better player this year. Thats how population density effects fan voting. What a horrible attempt at justification

My bad. I assumed that anyone posting here had at least a casual knowledge of the NHL.
I was referring to the voting organized by the NHL at the end of the year. The league invites the top 100 members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association to vote on the top players. (These are the people who write about hockey for a living, and not casual fans.)
Each of the 100 voters gets a ballot with three spots for their first, second and third choices.
Tkachuk got zero first place votes. He got zero second place votes. He got zero third place votes.
Do you understand now?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

My bad. I assumed that anyone posting here had at least a casual knowledge of the NHL.
I was referring to the voting organized by the NHL at the end of the year. The league invites the top 100 members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association to vote on the top players. (These are the people who write about hockey for a living, and not casual fans.)
Each of the 100 voters gets a ballot with three spots for their first, second and third choices.
Tkachuk got zero first place votes. He got zero second place votes. He got zero third place votes.
Do you understand now?

Are you referring to Selke voting and similar to that? Maybe share a link what you are referring to specifically

 

[34]

Neither team does it.

 

[Zonk]

Are you referring to Selke voting and similar to that? Maybe share a link what you are referring to specifically

LOL. I am referring to the first and second team all stars that the league has had every year for about a century. I am surprised that you have not heard about it. Here is a link:

NHL.com Media Site

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

LOL. I am referring to the first and second team all stars that the league has had every year for about a century. I am surprised that you have not heard about it. Here is a link:

NHL.com Media Site

I'm really not sure what this proves at all. I don't think anyone is debating Marner put up a lot of points last year

 

[Zonk]

I'm really not sure what this proves at all. I don't think anyone is debating Marner put up a lot of points last year

This is not about points. (Did you really think that it was? Really? Honestly???)

It is about who is the best player. By now it should be obvious, even to you, that Tkachuk is at least a tier below Marner. Marner is in a tier with Rantanen, Stone, and P. Kane; Tkachuk is not.