Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII

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Balthazar

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I like this argument. Any time any poster disagrees with your view on the situation and asks for proof evidence, it results in this. Everything is speculation, you can "read between the lines" all you want, but fact is there has been no concrete evidence regarding 98% of the claims that you or TV make.

TV's main point is he's going to walk in 2 years so we better trade him ASAP instead of getting rental value or simply lose him for nothing. Sakic didn't name him as one of the main parts of the rebuild, that's a fact.

My point is I've never seen a GM publicly leaving star players on the block for this long and we can't expect these players to just act like nothing happened and perform normally.

What kind of "proof" do you need? Those aren't wild speculations.
 

dahrougem2

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I'll take my kudos anyday now for saying this the day we signed him.

Also, prepare to throw up in your mouth when the Avs protect Comeau and we lose one of Nieto, Barberio or Andrighetto, aka the only 3 guys who've come in here and seem to hit the ice giving two ***** about the result.

Not a chance in hell this team protects Blake Comeau. Management is stupid. Not that stupid.
 

henchman21

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TV's main point is he's going to walk in 2 years so we better trade him ASAP instead of getting rental value or simply lose him for nothing.

My point is I've never seen a GM publicly leaving star players on the block for this long and we can't expect these players to just act like nothing happened and perform normally.

What kind of "proof" do you need? Those aren't wild speculations.

I can think of one instance where a GM did this... it didn't work out well either (Gillis/Lou). Duchene's name has been out there for a long time (so has Landy's really). I don't blame Duchene a bit, but his words were as clear as I think you can expect from a NHL player. Being open to a trade in NHL speak is pretty much hoping for it.

Sakic screwed the pooch here, and it is going to hurt the organization for a long time. I fully expect Duchene to be here to start next season.
 

dahrougem2

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I can think of one instance where a GM did this... it didn't work out well either (Gillis/Lou). Duchene's name has been out there for a long time (so has Landy's really). I don't blame Duchene a bit, but his words were as clear as I think you can expect from a NHL player. Being open to a trade in NHL speak is pretty much hoping for it.

Sakic screwed the pooch here, and it is going to hurt the organization for a long time. I fully expect Duchene to be here to start next season.

That's the worst possible outcome this summer if you ask me.
 

chet1926

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Well I don't know what people expect from the worst GM in the league?

Of course that was amateur hour. Even more in hindsight now after Duchenes value has taken a complete nosedive.

Now Sakic has put us into the situation that we are basically forced to hang on to Duchene or take a terrible deal for him at the draft. I personally would rather hang on given the strength of the 2017 vs the 2018 draft.

Shopping Duchene around quietly is fine. But doing it like Joe did was just beyond stupid. Especially if you don't have the balls to pull the trigger or don't get the offers you like.

You quietly float the names out there and if the offers you receive in return are not even close you publicly laugh at those rumors and deny them like crazy. Especially with a guy that has always been a bit mentally fragile like Duchene.
If then a great offer comes around, you pull the trigger. Everyone will understand. Duchene might be a bit unhappy but probably not even that. If not you spare yourself, your fans and Duchene the drama.
But Sakic completely lacks that aspect of his job. He is probably simply not smart enough for real gamesmanship or shrewd moves...


But eh. Worst GM in the league. So more Kroenkes fault for putting him and this merry band of nepotists in charge than the fault of the guy who put his hand into a snowblower.

Joe will always be my favorite player but well...

He clearly has to go and take almost all of his current guys with him...


I honestly don't even want to let him handle the Duchene situation. Clean out the front office + coaching staff and try to somehow mend the relationship with Duchene. Atleast openly talk to him about what the plan is from here on out (which Sakic clearly has not done) and hope that he will rebound under a new coach/front office.

Then quietly (!) field offers for him at the deadline or if worst comes to worst sell him off to the highest bidder at the draft if you can't get him on a reasonable contract.

His value right now is shot and this is a terrible draft to trade him for meh + 1st round pick..

It's pretty clear that you don't like Sakic and that's fine you're entitled to your opinion.

But I'd like to ask you a question, can you please point out where Sakic said Duchene and for that matter Landeskog were available? You can't do it because he never said that exact statement. All he said was that the only untouchable players in the system were MacK, Rantanen and Jost.

He never once said I'm shopping Duchene. Other GMs contacted Sakic about the possibility of acquiring Duchene once they heard that statement.

I have no problem with Sakic stating a few players that aren't available, you should never have more than 3-4 "untouchables" in the system in any given time. If you have more than that your GM is doing you a disservice because he isn't listening to enough offers to potentially make the team better.

Sakic not settling for a crap offer at the deadline stuff like Maatta, Fleury, 1st for Duchene IMO was fine and he hasn't screwed us on potentially trading him down the line.
 

JoemAvs

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TV's main point is he's going to walk in 2 years so we better trade him ASAP instead of getting rental value or simply lose him for nothing. Sakic didn't name him as one of the main parts of the rebuild, that's a fact.

My point is I've never seen a GM publicly leaving star players on the block for this long and we can't expect these players to just act like nothing happened and perform normally.

What kind of "proof" do you need? Those aren't wild speculations.


I haven't followed this board recently but if TV said that, I would have to disagree.

I mean we clearly have to get something for him. But he IMO completely tanked his value recently. So trading him in the offseason instead of waiting till the deadline IMO is not what I would do.

I would gamble on Duchene bouncing back next season under a new coach/management and then sell him off at the deadline or at the draft if the offers are not there at the deadline.


I mean unfortunately it looks like the NHL is not going to the Olympics . But that is not set in stone yet. If they do go, you can expect 65-70 point Duchene...

That absolutely has to be taken into consideration. It is no coincidence that Duchene has looked best when he really wanted to make Team Canada...


@ chet:

Bollocks. Sorry. Just because he did not explicitly name them, does not mean he did not shop him. He never once denied those rumors flying around for Duchene and even named his untouchables (which was bullcrap) and did not list them.
I mean you can't be more obvious without flat out saying it.

If he really did not intend to shop them, he is an even worse GM.

This is not me not liking Sakic. This is me evaluating the performance of the worst GM in the league. I was always more team Sakic than team Roy. Still probably am.
But the fact of the matter is that Sakic continues to make awful decision after awful decision and simply has done a **** poor job with this team since he got the job.

Again. Not his fault. He simply is in over his head. GMs should never reveal their hands. Sakic always does. GMs should not put the players feelings about the franchise. Sakic does. But only for "his" guys.
GMs have to play the PR game. Sakic doesn't do that.

Bergevin said 10 hours before Subban was traded that he is basically untradeable. That is how you play that. You don't let the media drag your top players names from rumor to rumor without ever pulling the trigger or atleast flat out deny those rumors (even if you fully intend to trade them asap).

We are currently seeing the end result of that.


A lot of people have to lose their jobs right now in this organisation. Sakic is the first name on the list. It is what it is.
Otherwise this franchise might as well move back to Quebec or atleast we should prepare for another decade of suckage..

My issue with Sakic is not that he did not pull the trigger on a terrible deal. I even applaud him for that.
My issue is that he played this all wrong once again like he has done multiple times now (Barrie saga, ROR saga, Stastny saga, etc.)
 
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chet1926

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This team is in no position to give draft picks away. If Vegas doesn't take Comeau, then so be it. He's here for 1 more season and we *hopefully* trade him at the deadline. But you don't give a single pick away just so Vegas picks him.

Hell, I'd bet they pick him regardless. Who else will they pick? Barberio? Not a good enough d-man to warrant picking given the d-men who will be exposed. Soderberg? Horrible contract. Colborne? He's worse than Comeau, shockingly. I think Vegas takes Comeau for the one year and then is done with him. Nobody else on Colorado is enticing enough.

My honest guess of who they take is either Grigorenko or Colborne. Much better candidates than Comeau due to age and skill level. Colborne could easily be viewed as a "bounce back" candidate. He isn't as bad as he has played this season. He's always been a 25-30ish point player not a 8pts player.
 

RoyIsALegend

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Guess what, we already don't have our third. And nobody is worth spending a pick on to save or get taken.

Get taken, sure. Save? Why not? You don't think the Wild would gladly give away a 3rd or 4th round pick to keep one of their D? Man, we overrate draft picks like crazy here. A 3rd round pick likely won't ever make the NHL. You'd give those away all day if it can keep a top 4 defenseman on your roster.
 

Balthazar

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I mean we clearly have to get something for him. But he IMO completely tanked his value recently. So trading him in the offseason instead of waiting till the deadline IMO is not what I would do.

If the offers at this year's deadline weren't good enough, I can't imagine they'd be better at the next deadline with only one year left on contract, regardless of how well he plays next year.

Duchene's performances up until the deadline weren't that bad.
 

dahrougem2

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My honest guess of who they take is either Grigorenko or Colborne. Much better candidates than Comeau due to age and skill level. Colborne could easily be viewed as a "bounce back" candidate. He isn't as bad as he has played this season. He's always been a 25-30ish point player not a 8pts player.
Comeau has also always been a 25-35 point player. As much as I hate him, I'd take him over Colborne.
Get taken, sure. Save? Why not? You don't think the Wild would gladly give away a 3rd or 4th round pick to keep one of their D? Man, we overrate draft picks like crazy here. A 3rd round pick likely won't ever make the NHL. You'd give those away all day if it can keep a top 4 defenseman on your roster.

I think what was meant was nobody on this team is worth spending a pick on to keep here outside of the obvious protected players.
 

JoemAvs

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Get taken, sure. Save? Why not? You don't think the Wild would gladly give away a 3rd or 4th round pick to keep one of their D? Man, we overrate draft picks like crazy here. A 3rd round pick likely won't ever make the NHL. You'd give those away all day if it can keep a top 4 defenseman on your roster.

And some people ridiculously undervalue how important asset management is in the capworld.

Many of those people are associated with the Colorado Avalanche.


Also the main reason why the Avs are on pace for one of the worst seasons in history.


But hey. Why learn from your mistakes, right?



We are the mighty Avs and won 2 cups 15-20 years ago due to no "fault" of our own basically (Quebec had to suffer for all of it).

So we embody greatness and it is only a matter of time before we are back on top, right?.


Screw Comeau. Screw Soderberg. Screw Colborne. Screw Beach.

Big thanks to our GM for signing them. It really is not worth it to give up anything to get rid of those plugs.

Avs shouldn't even try to be a good team next season. We have way too many issues that needs to be fixed via the draft to even bother with thinking about the playoffs next season.

So be smart for once and keep your picks...


@Balthazar:

Better draft and I just can't see Duchene having a worse season next year.

Also lets teams hammer out an extension with Duchene pretty much right after the trade (like BUF did with ROR).

Sakic already effed up this situation so much that at this point it does not really matter IMO. The end result will not be pretty.

Our best chance of rectifying this mess might IMO indeed be banking on Duchene bouncing back under new management/coaching staff and banking on the 2018 draft...
 

tigervixxxen

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Get taken, sure. Save? Why not? You don't think the Wild would gladly give away a 3rd or 4th round pick to keep one of their D? Man, we overrate draft picks like crazy here. A 3rd round pick likely won't ever make the NHL. You'd give those away all day if it can keep a top 4 defenseman on your roster.

Brodin is in a bit different tier than Barberio
 

chet1926

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I haven't followed this board recently but if TV said that, I would have to disagree.

I mean we clearly have to get something for him. But he IMO completely tanked his value recently. So trading him in the offseason instead of waiting till the deadline IMO is not what I would do.

I would gamble on Duchene bouncing back next season under a new coach/management and then sell him off at the deadline or at the draft if the offers are not there at the deadline.


I mean unfortunately it looks like the NHL is not going to the Olympics . But that is not set in stone yet. If they do go, you can expect 65-70 point Duchene...

That absolutely has to be taken into consideration. It is no coincidence that Duchene has looked best when he really wanted to make Team Canada...


@ chet:

Bollocks. Sorry. Just because he did not explicitly name them, does not mean he did not shop him. He never once denied those rumors flying around for Duchene and even named his untouchables (which was bullcrap) and did not list them.
I mean you can't be more obvious without flat out saying it.

If he really did not intend to shop them, he is an even worse GM.

This is not me not liking Sakic. This is me evaluating the performance of the worst GM in the league. I was always more team Sakic than team Roy. Still probably am.
But the fact of the matter is that Sakic continues to make awful decision after awful decision and simply has done a **** poor job with this team since he got the job.

Again. Not his fault. He simply is in over his head. GMs should never reveal their hands. Sakic always does. GMs should not put the players feelings about the franchise. Sakic does. But only for "his" guys.
GMs have to play the PR game. Sakic doesn't do that.

Bergevin said 10 hours before Subban was traded that he is basically untradeable. That is how you play that. You don't let the media drag your top players names from rumor to rumor without ever pulling the trigger or atleast flat out deny those rumors (even if you fully intend to trade them asap).

We are currently seeing the end result of that.


A lot of people have to lose their jobs right now in this organisation. Sakic is the first name on the list. It is what it is.
Otherwise this franchise might as well move back to Quebec or atleast we should prepare for another decade of suckage..

My issue with Sakic is not that he did not pull the trigger on a terrible deal. I even applaud him for that.
My issue is that he played this all wrong once again like he has done multiple times now (Barrie saga, ROR saga, Stastny saga, etc.)

I mean I never said that Sakic didn't shop Duchene or Landeskog, he most certainly did. But he never once came out to the public and said "I'm seeking a trade for Duchene or Landeskog." All Sakic ever did was say don't bother asking me about these 3 guys (MacK, Rants, Jost) because I'm not trading them.

When you are the worst team in the league, and you're constantly being asked what you are doing to change things, making a statement that many possibilities are being explored, but were not giving up certain players is fine by me. This is what needs to be said by a GM of team that was in our position.

As for your evaluation on the RoR trade, I think was handled exceptionally well considering we traded a guy with 1 year left on his current deal that had no intentions of ever re-signing here. We landed multiple decent pieces in that deal. Getting Zadorov, Compher, Greer and to an extent Grigs was a win instead of overpaying ROR to stay. The funny part is now the Sabres GM is whining that he doesn't have enough defense.

The Statsny situation IMO was handled correctly. Look at the Shattenkirk situation this year and tell me it wasn't handled correctly. St Louis traded away Shatty for nothing of value to the current team and the GM basically said I rather have a 1st round pick than go after a playoff run. That's a terrible message to send the team and fans. I'd be pretty pissed if I was a Blues fan.

Barrie could have been handled better. I will agree there.
 

tigervixxxen

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Comeau has also always been a 25-35 point player. As much as I hate him, I'd take him over Colborne.


I think what was meant was nobody on this team is worth spending a pick on to keep here outside of the obvious protected players.

Yes I meant this team, I don't care what other teams have to do.

I don't think there's any way under the sun Grigo gets taken. He has a high QO with arb rights even if one of their scouts has seen him on a good day.

I haven't followed this board recently but if TV said that, I would have to disagree.

I mean we clearly have to get something for him. But he IMO completely tanked his value recently. So trading him in the offseason instead of waiting till the deadline IMO is not what I would do.

I would gamble on Duchene bouncing back next season under a new coach/management and then sell him off at the deadline or at the draft if the offers are not there at the deadline.

I don't think I explicitly said it has to be ASAP but I don't really buy into the fact that his value is going to go up as he reaches UFA. I know you like the idea of 2018 picks better but I don't see any real benefit to holding on to him. There's the benefit of moving on and getting on with the rebuild and not having it hang over the org just like the inevitable ROR deal did. GMs know what type of player he is, he's not some 2-3 year pro where his reputation solely rests on production. Two years of term is simply better than one, I don't buy into the immediate extension angle. It's tough to make an absolute statement without knowing the offers though. I don't want them to take a bag of crap just to get it over with but there has to be a way to make it work. If they have to change their angle to get more (good) futures or an older top 4 D then so be it. It seems the Avs tend to like to throw up their hands and say hey we tried, what do you expect? It's just not good enough, it's time to cut the excuses.
 
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chet1926

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Comeau has also always been a 25-35 point player. As much as I hate him, I'd take him over Colborne.


I think what was meant was nobody on this team is worth spending a pick on to keep here outside of the obvious protected players.

I'd take Colborne over Comeau, basically same production except Colborne is way younger. Considering they both have one year left on their contracts advantage Colborne.
 

AslanRH

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I'd take Colborne over Comeau, basically same production except Colborne is way younger. Considering they both have one year left on their contracts advantage Colborne.

I'd argue by skillsets, Comeau will be the more attractive piece at the deadline for a playoff team assuming they have similar seasons next year.

While I don't think either are worth giving much thought, I could see where this organization may still value Comeau
 

ABasin

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So question of the day...How much would you give to LV for them to select Blake Comeau? I can't deal with another year of him.

I was thinking of offering our 3rd this year to them just to take him off our hands. I know that's a little steep but he's got to go.

I can live with guys like Colborne, Grigs, Soderberg etc. but if Blake Comeau is on the team next year I might just skip watching next season. Literally can't stand that worthless waste of space. Never seen a player that was so completely worthless in every aspect of the game.

I realize the current GM won't do this sort of thing, but if the Avs get a new GM, Comeau could be worth a 3rd round pick at next year's deadline. So, paying LV to take Comeau, could result in costing the Avs two 3rd round picks. Which isn't good asset management.

Comeau isn't great, but his salary isn't crippling, hence it's not worth giving up assets to lose that salary.
 

ABasin

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I'll take my kudos anyday now for saying this the day we signed him.

Also, prepare to throw up in your mouth when the Avs protect Comeau and we lose one of Nieto, Barberio or Andrighetto, aka the only 3 guys who've come in here and seem to hit the ice giving two ***** about the result.

Given recent results, I'm guessing Andrighetto is the 4th forward they protect. I doubt they'd protect Comeau over him.

Of course, I'm pretty much a dunce when it comes to these expansion rules. Andreighetto is a RFA after the season - can the Avs still protect him? I think they can.
 

Ivan13

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If you have a pick of who to keep between Comeau and JC, it's Comeau 100 times out of 10. Comeau - who I can't stand - might be valuable to a contender at the next deadline - won't get traded, but at least we can have delusions we will get something for him - while I don't see any team trading to get the decomposing corpse of JC.
 

Freudian

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Avs shouldn't spend anything to get Las Vegas to take a player. Just hope they take a bum instead of a good young player.

The possible exception would be Söderberg, but LV would probably want a good pick if Avs are desperate to get rid of him.
 

Ivan13

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Given recent results, I'm guessing Andrighetto is the 4th forward they protect. I doubt they'd protect Comeau over him.

Of course, I'm pretty much a dunce when it comes to these expansion rules. Andreighetto is a RFA after the season - can the Avs still protect him? I think they can.

Yes, RFAs that are not exempt must be protected if you want to retain their services.
 

Thepoolmaster

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They're going to take nieto or Sven I think.

Why would vegas take any of the other plugs. Beauchemin won't waive (probably) forcing us to do 4/4/1 Landy/Mack/duchene/ nieto or sven
 
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