Confirmed with Link: [AZ/OTT] Jakob Chychrun in exchange for a conditional first in ’23, a conditional second in ’24, & a 2nd in ‘26

[TheLegend]

Two firsts are two firsts, not one first. Nobody expected a two firsts in the top 5 but we shouldn't have expected 2 firsts at 27-32 either, the top 5 teams are likely set and think they have a shot at the cup anyway without the ransom ask for Chych. The range was always more likely 15-25. Let's call it two firsts at the 20th pick. We are getting one first at the 15ish spot, maybe a bit higher or lower. That is a big miss from BAs expectations any way you slice it.

Speak for yourself. There was plenty of talk about two getting 2023 firsts here.

You can spin this as negative as you like but @hbk and I see it differently. And there's enough examples out there to back our position up.

 

[Mangosteen]

This trade officially is worse than the Selanne trade. May go down as one of the worst in the NHL history. Glad he drug Chyc through this and our dressing room for a year and a half. You can’t offer UFA or RFA enough money to sign here if we had any. Even if we begin a new arena again this smells exactly the same as before.

 

[Jamieh]

One first @12-16 is more valuable as a potential player than two at 25-32, sure. And it's true that the value at the low end of the draft is really not great (like marginally better than a 2nd if at all). But mid firsts really aren't worth much either in absolute terms. They don't reliably turn into first line talents. They don't even reliably turn into top 6 quality forwards.

But also that wasn't even the rumored price, we're comparing our real deal to what was positioned by the Coyotes camp, which was two of those late firsts and a prospect of some quality. We didn't get that in any way. You can maybe sooth yourself by repeating the "this draft so great/deep" mantra and hoping we luck into a 2003 draft with first liners floating around all over the place. But that's a lot of eggs in that basket with only one real asset of note coming back.

We didn't get an asset back that as a clear path (or even an unlikely path) to actually replacing Chychrun's value. I'm calling that a failure, that settle or option A is slightly better than settle for option B is academic.


As for the BA supposedly being the initiator of the trade not the Chychrun camp, hey it's certainly possible but it's 1: contrary to all reporting prior to yesterday. 2. could be true in the abstract but the reality is there are many many ways a player can make it known they want out, without outright calling up the GM and telling him to do it. That BA was the first (well reportedly, these after trade reports in the media are often crap) to actually have a meeting and discuss the matter is not necessarily the same as initiating this thing.

Every report I've ever seen or heard has said that Bill approached Chychrun and asked if he wanted out as a big teardown was coming. Chychrun thought it over and answered that he would welcome a trade to a team closer to winning.

They're in about the same situation we are. But the "hockey media" above a certain parallel gives them the occasional hall pass.



I think the way BA saw it was..... 1 mid 2023 1st round pick >>>>>> 2 late 2023 1sts

He could have gone for two late firsts, but then would have had a much harder time trading up at the draft.

Ottawa gets roasted for low attendance, arena location, and previous Owner similar to Coyotes. They don't get it for bankruptcy and not paying bills....well because.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

This trade officially is worse than the Selanne trade. May go down as one of the worst in the NHL history. Glad he drug Chyc through this and our dressing room for a year and a half. You can’t offer UFA or RFA enough money to sign here if we had any. Even if we begin a new arena again this smells exactly the same as before.

Hyperbole much?

 

[Mangosteen]

Had to google that ja ja ja. Nope, this was brutal. Plain and simple.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

How we all doing today? Still pissed?

 

[Summer Rose]

How we all doing today? Still pissed?

I am calm.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I am calm.

 

[rt]

This trade officially is worse than the Selanne trade. May go down as one of the worst in the NHL history. Glad he drug Chyc through this and our dressing room for a year and a half. You can’t offer UFA or RFA enough money to sign here if we had any. Even if we begin a new arena again this smells exactly the same as before.

I’m sure Bjugstad and Ghost and even Chychrun are quite happy. Seems like a fine place for UFA to come, get quality minutes, and go to contender at the deadline. With a lot of extra tee times thrown into the bargain.

How we all doing today? Still pissed?

Not that pissed. More worried about whether team is going to go out of business than I am about trades that are mildly less than expected.

 

[rt]

Listen to the marek interview with BA:



He says their price never changed. Two late firsts and a 2nd or one good first and two seconds.

He says they wouldn’t take bad contracts back because he wants to save that for the off-season where they get two 2nds for those kinds of contracts.

^ Clearly GMs wanted to dump for free.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Listen to the marek interview with BA:



He says their price never changed. Two late firsts and a 2nd or one good first and two seconds.

He says they wouldn’t take bad contracts back because he wants to save that for the off-season where they get two 2nds for those kinds of contracts.

^ Clearly GMs wanted to dump for free.

If BA is to be believed, his reason for not taking back cap or retaining relieves some of my stress.

It makes sense, but is still not a great look along with all the dead contracts we keep picking up

 

[rt]

If BA is to be believed, his reason for not taking back cap or retaining relieves some of my stress.

It makes sense, but is still not a great look along with all the dead contracts we keep picking up

I highly recommend you listen to it, if you haven’t. He speaks quite plainly about it.

 

[cobra427]

Listen to the marek interview with BA:



He says their price never changed. Two late firsts and a 2nd or one good first and two seconds.

He says they wouldn’t take bad contracts back because he wants to save that for the off-season where they get two 2nds for those kinds of contracts.

^ Clearly GMs wanted to dump for free.

BA with some CYA

 

[Mangosteen]

Dorion's trade for Chychrun isn't just a home run for the Senators — it's a grand slam

Pierre Dorion waited and waited for the price to drop, and his patience paid off as the Senators landed big-fish Jakob Chychrun without giving up a player.

www.sportsnet.ca

Sens GM is saying the opposite. Has a good breakdown of what happened. Very possible.

 

[cobra427]

Dorion's trade for Chychrun isn't just a home run for the Senators — it's a grand slam

Pierre Dorion waited and waited for the price to drop, and his patience paid off as the Senators landed big-fish Jakob Chychrun without giving up a player.

www.sportsnet.ca

Sens GM is saying the opposite. Has a good breakdown of what happened. Very possible.

"Senators general manager Pierre Dorion waited long enough for the Coyotes’ price to drop. And instead of giving up a top prospect and two first-round draft choices to land Chychrun, Arizona settled for a *conditional 2023 first-round pick, a conditional 2024 second-round pick (formerly Washington’s pick) and a 2026 second-round pick."

BA did not get anything close to what he wanted, over valued Chych, like I have been saying for months, until the trade then reality set in.

 

[rt]

Dorion's trade for Chychrun isn't just a home run for the Senators — it's a grand slam

Pierre Dorion waited and waited for the price to drop, and his patience paid off as the Senators landed big-fish Jakob Chychrun without giving up a player.

www.sportsnet.ca

Sens GM is saying the opposite. Has a good breakdown of what happened. Very possible.

Devil is in the details. No timeline from Dorion on prospect vs pick focus and no indication of draft year.

BA was very candid in saying he’d refuse the Ottawa offer in October because he needed more pick certainty. If Dorion is referencing older conversations, or conversations about draft picks several years out, he’s not contradicting BA at all.

If you haven’t listened to the Marek interview and subsequent monologue, I can’t recommend it enough. Changed my whole outlook. No joke.

 

[rt]

Looks natural.

 

[TheLegend]

Ottawa gets roasted for low attendance, arena location, and previous Owner similar to Coyotes. They don't get it for bankruptcy and not paying bills....well because.

I read the same publications ya know.

 

[RABBIT]

 

[Coyotes19c]

Devil is in the details. No timeline from Dorion on prospect vs pick focus and no indication of draft year.

BA was very candid in saying he’d refuse the Ottawa offer in October because he needed more pick certainty. If Dorion is referencing older conversations, or conversations about draft picks several years out, he’s not contradicting BA at all.

If you haven’t listened to the Marek interview and subsequent monologue, I can’t recommend it enough. Changed my whole outlook. No joke.

Do you have the link?

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Yeah cool hope he's happy. And I hope the Sens don't sniff anything above mediocrity for the next 2 years

 

[BAdvocate]

And for reference, I recommend folks see the Conor Geekie trade. It cost us 27th, 34th and 45th to get to 11th.

On one hand negative Nancy's won't accept that as an objective assessment of value since BA was involved ("BA could have traded less to move up to 11 but he's a terrible GM")

On the other hand that was to move up to pick 11 in the 2022 draft. One could make the argument it would cost more in the 2023 draft to acquire 11 overall.

 

[jmichael7753]

After hearing BA in that interview, my nerves have been relieved a bit hearing he is saying taking on money for the off season. His reasoning totally makes sense.

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

Chicago set the market at the deadline for taking back contracts. BA didn’t like it and said I’ll wait til the off-season when everyone thinks they’re in. Except us.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Yes, interview relieved a lot of nerves...they've got a plan and sticking too it. I will however first one to throw the entire "tire fire" if they trade core players or 1st line players ala Schmaltz.