Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII

[agentblack]

Orpik straight up rejected us, as did Stralman. They got super desperate and went after Stuart. At least i think thats how it played out.

 

[Balthazar]

Orpik straight up rejected us, as did Stralman. They got super desperate and went after Stuart. At least i think thats how it played out.

I'd really want to know if we made an offer to Niskanen, who was the youngest defenseman of that UFA class. Not sure what kind of impact he'd have here but he did become 1D for the best team in the NHL.

 

[agentblack]

I'd really want to know if we made an offer to Niskanen, who was the youngest defenseman of that UFA class. Not sure what kind of impact he'd have here but he did become 1D for the best team in the NHL.

I cant imagine it would have beaten the Caps offer.
You get to stay in the east, get paid , and play for a cup. um where do i sign?

 

[Balthazar]

I cant imagine it would have beaten the Caps offer.
You get to stay in the east, get paid , and play for a cup. um where do i sign?

FWIW, when Niskanen signed the AVS just had a 112 pts season while the Caps had 90 and missed the playoffs

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'd do Hanifin for our 1st round pick.

I'm not so sure Carolina makes that move, especially if the pick is 2nd overall.

There's no way they do that. We don't want Patrick desperately but yet someone else does?

I'm really not looking forward to the next 3 months of crazy and unrealistic scenarios that are going to magically fix all of our problems. But, dream on.

 

[McMetal]

Not sure if this has been discussed or not, just a thought I had today.


If the Avs end up with the #1 or #2 pick in the draft, and Carolina comes offering Noah Hanifin straight up for the pick, does anyone do it?


Personally, I think I would. Love Hanifin as a D and that would instantly fill the biggest need this team has.


Up until the last week or so I probably wouldn't be willing to do it because I had felt like we still had a serious need for a #2C behind Mack when Duchene is inevitably traded. But after watching Jost/Compher the last few games I'm now quite confident between the two of them we have a very good future 2C.



IMO the trade actually makes sense for both sides as well. Carolina Needs a #1C and with that #1/#2 pick they'd be able to take one of Patrick/Hischier for that future role.



Avs can then just look to move Duchene for the best package of futures they can get, without having to look specifically for a Dman in the deal and instead could get a high end forward prospect + picks. Something like Colin White + OTT 2018 1st, Fabbro + Fiala + NSH 1st, Dubois + CBJ 1st, or whatever package they get.

If we do move our first for Hanifin (which I would do, but don't expect), why exactly would we need to move Duchene? I have a feeling Sakic could sit him down, tell him that Hanifin was the defenseman he needed and that he wants to re-sign him, and Duchene would come right back into the fold. And if you're going to come back and say there's no way that's true, you literally have exactly the same amount of knowledge about Duchene's headspace as I do.

 

[Pokecheque]

Orpik straight up rejected us, as did Stralman. They got super desperate and went after Stuart. At least i think thats how it played out.

I thought the desperation move was Iginla.

 

[Wintersun]

If we do move our first for Hanifin (which I would do, but don't expect), why exactly would we need to move Duchene? I have a feeling Sakic could sit him down, tell him that Hanifin was the defenseman he needed and that he wants to re-sign him, and Duchene would come right back into the fold. And if you're going to come back and say there's no way that's true, you literally have exactly the same amount of knowledge about Duchene's headspace as I do.

I'd do that straight up, no doubt. I don't think a line-up that looks like :

Andrighetto - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Compher - Duchene
Greer - Jost - Nieto
Colborne - Soderberg - Comeau

Hanifin - EJ
Zadorov - Barrie
Bigras/Lindholm - Mironov

Varly

is a bad line-up. It will have its growing pains but it's not a bad line-up at all. Top 9 looks like a top 9 (Could still be improved, but it's still pretty decent to me), top 4 looks like a top 4.

Really depends on where Duchene's head is at about the Avs.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Duchene is 100% gone, IMO. At this point, you could ask him what the weather is like and he'll find a way to talk about leaving the Avalanche. His head, and his heart, are a long way from Denver. It's just time to go.

 

[henchman21]

Duchene is 100% gone, IMO. At this point, you could ask him what the weather is like and he'll find a way to talk about leaving the Avalanche. His head, and his heart, are a long way from Denver. It's just time to go.

He really should be, but I wouldn't put it past Sakic to hold off...

 

[Avs71]

What a strange season this was. From Roy disappearing mid summer, hiring what seemed like a great coach, the rumours the front office knew this season was a write off, vets being shunned from the start, and a total collapse of the team.

Got me thinking about the "season being a write of,f" and I wonder if that was actually the full intention, but not to this extent. If they played with fire and it got away from them, and it spread so bad that it's burned up the core.

Perhaps Bednar was preferred over the other candidates because he was okay with coming in and stripping Iginla and McLeod of their A's, playing Rantanen and Zadorov (and other call ups and young guys), and possibly have a terrible (doubt he imagined this bad) record. If it meant a fresh team the following season.

I don't know. It'll have cost them Duchene and a ton of fans, but perhaps they are not as clueless as it seems up their in their office. One can hope.

 

[tigervixxxen]

we'll never know but I think they fully thought a few vet plugs plus their core could keep them on the playoff bubble. It's not like much is needed to tread around 22nd place. But when the month of December rolled around and they didn't make a transaction other than warm body filling for a month and just watched the ship sail off the cliff I'll never really understand.

 

[Ararana]

Roster-wise we really weren't all that different from the team that practically handed Minnesota a playoff spot last season.

The team was built for Roy's system, the vets couldn't hang with Bednar's system. I think that's the big difference. I also seriously question if Bednar is in over his head.

The EJ and Varly injuries certainly didn't help anything.

 

[Pokecheque]

we'll never know but I think they fully thought a few vet plugs plus their core could keep them on the playoff bubble. It's not like much is needed to tread around 22nd place. But when the month of December rolled around and they didn't make a transaction other than warm body filling for a month and just watched the ship sail off the cliff I'll never really understand.

Agreed. I think they honestly just sat on their hands because they didn't know what else to do.

 

[Goulet17]

He really should be, but I wouldn't put it past Sakic to hold off...

It has to be the right deal. I think it is difficult to rationalize trading Duchene simply for the sake of trading him. If he has asked for a trade, it may change the dynamic. Based on some of his demeanor and comments, he may very well have requested to be traded no later than this Summer.

In any event, if teams are offering you pennies on the dollar, you can't pull the trigger.

 

[henchman21]

It has to be the right deal. I think it is difficult to rationalize trading Duchene simply for the sake of trading him. If he has asked for a trade, it may change the dynamic. Based on some of his demeanor and comments, he may very well have requested to be traded no later than this Summer.

In any event, if teams are offering you pennies on the dollar, you can't pull the trigger.

Sakic is dealing with a depreciating asset that is becoming disgruntled... they have already lost a ton of value waiting for the 'right' deal, waiting longer will likely make that loss of value even greater.

 

[Pokecheque]

I just feel like Sakic isn't even seeking out a deal, he's just sitting there waiting for some crazy offer to come in.

I think the truth is that we will not see a deal done with Duchene until at LEAST after the expansion draft. No way does it happen before then.

Either way, I hope the speculation ends. Either get a damn deal done this season or announce that he's not up for grabs anymore.

 

[Goulet17]

Sakic is dealing with a depreciating asset that is becoming disgruntled... they have already lost a ton of value waiting for the 'right' deal, waiting longer will likely make that loss of value even greater.

Trading him now feels like a move just to make a move.

I believe that if the Avs trade him around the draft, the return will be extremely disappointing. Teams will be looking to fleece Sakic and the Avs.

It seems like a reactionary, panic move that a stable organization would never make.

I feel like I have seen this song and dance before, and many of the posters that are clamoring for Duchene to be traded will be the same ones hysterical over how Sakic could have traded Duchene for such a low return.

 

[Goulet17]

I guess my final thought on the matter is that I understand the desire to see a trade involving Duchene, however, I am frustrated but what I think is a disconnect over what the return will be if Sakic pulls the trigger this Summer. In my mind, if you are fine with trading Duchene in a significant "loss" trade in terms of value, then great. I am not at that particular point and I still think he is an organizational asset. I feel like the Avs would be trading Duchene at his lowest point in terms of trade value. I do understand that as his contract term diminishes, that will impact his value, but I don't think that warrants rushing the decision as of right now.

 

[henchman21]

Trading him now feels like a move just to make a move.

I believe that if the Avs trade him around the draft, the return will be extremely disappointing. Teams will be looking to fleece Sakic and the Avs.

It seems like a reactionary, panic move that a stable organization would never make.

I feel like I have seen this song and dance before, and many of the posters that are clamoring for Duchene to be traded will be the same ones hysterical over how Sakic could have traded Duchene for such a low return.

I personally am expecting a rather low return. Teams are not going to pay through the nose for Duchene after the season he has had. I don't think we can call it a panic move when by the time the expansion draft rolls around Duchene will have been on the block for 18+ months. Sakic just overplayed his hand and has lost.

We have seen a similar situation play out in Vancouver with Lou... that is the last time I remember a high profile player being on the trading block for so long, and it completely bit Vancouver in the ass. I'd argue it already has here too. There have been good offers for Duchene in the past, but a great one isn't coming this summer. I really doubt a great one will come next season either. A disgruntled and mentally checked out Duchene isn't going to pile on the points, we have seen that this season. I just don't see the value improving here.

 

[McMetal]

Duchene is 100% gone, IMO. At this point, you could ask him what the weather is like and he'll find a way to talk about leaving the Avalanche. His head, and his heart, are a long way from Denver. It's just time to go.

I think the narrative is getting way ahead of reality. Everything he says and does is reinterpreted until it comes out to "Duchene wants to go", when there is really, truly no evidence to support that. He has never said anything to that effect, not once.

 

[Avs44]

I personally am expecting a rather low return. Teams are not going to pay through the nose for Duchene after the season he has had. I don't think we can call it a panic move when by the time the expansion draft rolls around Duchene will have been on the block for 18+ months. Sakic just overplayed his hand and has lost.

We have seen a similar situation play out in Vancouver with Lou... that is the last time I remember a high profile player being on the trading block for so long, and it completely bit Vancouver in the ass. I'd argue it already has here too. There have been good offers for Duchene in the past, but a great one isn't coming this summer. I really doubt a great one will come next season either. A disgruntled and mentally checked out Duchene isn't going to pile on the points, we have seen that this season. I just don't see the value improving here.

What do you think a realistic package would look like?

 

[UncleRisto]

I think the narrative is getting way ahead of reality. Everything he says and does is reinterpreted until it comes out to "Duchene wants to go", when there is really, truly no evidence to support that. He has never said anything to that effect, not once.

Do you expect him to tell media in an interview he wants out? Nobody has ever done that. You believe in your preferred narrative just like anybody else, nobody knows what's really going down.

 

[henchman21]

What do you think a realistic package would look like?

Young D (solid, but not top pairing or #1 potential) + B prospect + late 1st

 

[ABasin]

I personally am expecting a rather low return. Teams are not going to pay through the nose for Duchene after the season he has had. I don't think we can call it a panic move when by the time the expansion draft rolls around Duchene will have been on the block for 18+ months. Sakic just overplayed his hand and has lost.

We have seen a similar situation play out in Vancouver with Lou... that is the last time I remember a high profile player being on the trading block for so long, and it completely bit Vancouver in the ass. I'd argue it already has here too. There have been good offers for Duchene in the past, but a great one isn't coming this summer. I really doubt a great one will come next season either. A disgruntled and mentally checked out Duchene isn't going to pile on the points, we have seen that this season. I just don't see the value improving here.

I don't disagree here, though I wonder if the same can't be said for just about every Avs player. Just about any of them would be sold low, given the season they're having. A couple of exceptions perhaps, but not many.