Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII
- Thread starter SoundwaveIsCharisma
- Start date
- Status
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,203
- 37,463
Mike Evans is going off on twitter again lol. Says he said to Roy's face off the air last year that the entire core is overrated and he said Roy agreed.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 52,179
- 56,434
Overrated by whom though? Fans? Sakic? Media?
Roy knew the team was ****, which is why he quit.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
- 67,095
- 53,591
Evans is loudmouth that likes to hear himself talk, but he is right that the core is overrated.
Kinda... he quit because he couldn't make the changes he felt were necessary for the team to win and was setup for a no win situation.
Kinda... he quit because he couldn't make the changes he felt were necessary for the team to win and was setup for a no win situation.
Foppberg
Registered User
Yeah, outside of MacKinnon and Rantanen, I don't see Barrie/Duchene/Landeskog as guys you want to build around. Great players mind you, but not the nucleus of a team. When we had the depth of Landeskog/Duchene/ROR/Stastny/MacKinnon it worked because of depth, not because of high high end talent.
Last edited:
- Apr 25, 2006
- 52,179
- 56,434
I hope to see him coaching another NHL team. People blamed him for the awful Corsi but maybe the team was just **** all along and he squeezed more out of that bunch of players than most other coach would have been able to? Who knows.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,661
- 32,031
I doubt Roy had any problems with guys like Landeskog or ROR. They played the right way, and did everything he asked of them.
I imagine he meant the offensive guys like Duchene, Barrie, and to an extent EJ because he's good but not good enough to be a #1 carrying a bunch of scrubs. Foote knew this, and essentially said it years ago, right around when Roy took over I think. That EJ needs to be surrounded with help on the backend, not asked to do it all.
They're more complementary players, than core players. I think that's probably what he meant.
I imagine he meant the offensive guys like Duchene, Barrie, and to an extent EJ because he's good but not good enough to be a #1 carrying a bunch of scrubs. Foote knew this, and essentially said it years ago, right around when Roy took over I think. That EJ needs to be surrounded with help on the backend, not asked to do it all.
They're more complementary players, than core players. I think that's probably what he meant.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
The local media guys have no grasp of the concept that you have to build a team. They think it's like basketball where your stars carry you. so when they rail on the 3-4 names they can even think of that are on this team it's so hollow. I would say anyone that failed to see the importance of committing to building over short term feel good success lost the plot.
Former Ladder
Thanks Noob Noob
I said that last yearI guess it's really really this time.
Just like there is no way Chicago is going to stay competitive because of the cap. Next year they will be done winning so much for sure!
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
- 67,095
- 53,591
Yep... as long as these cores continue to play well, the depth can be found. Towes and Kane probably have 3-4+ good years left. Keith, Hammer, and Seabrook are the bigger questions... when they fall off, Chicago will.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 52,179
- 56,434
I refuse to blame Barrie because he came out of nowhere. Barrie was never supposed to become a top pairing nor a top offensive dman in the NHL. He was a very late 2nd round pick, most guys picked at this position don't even make it to the NHL. Fans often forget that. EJ should have been significantly better, if anything.
As for Duchene, the guy is just mentally weak. I gave him the benefit of the doubt during the past years when he went "snake bitten" for very long streaks but the state of his (lack of) mental toughness has been exposed after the trade deadline this year. It's not his fault but that's a fact. When something bothers him he stops producing.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,661
- 32,031
It's not about draft position though. They expected Barrie to be a core player, and they're paying him like one. He's a decent offensive defenseman, but he needs to be surrounded with equally good or better players. He has too many holes in his game, and doesn't have the mentality to be a go to player that carries the team.
That's why he, just like Duchene, needs to be in a role on a team where they're not expected to be the go to guy. They're complimentary guys not core players.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 52,179
- 56,434
From when? Barrie was literally pushed into that role because he had unexpected success offensively during the miracle year. Fans started blaming him because he wasn't as good defensively as "he should", but hey, they are fans.
If Roy and Sakic thought he was a core player back then the problem is right there. Barrie was nothing short of a bonus to this team until he signed that contract last summer.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,661
- 32,031
Many people here thought Barrie was better than he is. People would routinely say that he was fine defensively. The coach's and management thought highly of him even before 2013-14. They traded Liles because they thought Barrie and Elliott were the future. They kept pushing Barrie onto the team to get him to be that guy, but it wasn't until Roy unceremoniously put him in the minors to focus on his game, that he finally learned how to be an NHLer.
He didn't just come out of nowhere in 2013-14 and get pushed into the role he's now because of it. That'w what they wanted, and expected. That's why Sakic paid him $5.5M instead of trading him.
Last edited:
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
- 50,551
- 17,614
Avs core needs either to be big (as it was with O'Reilly and Stastny here) or surrounded by good depth.
Both things have been pulled away from the core the last coupled of years. While they are obvious scape goats and deserve criticism for being rather weak this year, it's not on them.
If Jost, Rantanen, Bigras, Zadorov and the waiver boys can support them better, perhaps this team will start on the path to something.
Both things have been pulled away from the core the last coupled of years. While they are obvious scape goats and deserve criticism for being rather weak this year, it's not on them.
If Jost, Rantanen, Bigras, Zadorov and the waiver boys can support them better, perhaps this team will start on the path to something.
Avsblitzkrieg
Registered User
I was on the fire wagon. But you're right. I think bednar is proof positive. I very well could have been wrong about Roy. I'll take my shame now.
While i'm not going to disagree with this statement, he definitely helped the team become **** with some of the trades and signings he pushed for.
Not sure if this has been discussed or not, just a thought I had today.
If the Avs end up with the #1 or #2 pick in the draft, and Carolina comes offering Noah Hanifin straight up for the pick, does anyone do it?
Personally, I think I would. Love Hanifin as a D and that would instantly fill the biggest need this team has.
Up until the last week or so I probably wouldn't be willing to do it because I had felt like we still had a serious need for a #2C behind Mack when Duchene is inevitably traded. But after watching Jost/Compher the last few games I'm now quite confident between the two of them we have a very good future 2C.
IMO the trade actually makes sense for both sides as well. Carolina Needs a #1C and with that #1/#2 pick they'd be able to take one of Patrick/Hischier for that future role.
Avs can then just look to move Duchene for the best package of futures they can get, without having to look specifically for a Dman in the deal and instead could get a high end forward prospect + picks. Something like Colin White + OTT 2018 1st, Fabbro + Fiala + NSH 1st, Dubois + CBJ 1st, or whatever package they get.
If the Avs end up with the #1 or #2 pick in the draft, and Carolina comes offering Noah Hanifin straight up for the pick, does anyone do it?
Personally, I think I would. Love Hanifin as a D and that would instantly fill the biggest need this team has.
Up until the last week or so I probably wouldn't be willing to do it because I had felt like we still had a serious need for a #2C behind Mack when Duchene is inevitably traded. But after watching Jost/Compher the last few games I'm now quite confident between the two of them we have a very good future 2C.
IMO the trade actually makes sense for both sides as well. Carolina Needs a #1C and with that #1/#2 pick they'd be able to take one of Patrick/Hischier for that future role.
Avs can then just look to move Duchene for the best package of futures they can get, without having to look specifically for a Dman in the deal and instead could get a high end forward prospect + picks. Something like Colin White + OTT 2018 1st, Fabbro + Fiala + NSH 1st, Dubois + CBJ 1st, or whatever package they get.
dahrougem2
Registered User
I'd do Hanifin for our 1st round pick.
I'm not so sure Carolina makes that move, especially if the pick is 2nd overall.
I'm not so sure Carolina makes that move, especially if the pick is 2nd overall.
agentblack
Registered User
Id do it. But id really need that Dutchess trade to give us a 1st back. Then we can draft Suzuki
I'd be fine with the Duchene trade being a 2018 1st that we get back. That draft continues to look super deep. And while I'm not someone who thinks this draft is terrible(It's not), next years is definitely deeper and we aren't in a major rush to contend. I think we're likely a bottom 5-10 team again next season and having a Top 10 1st next year + potentially another 11-20 range 1st from a team like Ottawa, Nashville, NYI, etc. would allow us to get two really good prospects out of that draft.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 52,179
- 56,434
Reading the main board...Caps fans are saying Matt Niskanen is their best dman (ahead of Carlson, who's also very good). I remember back when he was UFA a bunch of us wanted him badly...that was the summer after the miracle year. We apparently made a huge offer to Orpik instead (who, fortunately, turned it down) and ultimately ended up extending Brad Stuart. Good times.
- Status
