Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII

[McMetal]

You really don't want him to go, do you..?

Not necessarily. But I don't think it's an absolute requirement, either. If we can get the defensive help we need from him in a trade, yes, trade him. But it has to be the right deal. I am absolutely against trading him for minor pieces or pieces we don't need just because some people think we have to. We are not an asset-rich organization and can't afford to sell a core piece for less than what he's worth.

What I'm pushing back against is the idea that there is an urgency to trade Duchene for anything. The narrative that Duchene is the one pushing for a trade or hoping for one is flimsy at best. If your justification for a trade is "We have no choice", then I'm going to disagree on that, because yes, we do. Keeping him is absolutely an option, whether it's because we can't get a fair price, we get the pieces we need from other sources, or simply because we don't feel like it. Trading him for a good return that solidifies our top 4 is also an option. But it is NOT the only one.

 

[henchman21]

Keeping a player that is constantly in trade rumors for years up on years is always a bad situation. It creates nothing but a toxic situation all around, and that will tank a season before it even begins. Duchene is mentally fragile enough, another summer and first half season of speculation would lead to a lot of toxicity in the relationship. I'm not saying trade him for just a 2nd or anything, but scrap together a deal to the best of your ability and move on. It is best for all parties to just cut the cord.

 

[UncleRisto]

Murray and CBJ's first or something like that would be a nice addition to the team even if it's not the sexiest move. Add Murray on the left side and Mironov on the right and the defense takes steps in the right direction.

 

[Avs44]

Murray+ would work for me. It would be a defense with question marks all over it and pretty haphazard still going into next year, but I think Murray might have the potential to be a decent partner for EJ with the right steps forward. EJ needs someone who's steady and can move the puck, not someone who's high risk / high reward, sometimes like himself.

 

[CoachBadkitten]

I'd love any way to get Murray and Dubois, I know it's probably unlikely considering how much Dutchy has fallen last couple months. Maybe something like Duchene + Bigras (if the Avs truly have given up on him).

 

[Avs_19]

Some of these deals people would settle for are pretty bad. We're talking defensemen who haven't even consistently played well in the top four and a mid/late 1st round pick.

 

[Avs44]

Some of these deals people would settle for are pretty bad. We're talking defensemen who haven't even consistently played well in the top four and a mid/late 1st round pick.

We have to face the fact as well that we're talking about trading a badly struggling forward who is years removed from his peak PPG season (and 70+ point lockout pace before that), who has been on the block for a year+ and hasn't garnered the ideal return Sakic has wanted, who doesn't seem to want to stick around, etc. He has good value - he'll be a great top six player for some team for years - but with youth movements around the league and the salary cap, it doesn't look like they are getting some star prospect+ back, or a top young defender+. Hence looking at good young defenders as centrepieces instead. Not great, but probably the most realistic option right now.

 

[Bender]

Call me crazy but I don't think anything significant gets added onto Ekholm from Nashville after the season Duchene has had.

For me, any deal with Nashville would NEED to include Ekholm, Fiala and Fabbro.

Ekholm - Top-4 LHD to play on second pairing
Fiala - quick and stocky sniper / will break-out soon-ish (I've said it before, this is the time to acquire him...he's going to take a step next year, imo)
Fabbro - Top defensive prospect / Jost BFF

If you look at Nashville's expansion draft situation (https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft) it makes a ton of sense for them and allows them to go 7-3-1 instead of forcing 4-4-1 and risk losing Jarnkrok or Wilson. They are a factory for drafting solid, young d-men anyways...they'd be fine and all the while upgrading significantly at center.

For the Avs, Ekholm could be a really good partner for Barrie. At worst, he's a solid #4 guy who can play 20+ minutes per game.

Fiala is a fleet footed winger who fits the Avs to a tee. I won't lie...I'm a huge, huge fan of this guy and we absolutely need some good wingers on this club.

Fabbro is also another one of my favourites, he's progressing well at BU.

The Predators are in win-now mode. They don't have a lot of holes in their lineup...their time is now.

 

[dahrougem2]

For me, any deal with Nashville would NEED to include Ekholm, Fiala and Fabbro.

Ekholm - Top-4 LHD to play on second pairing
Fiala - quick and stocky sniper / will break-out soon-ish (I've said it before, this is the time to acquire him...he's going to take a step next year, imo)
Fabbro - Top defensive prospect / Jost BFF

If you look at Nashville's expansion draft situation (https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft) it makes a ton of sense for them and allows them to go 7-3-1 instead of forcing 4-4-1 and risk losing Jarnkrok or Wilson. They are a factory for drafting solid, young d-men anyways...they'd be fine and all the while upgrading significantly at center.

For the Avs, Ekholm could be a really good partner for Barrie. At worst, he's a solid #4 guy who can play 20+ minutes per game.

Fiala is a fleet footed winger who fits the Avs to a tee. I won't lie...I'm a huge, huge fan of this guy and we absolutely need some good wingers on this club.

Fabbro is also another one of my favourites, he's progressing well at BU.

The Predators are in win-now mode. They don't have a lot of holes in their lineup...their time is now.

I just don't think the Predators are going to be willing to trade ALL of those pieces for Matt Duchene. Mikhail Grigorenko sucks, so his inclusion in the deal is practically worthless.

It's a trade within the division, so the Avs would probably ask for more from Nashville than teams outside of the division but I have a hard time seeing the Predators ever offering something like this deal.

 

[Bender]

I just don't think the Predators are going to be willing to trade ALL of those pieces for Matt Duchene. Mikhail Grigorenko sucks, so his inclusion in the deal is practically worthless.

It's a trade within the division, so the Avs would probably ask for more from Nashville than teams outside of the division but I have a hard time seeing the Predators ever offering something like this deal.

To me it is the difference between trying to become a team that can win it all or not having that foresight and just hoping the prospects you have will come in and be ready sooner rather than later.

As I said, making this move allows them to change their expansion draft strategy unless they are planning on going 7-3-1 regardless and leaving one of Ekholm or Ellis unprotected? I doubt it.

Fiala is a very good prospect that I'm really high on but for the moment, he's just not playing a huge role on that team as a 20/21 year old. He's further down the depth chart because of guys like Neal, Arvidsson (<-wow what a season!) and Forsberg.

Fabbro is probably playing at least another year at BU before turning pro...that's not helping them right now either.

They already have wingers in their system who could turn out to be pretty good...Kamenev, Aberg but they still need center like Duchene to compliment Johansen in order to reach the next level, imo.

Adding Duchene to Johansen down the middle improves the Predators a ton.

If I'm David Poile and that deal is on the table considering the team that I have right now, I make that deal and I believe...it's a good trade for both sides.

 

[Avs_19]

We have to face the fact as well that we're talking about trading a badly struggling forward who is years removed from his peak PPG season (and 70+ point lockout pace before that), who has been on the block for a year+ and hasn't garnered the ideal return Sakic has wanted, who doesn't seem to want to stick around, etc. He has good value - he'll be a great top six player for some team for years - but with youth movements around the league and the salary cap, it doesn't look like they are getting some star prospect+ back, or a top young defender+. Hence looking at good young defenders as centrepieces instead. Not great, but probably the most realistic option right now.

I agree his value has taken a hit but I don't think it's to the point where we'd have to accept some of these names getting brought up. That's just trading Duchene for the sake of trading him.

If the Avs want someone like CDH, they can probably acquire him without giving up Duchene because of the expansion draft.

 

[dahrougem2]

If I'm David Poile and that deal is on the table considering the team that I have right now, I make that deal and I believe...it's a good trade for both sides.

I guess this is where we disagree, because if I'm David Poile and Sakic comes asking for Ekholm, Fiala, and Fabbro for Duchene and a useless Grigorenko I'm not accepting that trade.

 

[McMetal]

I actually wouldn't hate the Ekholm-Fiala-Fabbro deal. Ekholm is a solid defenseman, Fiala would help mitigate a bit of the loss of Duchene up front, and Fabbro is a longer term project but could be a Barrie replacement on the back end by the time Barrie's deal is up. I'd prefer fewer pieces back with higher upside, especially on defense, but if that were the best they could do I wouldn't go flipping tables.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I'm with Bender on this. I've said for a while also that NAS makes a lot of sense for a Duchene deal. Ekholm, Fiala and Fabro would be a very good return for Duchene+. At minimum I would want Ekholm, Fabbro and 2nd for Duchene alone.

 

[5280]

Dutchy would LOVE playing in Nashville. That place is right up his alley. I still have my heart set on Hanifin for some reason. Carolina makes too much sense to me.

 

[falconski]

I'm just gonna laugh about ROR to Toronto making to the main boards now (btw OP was calling ROR overrated in the ROR for Zads+grigerenko thread)

 

[tigervixxxen]

Dutchy would LOVE playing in Nashville. That place is right up his alley. I still have my heart set on Hanifin for some reason. Carolina makes too much sense to me.

They definitely have the pieces but it's not their window. Two years of Duchene doesn't do much for them. I think of it like OEL, we'd LOVE to have him but what would you give up for only two guaranteed years? Mikko? Jost?

 

[Foppberg]

Nashville is a team I'd love to make a deal with.

Ekholm + Fiala + 2nd?

Fiala + Fabbro + ?

 

[Balthazar]

Let's see...

Ekholm is:

- 2nd pairing defenseman
- 4+ years older than Ryan Murray
- older than Matt Duchene.

Yep, that makes perfect sense!

 

[AvsCOL]

Ekholm is okay, but there needs to be a centrepiece to a Duchene deal. Not interested in a package like the ROR deal if we're losing another top-6 centre with two years remaining. Needs to be a #1 D prospect, or a very high pick.



When are we going to stop trading away centres?

 

[agentblack]

Ekholm is okay, but there needs to be a centrepiece to a Duchene deal. Not interested in a package like the ROR deal if we're losing another top-6 centre with two years remaining. Needs to be a #1 D prospect, or a very high pick.



When are we going to stop trading away centres?

When we stop drafting them.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, I don't care how much Dutchy likes Music City, no way should he be dealt there unless the return is huge. Elkholm + wouldn't be NEARLY enough.

I don't agree with anything concerning mental fragility when it comes to Duchene. Anyone in his position would be completely and utterly frustrated as well. He opted to sign quickly twice with an organization he trusted. That trust was betrayed, and that organization failed miserably to build a winner around him.

I don't want him to go. I really, REALLY want him to stay and hopefully be the leader that turns this ship around. But I don't blame him one bit for wanting out, and will root for him wherever he goes...even if it's Nashville.

I haven't lost confidence in Dutchy. I lost confidence in Joe Sakic as a front office executive.

 

[AvsCOL]

Yeah, I don't care how much Dutchy likes Music City, no way should he be dealt there unless the return is huge. Elkholm + wouldn't be NEARLY enough.

I don't agree with anything concerning mental fragility when it comes to Duchene. Anyone in his position would be completely and utterly frustrated as well. He opted to sign quickly twice with an organization he trusted. That trust was betrayed, and that organization failed miserably to build a winner around him.

I don't want him to go. I really, REALLY want him to stay and hopefully be the leader that turns this ship around. But I don't blame him one bit for wanting out, and will root for him wherever he goes...even if it's Nashville.

I haven't lost confidence in Dutchy. I lost confidence in Joe Sakic as a front office executive.

This. Put what has happened to Duchene in perspective; it wouldn't be much fun.

Sakic basically allowed the media to run with the Duchene rumours all season, but when the trade deadline passed, Duchene was supposed to go back to scoring 30 goals and pretending it never happened? That kind of exposure and negativity eats at a player, and it's not like Sakic has cleared his name yet.

This has been the season from hell. The players know it, the fans know it. Not too many guys on that team having fun right now, why single out Duchene?

 

[Avalanche]

Can't wait to trade Duchene for Ryan Murray and then draft Patrick and watch neither of them play for half the season next year.

 

[UncleRisto]

Can't wait to trade Duchene for Ryan Murray and then draft Patrick and watch neither of them play for half the season every year.

"Fixed."