Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII

[AslanRH]

While I'm not going to put up a big fight about lumping players like Soderberg or even maybe Grigorenko in the same group as the Mitchell and Gelinas plug types, I think for as much of a pass as the stars have gotten regarding performance on a historically bad team (see the value of Duchene or Landeskog threads), those two deserve a bit of consideration as well.

regarding RBourque, I don't necessarily want to see him back, but TV is right, we are going to see someone similar no matter what. I would just hope they look towards a bit younger of a player. It just seems ridiculously difficult to move a mid 30s guy in this league for much of anything, even at deadline time.

 

[Vaslof]

To put this on a different track, does anybody here want Rene Bourque back on another 1-year deal? He did lose steam in the middle of the year, but he has picked up some steam in the last few weeks. His effort level, which everybody predicted would fall off any day now, has been consistent. And he pots goals, showing that hr still has a bit of finishing instinct. Does anybody think he could be a decent depth guy for next year after basically proving that he still belongs in the NHL? We're going to have to sign some fill-in plugs anyway to make a roster, why not the devil we know?

Might as well, next year will prob be an intentional tank year. I think they definitely want to sign Bourque for another year and that's why he has been playing in the top six even after the trade deadline.

 

[ABasin]

No point in having borque back next year. We arent ready to compete. We need to get younger and faster. Soda, comeau and colbourne will wlll all be here next year playing in our bottom 6 wether we want them to our not. Then theres sven, greer, compher and maybe jost playing bottom 6 too. I dont want to have any veterans added or retained especially borque who was having a solid year and he still couldnt be moved at the deadline

Couldn't, or wouldn't?

The Avs are likely to have an opening or two in the top 9 that they could fill with a decent short-term UFA signing or two. But I only want them to do this if they plan on trading that UFA at next year's deadline. The Avs already have a couple of UFA guys who could bring a return at the 2018 deadline, in Beauchemin (yes, he would be wanted by other teams) and Comeau. Colborne? Meh, not sure about him.

But that is all predicated on the Avs having a GM who will actually trade veteran UFAs at trade deadlines. The Avs don't currently have one of those GMs. So, as of right here and now, I wouldn't want them to resign Bourque.

 

[AvsFan2123]

If Sakic had the stones to do what's necessary, here's what I personally think needs to be done:

1) Buy out Soderberg. 3 more years at that AAV is a hard pill to swallow. I just don't know how he can go from a career year to what's going on now.

2) Bury Beauchemin, or at least play him on the 3rd pair. He only has one more year left, I think it'll be better to just bite the bullet and keep him for one more year.

3) Youth Movement - Let Greer, Compher, Bigras, and possibly Jost play this upcoming year. Get them acclimated to NHL play. Maybe even our 2017 1st depending on who it is.

4) Try to move dead weight. If he can get rid of one of Comeau or Colborne, that's great.

 

[Foppberg]

Had a dream that we traded Landeskog and a 5th in exchange for a 1st + Ryan Suter on the condition that he loses 10 years.

I mean.. It'd suck to see him go to Minnesota but damn

 

[tigervixxxen]

You can't have Soderberg on the books for 6 more years. It might look like they have no cap problem now but when these young guys need to get paid sooner than later they can have that hanging around. Whenever a new coach comes around he's going to have to get more out of him.

 

[tucker3434]

If Sakic had the stones to do what's necessary, here's what I personally think needs to be done:

1) Buy out Soderberg. 3 more years at that AAV is a hard pill to swallow. I just don't know how he can go from a career year to what's going on now.

2) Bury Beauchemin, or at least play him on the 3rd pair. He only has one more year left, I think it'll be better to just bite the bullet and keep him for one more year.

3) Youth Movement - Let Greer, Compher, Bigras, and possibly Jost play this upcoming year. Get them acclimated to NHL play. Maybe even our 2017 1st depending on who it is.

4) Try to move dead weight. If he can get rid of one of Comeau or Colborne, that's great.

I'd keep Soderberg around and see if he can bounce back under a new coach. It isn't like we need the cap savings next year. If he's terrible again, buy him out in 2018 and have it roll off the books a year earlier.

But agree on the youth movement. It'd be great if Jost and 2017 1st rounder were ready to make the jump.

 

[AvsFan2123]

You can't have Soderberg on the books for 6 more years. It might look like they have no cap problem now but when these young guys need to get paid sooner than later they can have that hanging around. Whenever a new coach comes around he's going to have to get more out of him.

Oh dang I didn't know that it would last that long on the cap. That's the one area of hockey I need to improve my knowledge. I don't know how buyouts work and when cap is still on the books and when years get added. Then yeah just keep him and hope he bounces back if we ever decide to get a new coach. Then I'd rather use that buyout on Beauchemin if it provides cap relief.

 

[AslanRH]

Oh dang I didn't know that it would last that long on the cap. That's the one area of hockey I need to improve my knowledge. I don't know how buyouts work and when cap is still on the books and when years get added. Then yeah just keep him and hope he bounces back if we ever decide to get a new coach. Then I'd rather use that buyout on Beauchemin if it provides cap relief.

his buyout this year would result in
$1.306 for 2017-18 and 2018-19
$2.306 for 2019-20
$1.556 for 2020-21, 21-22, and 22-23

next year
$1.250 for 2018-19
$2.250 for 2019-20
1.5 for 2020-21 and 2021-22

Avs would probably be better served bribing Vegas to take him or to work a Briere for PAP or the SOB+Jones to Calgary type trade down the line.

 

[ABasin]

If Sakic had the stones to do what's necessary, here's what I personally think needs to be done:

1) Buy out Soderberg. 3 more years at that AAV is a hard pill to swallow. I just don't know how he can go from a career year to what's going on now.

2) Bury Beauchemin, or at least play him on the 3rd pair. He only has one more year left, I think it'll be better to just bite the bullet and keep him for one more year.

3) Youth Movement - Let Greer, Compher, Bigras, and possibly Jost play this upcoming year. Get them acclimated to NHL play. Maybe even our 2017 1st depending on who it is.

4) Try to move dead weight. If he can get rid of one of Comeau or Colborne, that's great.

If the Avs cannot solve the problem of players performing so far below their potential (or proven past performance), none of this matters.

Given the Avs have not been able to put a dent in the above-listed problem all season, the Avs are going to be in the position of selling low, or trying to "fix" some of these players. IMO, they won't eat contracts for all of those years. The only way they can deal with Soderberg and Varlamov, is to get them to some semblance of their former selves - change them from near useless players to useful-but-expensive ones, and live with it. Change them from $5M overpaid to $1-2M overpaid and move on to other parts of the roster.

Soderberg most definitely has skill. Good hands, passing, etc. If his head is in the right place, this situation can improve, IMO. Unlike the Beauchemin situation - he's just old and close to done.

 

[Avs_19]

Friedman.......

“I think the other big question is we’ve heard a lot of rumors about guys like Matt Duchene and Gabriel Landeskog. Matt Duchene is a guy you can tell – this is wearing him down. I think my question is going to be at the end of the season is he going to sit down and say, ‘Look, I didn’t like hearing my name in rumors. I don’t like how unsettled this is.’

“I wonder if he’s going to say, ‘Look, it’s time for you guys to move me and I’d like to go.’

“I think there is a possibility that that conversation happens.”

https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/friedman-colorado-avalanche-just-turned-mess/

McKenzie said something similar around the deadline.

 

[Balthazar]

Friedman.......



https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/friedman-colorado-avalanche-just-turned-mess/

McKenzie said something similar around the deadline.

Duchene can't stay and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand basic human psychology. We've heard it all: "But but... he's getting paid" or "but but..Drouin". All irrelevant BS.
When you feel like you're not wanted anymore, it's extremely hard (near impossible) to perform. The trust between the AVS and Duchene has been broken when Sakic made him publicly available. There's no going back.

PS: that's the opposite of what happened to Drouin. Yzerman said that he wanted to keep him and had big plans for him inside the org. Complete nonsense to compare both situations.

 

[AslanRH]

Duchene can't stay and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand basic human psychology. We've heard it all: "But but... he's getting paid" or "but but..Drouin". All irrelevant BS.
When you feel like you're not wanted anymore, it's extremely hard (near impossible) to perform. The trust between the AVS and Duchene has been broken when Sakic made him publicly available. There's no going back.

PS: that's the opposite of what happened to Drouin. Yzerman said that he wanted to keep him and had big plans for him inside the org. Complete nonsense to compare both situations.

Agreed.

Drouin was almost the exact reverse where the team could have said "we're not sure you like us enough to stick around" where as with Duchene the team is saying "we're not sure we like you enough to keep you"

 

[chet1926]

Duchene can't stay and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand basic human psychology. We've heard it all: "But but... he's getting paid" or "but but..Drouin". All irrelevant BS.
When you feel like you're not wanted anymore, it's extremely hard (near impossible) to perform. The trust between the AVS and Duchene has been broken when Sakic made him publicly available. There's no going back.

PS: that's the opposite of what happened to Drouin. Yzerman said that he wanted to keep him and had big plans for him inside the org. Complete nonsense to compare both situations.

Yeah I agree with this. Duchene will never play another game as a member of the Colorado Avalanche past this season.

He doesn't want to be here anymore, and wants to move on. You can tell by his body language. He stopped caring months ago. If we aren't trying to move him, he'll request out.

I also think that Landeskog's days are numbered as well. I personally don't think we should move him, but I can also see why management would consider it. He is the captain of a team that has repeatedly failed, at some point that has to be a reflection on the captain.

All I know is it could be a very interesting offseason. I fully expect a drastically different team come next training camp. Management/Ownership knows they can't have the same basic roster, it's just not working. And I can guarantee that Stan Kronke is embarrassed by the product that is out there. He likes to win, despite what people think. And changes will be made, maybe throughout the organization.

 

[Vaslof]

Two years left in the contract with his value plummeted to record lows. Don't be surprised if Duchene is still around next year. Going by the reports we've heard, Sakic clearly values him highly. If he doesn't get the return he wants, makes sense to wait another year, chances are he'll perform better and raise his value back up. Duchene isn't the only one who's got a mental lock in our team, almost all of them do. If it was just Duchene, we wouldn't be even near as bad as we have been.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Two years left in the contract with his value plummeted to record lows. Don't be surprised if Duchene is still around next year. Going by the reports we've heard, Sakic clearly values him highly. If he doesn't get the return he wants, makes sense to wait another year, chances are he'll perform better and raise his value back up. Duchene isn't the only one who's got a mental lock in our team, almost all of them do. If it was just Duchene, we wouldn't be even near as bad as we have been.

Dont really disagree but waiting a year gets him into rental territory

 

[Metallo]

Well if Duchene feelings are hurt by him possibly moving, he is weak mentally. Trade rumours happen in pro sports. Sakic never said he was looking to dump him, just said that he's not untouchable, like 95% of the players in this league.

I believe that if we put a decent roster together for next season (and dump Bednar) we could see Duchene in a better mental state.

I don't think the relation is broken beyond repair.

 

[Balthazar]

Well if Duchene feelings are hurt by him possibly moving, he is weak mentally. Trade rumours happen in pro sports. Sakic never said he was looking to dump him, just said that he's not untouchable, like 95% of the players in this league.

I believe that if we put a decent roster together for next season (and dump Bednar) we could see Duchene in a better mental state.

I don't think the relation is broken beyond repair.

Have you ever had a job? How would it feel if your boss was openly trying to get rid of you? Would it affect your productivity? Your relations with your coworkers? Your motivation getting up and going to work every morning? Of course it would. You'd collect your paycheck while making plans to go work elsewhere where you're actually wanted. Hockey players are no different than the rest of us.

 

[dahrougem2]

Well if Duchene feelings are hurt by him possibly moving, he is weak mentally. Trade rumours happen in pro sports. Sakic never said he was looking to dump him, just said that he's not untouchable, like 95% of the players in this league.

I believe that if we put a decent roster together for next season (and dump Bednar) we could see Duchene in a better mental state.

I don't think the relation is broken beyond repair.

It isn't this common for rumours about a player to be public for this long.

 

[Balthazar]

It isn't this common for rumours about a player to be public for this long.

Not common at all to have star players openly on the trade block...let alone for months. Usually GM's deny rumors until after its done (see: Subban)...here it's the opposite.

 

[Balthazar]

Two years left in the contract with his value plummeted to record lows. Don't be surprised if Duchene is still around next year. Going by the reports we've heard, Sakic clearly values him highly. If he doesn't get the return he wants, makes sense to wait another year, chances are he'll perform better and raise his value back up. Duchene isn't the only one who's got a mental lock in our team, almost all of them do. If it was just Duchene, we wouldn't be even near as bad as we have been.

Dont really disagree but waiting a year gets him into rental territory

So what you guys are saying is Sakic will never get better offers than those that he got before the deadline? Color me surprised.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Well if Duchene feelings are hurt by him possibly moving, he is weak mentally. Trade rumours happen in pro sports. Sakic never said he was looking to dump him, just said that he's not untouchable, like 95% of the players in this league.

I believe that if we put a decent roster together for next season (and dump Bednar) we could see Duchene in a better mental state.

I don't think the relation is broken beyond repair.

Two years of rumors aren't common in pro sports. Especially not rumors as heavy as actually being "shopped". Add the fact that the Avalanche are the worst NHL team that anyone under the age of 30 years old has ever witnessed o top of those rumors and it's pretty understandable if he wants out. It just should have been settled before a request actually happens.

 

[Pokecheque]

Absolutely HATE how the Duchene situation has been handled. If he were actively shopping him, didn't like the offers and then pulled him it'd be one thing, but to just leave him out there and listen to offers and seemingly wait until one that was simply too good to be true (and he was NEVER going to get such an offer, especially with the expansion draft looming, not to mention no immediate cap room) is entirely another. Sheer incompetence. I don't blame Duchene one bit if he wants out.

As for Sortaberg, I also don't get at all what the organization wants to do there either. The stats guys should be screaming like hell for Bednar to just put him on a scoring wing and shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. At least THEN he'd be semi-productive. But instead they keep either using him in a role he's clearly not interested nor well-suited for, or he's in the doghouse getting 4th line or no minutes. A buyout would be ill-advised at this point, they'll have to take him into next year and hope to God he becomes at least semi-palatable, and then dump him for scraps. At least then if he's still as useless as he is now, a buyout is not nearly as painful.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Friedman.......



https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/friedman-colorado-avalanche-just-turned-mess/

McKenzie said something similar around the deadline.

Yup, more baseless speculation. I like Friedman as much as the next guy but he clearly said this is what he thinks might happen. Last I checked he's not a fortune teller. AS much as SPortnet wants him to be.

Duchene can't stay and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand basic human psychology. We've heard it all: "But but... he's getting paid" or "but but..Drouin". All irrelevant BS.
When you feel like you're not wanted anymore, it's extremely hard (near impossible) to perform. The trust between the AVS and Duchene has been broken when Sakic made him publicly available. There's no going back.

PS: that's the opposite of what happened to Drouin. Yzerman said that he wanted to keep him and had big plans for him inside the org. Complete nonsense to compare both situations.

There have been many players that have been rumoured or clearly on the market but stayed with their team. Skinner,Faulk and Simmonds to name a few. These guys have heard their names on a yearly basis in the media yet none of them have been traded. JVR too.

but but he's struggling so, he must have quit.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Two years left in the contract with his value plummeted to record lows. Don't be surprised if Duchene is still around next year. Going by the reports we've heard, Sakic clearly values him highly. If he doesn't get the return he wants, makes sense to wait another year, chances are he'll perform better and raise his value back up.

We need to get on with our rebuild and acknowledge it's a rebuild. At some point, some guys need to be moved I don't care if it's Landeskog or Barrie or even MacKinnon who I'm low on and obviously with Duchene it's at the point of no return.

With Duchene, I no longer care about getting maximal value, just move him. It's better to start the rebuild sooner and start getting assets now rather than waiting an extra summer just to squeeze out a slightly better return (which won't happen as he nears rental territory as TV said).

We have depreciating assets and need new guys to start stepping in, start getting rid of the old. The Leafs are my 2nd team and I was never eneamored by the Kessel return, it was low but the best part of that deal was moving Kessel and getting on with the rebuild. Imagine where they'd be if they'd also capitalized on moving some guys like Phaneuf and Lupul earlier than they did.