Proposal: B. Tkachuk for Kyrou.

[nbwingsfan]

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Brady Tkachuk is. The entire league is looking for guys like this who can score, agitate and lead and still 24. And everybody will see offensive upside like Matthew -- something that is maybe overvalued. Robert Thomas is a great player but his offense is only a little better and he doesn't bring the other stuff. Kyrou is a nice nice player but hardly a star. Both locked down makes them very nice.

I'm a Sabres fan and personally, I don't get Ottawa trading Tkachuk. They need a game changing D man for that.

Where is the idea he’s a “leader” coming from?

This is back to back years the Sens have massively disappointed compared to expectations.

Fighting a lot doesn’t make you a leader.

 

[Stlcup19]

Why are so many people severely underrating Thomas? Teams don't win cups without having legit #1 centers and Thomas is one of those. He's on pace for 90+ points while playing a great defensive game. He's also only 24 and locked into a great contract for for his entire prime until he's 31. Trading him opens a massive hole on the team and would put the Blues into the perpetual rebuilder camp.

There's a reason almost all the top centers of all time have cups and a lot of the best power forward wingers of all time have none (K.Tkachuk, Iginla, Rick Nash). Those guys are great pieces to have for sure, but they almost always need a #1 center playing with them to find playoff success.

Blues could do Kyrou with significant plusses for Brady but Thomas is a non-starter. And if that means no deal gets done then so be it.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Why are so many people severely underrating Thomas? Teams don't win cups without having legit #1 centers and Thomas is one of those. He's on pace for 90+ points while playing a great defensive game. He's also only 24 and locked into a great contract for for his entire prime until he's 31. Trading him opens a massive hole on the team and would put the Blues into the perpetual rebuilder camp.

There's a reason almost all the top centers of all time have cups and a lot of the best power forward wingers of all time have none (K.Tkachuk, Iginla, Rick Nash). Those guys are great pieces to have for sure, but they almost always need a #1 center playing with them to find playoff success.

Blues could do Kyrou with significant plusses for Brady but Thomas is a non-starter. And if that means no deal gets done then so be it.

I have zero desire to add multiple big addictions to Kyrou to get Brady. Going from Kyrou+1st this year+ one of Snuggy/Dvorky/Stenberg/Lindstein to Brady (no matter how good he is), sets us back multiple years if we are forced to rebuild.

 

[bert]

How does physicality matter outside of allowing him to score points, play defense, etc? If it matters it should show up on the scoreboard or advanced stats. There is zero metrics you can sight to say Tkachuk is anywhere near as valuable as Thomas. Saying Ottawa has good Center depth is fine. You can not want a trade lopsided in your favor because of needs. But Ottawa fans are asking for Thomas in these deals. So that isn't the case. They just vastly overrate Brady, or underrate Thomas.



Fair point. He is in the box a bunch, but he does draw as many or more penalties consistently. The rest of my argument stands. He has 4 years and will want the world after that.

You proved my point. Thanks. People that didnt play hockey simply dont understand what impact physcality has on the game. Wearing the other teams D men down, making them think twice about going back to get a puck. Making them think twice about taking a liberty with a linemate or star. Its not a video game, its a physical sport that is played on emotion. Injuries are massive, players not playing at 100 percent is huge.

 

[bert]

I have zero desire to add multiple big addictions to Kyrou to get Brady. Going from Kyrou+1st this year+ one of Snuggy/Dvorky/Stenberg/Lindstein to Brady (no matter how good he is), sets us back multiple years if we are forced to rebuild.

Thats a relief because Ottawa isnt doing that. Kyrou is redundant on this Ottawa team just like Debrincat was they have this type of forward. High skill with average defense and little jam. They need another Brady not to lose him. They have to get heavier and harder.

 

[BlueDream]

Then you don't get Tkachuk.

It's the equivalent of sens fans wanting Thomas back for Batherson. Why sens fans can understand this isn't realistic and Blues fans can't shows the disconnect from reality one fanbase has compared to the other.

Congrats on making a comparison that makes no sense.

The Senators aren’t going to get any #1 centers offered for Tkachuk. So I guess nobody will get him and he’ll walk as a UFA. That’s fine with me.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Thats a relief because Ottawa isnt doing that. Kyrou is redundant on this Ottawa team just like Debrincat was they have this type of forward. High skill with average defense and little jam. They need another Brady not to lose him. They have to get heavier and harder.

And that's completely fine.

For the Blues side I'm on the mindset that we need to find a way to build the Middle 6 better on our end. After Thomas-Buch-Kyrou (69, 48, 47) our highest forward scorers are Schenn with 31 points, Neighbours with 27 points, and Saad with 27 points. That's just not good enough. Neighbours is Fine, mainly because his lack of points is offset with his goal scoring and he's still very young and the other two are at least serviceable. But the rest of the middle six [Hayes (22P), Kapanen (15P), Toropchenko(14P), Bolduc(Rookie)] really needs a heavy reworking both offensively and defensively before we are ready to contend again.

 

[bert]

Congrats on making a comparison that makes no sense.

The Senators aren’t going to get any #1 centers offered for Tkachuk. So I guess nobody will get him and he’ll walk as a UFA. That’s fine with me.

Thanks for once again illustrating your lack of understanding of the NHL and hockey in general once again.

 

[BlueDream]

Thanks for once again illustrating your lack of understanding of the NHL and hockey in general once again.

You looking in a mirror right now? There are multiple people making you look foolish, bud.

 

[Majorityof1]

You proved my point. Thanks. People that didnt play hockey simply dont understand what impact physcality has on the game. Wearing the other teams D men down, making them think twice about going back to get a puck. Making them think twice about taking a liberty with a linemate or star. Its not a video game, its a physical sport that is played on emotion. Injuries are massive, players not playing at 100 percent is huge.

I said you were right, you don't have to keep arguing. I mean its obvious now that a former pee-wee hockey player has explained it. Thank you. Nobody has ever taken liberties with Senators teammates ever lest they get punched in their protective helmet by Brady Tkachuk, the world's best fighter.

Speed has zero impact on games. Dmen don't avoid pinchining lest a really fast player go the other way. I mean Connor McDavid, the best player in the world, obviously relies on physicality and not speed.

 

[bert]

You looking in a mirror right now? There are multiple people making you look foolish, bud.

Foolish because I know Brady Tkachuks value and you dont? Ok. He is a unicorn style player and the top power forward in the NHL. Its not my fault you dont understand it.

 

[stl76]

You looking in a mirror right now? There are multiple people making you look foolish, bud.

I’m still chuckling at his “Batherson > Kyrou” comments.

 

[bert]

I said you were right, you don't have to keep arguing. I mean its obvious now that a former pee-wee hockey player has explained it. Thank you. Nobody has ever taken liberties with Senators teammates ever lest they get punched in their protective helmet by Brady Tkachuk, the world's best fighter.

Speed has zero impact on games. Dmen don't avoid pinchining lest a really fast player go the other way. I mean Connor McDavid, the best player in the world, obviously relies on physicality and not speed.

Still skate with pros played CIS or now whats called U sports after playing jr b, jr A and in northern new york. Played in multiple playoff series in my lifetime when you battle against a heavy forward or d man over 7 games it takes its toll. But I am sure your ability to read a chart will supersede these experiences.

If you are incapable of understanding both physicality and speed are assets in the sport then you need a new hobby.

 

[Answer]

Brady is not on the level of his brother, but people think he is.

Only some Sens fan think that, not all

How ever, why are you proposing this trade when you followed up by bashing Brady on every follow-up post you have posted in this thread, that you created?

 

[stl76]

Only some Sens fan think that, not all

How ever, why are you proposing this trade when you followed up by bashing Brady on every follow-up post you have posted in this thread, that you created?

He didn’t start it…?

 

[Reality Czech]

Still skate with pros played CIS or now whats called U sports after playing jr b, jr A and in northern new york. Played in multiple playoff series in my lifetime when you battle against a heavy forward or d man over 7 games it takes its toll. But I am sure your ability to read a chart will supersede these experiences.

If you are incapable of understanding both physicality and speed are assets in the sport then you need a new hobby.

You need to learn how to have an adult conversation without coming across condescending and disrespectful. No one cares about your youth hockey accolades, Al Bundy.

Yes, physicality matters but it's not as important as you're making it out to be. If it was, then a guy like Radko Gudas would be more highly sought after. I'm a Blues fan that can admit Tkachuk is worth a decent amount more than Kyrou. Not Thomas though. It's clear non Blues fans don't know how good he is. If Brady was traded I'm guessing the return would fall somewhere in between what both fan bases are asking for in this thread. But unless Brady actively wants out, of course there is no reason for Ottawa to even consider moving him.

 

[bert]

I’m still chuckling at his “Batherson > Kyrou” comments.

Never said that, just that they are comparable. They are having identical seasons right now. Their career PPG is almost the same. They are the same age, play the same position. Batherson makes 3+ million less a year. I cant help it if you are incapable of being remotely objective.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Only some Sens fan think that, not all

How ever, why are you proposing this trade when you followed up by bashing Brady on every follow-up post you have posted in this thread, that you created?

Same avatar does't equal same person, but that can be an honest mistake.

I've decided to pretty much avoid this thread for the disaster that I knew it would turn into. I view Brady as higher than Kyrou, no issue from me for Sens fans not wanting that or wanting to trade Brady. Acting like Brady is some magic unicorn because he plays like his dad is silly though. Those "intangibles" does not make him more valuable than a player at a similar age that plays a more premium position that is also out-performing him.

 

[bert]

You need to learn how to have an adult conversation without coming across condescending and disrespectful. No one cares about your youth hockey accolades, Al Bundy.

Yes, physicality matters but it's not as important as you're making it out to be. If it was, then a guy like Radko Gudas would be more highly sought after. I'm a Blues fan that can admit Tkachuk is worth a decent amount more than Kyrou. Not Thomas though. It's clear non Blues fans don't know how good he is. If Brady was traded I'm guessing the return would fall somewhere in between what both fan bases are asking for in this thread. But unless Brady actively wants out, of course there is no reason for Ottawa to even consider moving him.

Classic HF boards retort in the bolded. I was coached by two coachs currently coaching in the NHL. If you think that you dont learn anything from that then have at it. I couldnt care less.

You know the irony of a blues fan not understanding heavy physical hockey when that was your teams mantra in 2019 when your team won.

Radko Gudas is a stay at home defenseman and yes he is sought after was an integral part of Florida's run.

However comparing Gudas to Tkachuk doesnt make sense they play different positions and have different roles. Tkachuk is a ppg forward that drags his team into the fight, he brings emotion and physicality to the game. He sticks up for teammates and protects them, he makes room for them. Again I cant teach people that are unwilling to be open to understanding the nuances to the game that physicality adds.

I am done in this thread I dont care to have to try and convince you. There is no benefit to me.

 

[Majorityof1]

Still skate with pros played CIS or now whats called U sports after playing jr b, jr A and in northern new york. Played in multiple playoff series in my lifetime when you battle against a heavy forward or d man over 7 games it takes its toll. But I am sure your ability to read a chart will supersede these experiences.

If you are incapable of understanding both physicality and speed are assets in the sport then you need a new hobby.

There, you said it in the bolded. Physicality is important, BUT so is speed. That means Kyrou's speed should be factored in. And its not being considered by many here. That is my argument. Not that Brady is bad, but that he is being overrated by many here based on his physicality, while ignoring Kyroi's speed and the effect has.

They produce at somewhat the same ppg pace, a nod to a litttle more for Tkachuk but not much. Both have defensive issues. But Brady is being put 2-3 tiers above Kyrou by many due to physicality while ignoring Kyrou's speed and game-breaking ability. In a vaccuum, Tkachuk is the better player to have than Kyrou, I am not arguing that. But its not by a ton. Factoring in 3 less years on Brady's contract and the AAV he will demand on the next one, its even less if at all, imo.

If you don't want to trade him, that's fine. Say he fills a need and we have other fast players. But saying It would take Kyrou++++++++++++++++++ is just insulting our player when it isn't necessary.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You know the irony of a blues fan not understanding heavy physical hockey when that was your teams mantra in 2019 when your team won.

Radko Gudas is a stay at home defenseman and yes he is sought after was an integral part of Florida's run.

However comparing Gudas to Tkachuk doesnt make sense they play different positions and have different toles. Tkachuk is a ppg forward that drags his team into the fight, he brings emotion and physicality to the game. He sticks up for teammates and protects them, he makes room for them. Again I cant teach people that are unwilling to be open to understanding the nuances to the game that physicality adds.

I am done in this thread I dont care to have to try and convince you. There is no benefit to me.

Not really, we had a couple 4th liners in Sunny and Barbie that were very physical, Schenn was physical. The defense was tall and long, but not overly physical.

 

[bert]

There, you said it in the bolded. Physicality is important, BUT so is speed. That means Kyrou's speed should be factored in. And its not being considered by many here. That is my argument. Not that Brady is bad, but that he is being overrated by many here based on his physicality, while ignoring Kyroi's speed and the effect has.

They produce at somewhat the same ppg pace, a nod to a litttle more for Tkachuk but not much. Both have defensive issues. But Brady is being put 2-3 tiers above Kyrou by many due to physicality while ignoring Kyrou's speed and game-breaking ability. In a vaccuum, Tkachuk is the better player to have than Kyrou, I am not arguing that. But its not by a ton. Factoring in 3 less years on Brady's contract and the AAV he will demand on the next one, its even less if at all, imo.

If you don't want to trade him, that's fine. Say he fills a need and we have other fast players. But saying It would take Kyrou++++++++++++++++++ is just insulting our player when it isn't necessary.

There is not a single team in the NHL that adding a player like Tkachuk wouldnt be a massive boost to the team. There are several teams that wouldnt benefit very much by adding Kyrou. Like Ottawa they have plenty of soft skill/speed. Because there are lots of skilled wingers in the NHL, its the easiest hole to fill in hockey. Power forwards that can actually score and contribute are the least common asset. You may not agree but the supply and demand in the league tells a completely different story.

 

[stl76]

Never said that, just that they are comparable. They are having identical seasons right now. Their career PPG is almost the same. They are the same age, play the same position. Batherson makes 3+ million less a year. I cant help it if you are incapable of being remotely objective.

Oh ok. So in your view they are even players, and you’re saying one has a better contract and plays with a physical edge. But you aren’t saying Batherson > Kyrou tho, you’re only very strongly implying it.

 

[bert]

Oh ok. So in your view they are even players, and you’re saying one has a better contract and plays with a physical edge. But you aren’t saying Batherson > Kyrou tho, you’re only very strongly implying it.

Its a lateral move. I'll take the cheaper player. Batherson has never been boo'd by his fan base we know that. Both are good skill wingers not what you build a franchise around.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why are so many people severely underrating Thomas? Teams don't win cups without having legit #1 centers and Thomas is one of those. He's on pace for 90+ points while playing a great defensive game. He's also only 24 and locked into a great contract for for his entire prime until he's 31. Trading him opens a massive hole on the team and would put the Blues into the perpetual rebuilder camp.

There's a reason almost all the top centers of all time have cups and a lot of the best power forward wingers of all time have none (K.Tkachuk, Iginla, Rick Nash). Those guys are great pieces to have for sure, but they almost always need a #1 center playing with them to find playoff success.

Blues could do Kyrou with significant plusses for Brady but Thomas is a non-starter. And if that means no deal gets done then so be it.

Im not sure it’s really people underrating Thomas as much as it’s Sens fans massively overrating Tkachuck.

Sure he’s a rare player in the sense that he hits and fights a lot while also being able to score.

But realistically, fighting means so little in today’s neutered NHL. He’s a physical 70ish pt player who’s kind of a liability defensively and with all this talk of his “leadership”, he keeps “leading” the Sens to disappointments the past few years.

Add in the fact that physical forwards seem to take a nosedive offensively in todays NHL at an early age and he’s in no way close to Thomas in value.