Prospect Info: Avs draft F Calum Ritchie (2023 #27 overall)

GirardSpinorama

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Aug 20, 2004
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I would love JEE but do we really "need" a shutdown 2C at premium prices? Kadri was the perfect 2C for us in the playoffs but we never needed him or compher to shut it down. We just need some offense and play driving. A 2nd line that doesnt get caved in and gives mack a break. Honestly, the more i think about it, the more i see Zegras as kadri 2.0
 

dahrougem2

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Dec 9, 2011
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I would love JEE but do we really "need" a shutdown 2C at premium prices? Kadri was the perfect 2C for us in the playoffs but we never needed him or compher to shut it down. We just need some offense and play driving. A 2nd line that doesnt get caved in and gives mack a break. Honestly, the more i think about it, the more i see Zegras as kadri 2.0
He had 61 points last season and is pacing 64 this season.

Zegras had seasons of 61 and 65 points.

One guy comes with insanely better defensive play on top of being 6'3 210.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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I would love JEE but do we really "need" a shutdown 2C at premium prices? Kadri was the perfect 2C for us in the playoffs but we never needed him or compher to shut it down. We just need some offense and play driving. A 2nd line that doesnt get caved in and gives mack a break. Honestly, the more i think about it, the more i see Zegras as kadri 2.0
This should probably be taken to the other thread... but Fatty is kind of the middle in all of this.

JEE is your shutdown, elite defensive 2C who has some offense but isn't a driver. Zegras is your very flawed defensive guy, but with an extremely high ceiling and plenty of offense. Fatty is a good defensive center who can play in all situations, but drives a lot more offense than JEE... but won't be that 90+ point guy ever.

If we are talking best medium term options... those are the three best. If a deal can reasonably swung for any of them, that's the move to make.

He had 61 points last season and is pacing 64 this season.

Zegras had seasons of 61 and 65 points.

One guy comes with insanely better defensive play on top of being 6'3 210.
Not all 60 point players are the same. JEE isn't a driver of offense. He's a just really solid hockey player and lives in dirty areas (that's why he scores so many PP goals). He's not going to create anything out of nothing... but he'll be reasonably productive with enough skill around him.

One thing that seems kind weird given the skill sets... JEE is much more of a rush and transition guy offensively 5v5. He's not a great player within the zone. Very basic, north/south, but fast game (not in skating but moving from one zone to another). Zegras is actually a mediocre rush guy. He clearly has the skill for it... but he's not going to generate high rates off the rush. Where he excels is on the cycle and moving around the offensive zone. If possession is maintained and Zegras is allowed to work... he's going to fly around and create at a very high level. Putting him with Nuke and Lehky would likely be an nightmare to face. Two guys who can get the puck and maintain it, while Zegras can clean up the puck and dance around feeding Nuke/Lehky/Makar/Toews/Byram/G with high end feeds. I think that would be a match made in heaven offensively.
 
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dahrougem2

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This should probably be taken to the other thread... but Fatty is kind of the middle in all of this.

JEE is your shutdown, elite defensive 2C who has some offense but isn't a driver. Zegras is your very flawed defensive guy, but with an extremely high ceiling and plenty of offense. Fatty is a good defensive center who can play in all situations, but drives a lot more offense than JEE... but won't be that 90+ point guy ever.

If we are talking best medium term options... those are the three best. If a deal can reasonably swung for any of them, that's the move to make.


Not all 60 point players are the same. JEE isn't a driver of offense. He's a just really solid hockey player and lives in dirty areas (that's why he scores so many PP goals). He's not going to create anything out of nothing... but he'll be reasonably productive with enough skill around him.

One thing that seems kind weird given the skill sets... JEE is much more of a rush and transition guy offensively 5v5. He's not a great player within the zone. Very basic, north/south, but fast game (not in skating but moving from one zone to another). Zegras is actually a mediocre rush guy. He clearly has the skill for it... but he's not going to generate high rates off the rush. Where he excels is on the cycle and moving around the offensive zone. If possession is maintained and Zegras is allowed to work... he's going to fly around and create at a very high level. Putting him with Nuke and Lehky would likely be an nightmare to face. Two guys who can get the puck and maintain it, while Zegras can clean up the puck and dance around feeding Nuke/Lehky/Makar/Toews/Byram/G with high end feeds. I think that would be a match made in heaven offensively.
Put him with Mikko and watch the magic happen, or watch JEE swing his stick at Mikko's head. One or the other.
 
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Pokecheque

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How is Ritchie’s skating? I keep reading Henchy comparing him to Dylan Strome, a player I’m not a big fan of. The guy Strome reminds me of is Mike Ribeiro. Slow, soft perimeter guy but had enough skill and a shot to stick around the league and produce for a bit.
 

Avs9296

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How is Ritchie’s skating? I keep reading Henchy comparing him to Dylan Strome, a player I’m not a big fan of. The guy Strome reminds me of is Mike Ribeiro. Slow, soft perimeter guy but had enough skill and a shot to stick around the league and produce for a bit.
A less talented Dylan Strome, to be exact.
 
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GirardSpinorama

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This should probably be taken to the other thread... but Fatty is kind of the middle in all of this.

JEE is your shutdown, elite defensive 2C who has some offense but isn't a driver. Zegras is your very flawed defensive guy, but with an extremely high ceiling and plenty of offense. Fatty is a good defensive center who can play in all situations, but drives a lot more offense than JEE... but won't be that 90+ point guy ever.

If we are talking best medium term options... those are the three best. If a deal can reasonably swung for any of them, that's the move to make.


Not all 60 point players are the same. JEE isn't a driver of offense. He's a just really solid hockey player and lives in dirty areas (that's why he scores so many PP goals). He's not going to create anything out of nothing... but he'll be reasonably productive with enough skill around him.

One thing that seems kind weird given the skill sets... JEE is much more of a rush and transition guy offensively 5v5. He's not a great player within the zone. Very basic, north/south, but fast game (not in skating but moving from one zone to another). Zegras is actually a mediocre rush guy. He clearly has the skill for it... but he's not going to generate high rates off the rush. Where he excels is on the cycle and moving around the offensive zone. If possession is maintained and Zegras is allowed to work... he's going to fly around and create at a very high level. Putting him with Nuke and Lehky would likely be an nightmare to face. Two guys who can get the puck and maintain it, while Zegras can clean up the puck and dance around feeding Nuke/Lehky/Makar/Toews/Byram/G with high end feeds. I think that would be a match made in heaven offensively.

I would take any of the three but right now, zegras might be the best buy low ala Kadri.

Girard+Colton for Zegras plus Carrick plus pick?
This should probably be taken to the other thread... but Fatty is kind of the middle in all of this.

JEE is your shutdown, elite defensive 2C who has some offense but isn't a driver. Zegras is your very flawed defensive guy, but with an extremely high ceiling and plenty of offense. Fatty is a good defensive center who can play in all situations, but drives a lot more offense than JEE... but won't be that 90+ point guy ever.

If we are talking best medium term options... those are the three best. If a deal can reasonably swung for any of them, that's the move to make.


Not all 60 point players are the same. JEE isn't a driver of offense. He's a just really solid hockey player and lives in dirty areas (that's why he scores so many PP goals). He's not going to create anything out of nothing... but he'll be reasonably productive with enough skill around him.

One thing that seems kind weird given the skill sets... JEE is much more of a rush and transition guy offensively 5v5. He's not a great player within the zone. Very basic, north/south, but fast game (not in skating but moving from one zone to another). Zegras is actually a mediocre rush guy. He clearly has the skill for it... but he's not going to generate high rates off the rush. Where he excels is on the cycle and moving around the offensive zone. If possession is maintained and Zegras is allowed to work... he's going to fly around and create at a very high level. Putting him with Nuke and Lehky would likely be an nightmare to face. Two guys who can get the puck and maintain it, while Zegras can clean up the puck and dance around feeding Nuke/Lehky/Makar/Toews/Byram/G with high end feeds. I think that would be a match made in heaven offensively.

Zegras with Nuke and Lehkonen would be so great. JEE with them would be a shut down line but not well rounded enough and obviously huge cost asset wise. I think we've tried a shutdown 2 line before, burying Burakovsky or move him up with Mack. It never was that amazing.
 

Perratrooper

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I would take any of the three but right now, zegras might be the best buy low ala Kadri.

Girard+Colton for Zegras plus Carrick plus pick?

Zegras with Nuke and Lehkonen would be so great. JEE with them would be a shut down line but not well rounded enough and obviously huge cost asset wise. I think we've tried a shutdown 2 line before, burying Burakovsky or move him up with Mack. It never was that amazing.

Why would Anaheim trade Zegras for Colton and Girard?
 

henchman21

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How is Ritchie’s skating? I keep reading Henchy comparing him to Dylan Strome, a player I’m not a big fan of. The guy Strome reminds me of is Mike Ribeiro. Slow, soft perimeter guy but had enough skill and a shot to stick around the league and produce for a bit.
It’s good at his level and a strength. In the NHL it’ll be average. When he gets moving he can create speed… but he’s not creating separation in the NHL with his skating. Decent strong on his skates so can absorb and battle fine.

Strome is a super underrated skater when he’s moving his feet. He just gets lazy too often and floats a lot.

A less talented Dylan Strome, to be exact.
People don’t get how dominant of a player he was in junior. He could do anything he wanted without even trying. Unreal talent with clear flaws.
 

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I would love JEE but do we really "need" a shutdown 2C at premium prices? Kadri was the perfect 2C for us in the playoffs but we never needed him or compher to shut it down. We just need some offense and play driving. A 2nd line that doesnt get caved in and gives mack a break. Honestly, the more i think about it, the more i see Zegras as kadri 2.0
The Avs are not as efficient a defensive team nor is their goaltending as good as it was in 2022. So…yeah they could benefit from an elite defensive center who can log major minutes.
 

Avs9296

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It’s good at his level and a strength. In the NHL it’ll be average. When he gets moving he can create speed… but he’s not creating separation in the NHL with his skating. Decent strong on his skates so can absorb and battle fine.

Strome is a super underrated skater when he’s moving his feet. He just gets lazy too often and floats a lot.


People don’t get how dominant of a player he was in junior. He could do anything he wanted without even trying. Unreal talent with clear flaws.
Ok so let me ask you this.

Do you feel Cal Ritchie is as lazy as Dylan Strome was/is?
 

expatriatedtexan

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Why would Anaheim trade Zegras for Colton and Girard?
Why wouldn't he? It sounds to me like Zegras is being shopped. Is he really going to fetch better than a good #3D and great 3C? I'd pull the trigger myself but reluctantly. We'd have to get another 3C because I am not giving Ryan Johansen 3rd line minutes in the playoffs if I can avoid it and as much as I love Cogs and Olof, they are not 3Cs for Stanley Cup run.

Trevor Zegras
2023-24 45.94 xGF% 4-3-7 in 20 GP 0.35 P/GP
2022-23 41.76 xGF% 23-42-65 in 82GP 0.80 P/GP
2021-22 46.59 xGF% 23-38-61 in 75GP 0.81 P/GP
2020-21 48.24 xGF% 3-10-13 in 24GP 0.54 P/GP

The points are more than good enough, with the exception of the few games he's played this season. The lackluster xGF% is a concern but then again...Trevor is playing for the Anaheim Ducks. They haven't had a center who played more than 10 games end a season with an xGF% > 50.00 since before at least the 2020/21 season. I quit pulling the season reports on natural stat trick at this point.

As for the Ducks, Ross' got an even strength xGF% of 52.31 10-13-23 0.51 P/GP so his production falls below that of Mason McTavish's 43.27 xGF% 13-15-28 0.72 P/GP, Ryan Strom's 43.93 xGF% 5-18-23 0.53 P/GP and Leo Carlsson's 48.42 xGF% 8-10-18 0.67 P/GP and but he provides enough defense to think he makes that group stronger...especially defensively.

Then you have Girard as well. I dreamed of us getting Gudas to pair with Girard. I think pairing him with Radko would give Anaheim an excellent 2nd pair. At even strength this season Sammy has maintained a 54.57 xGF% which is good for third on the team behind the dynamic duo. He's got 11 points in 26 games and is on pace for 0.42 P/GP. Also, in my opinion has been playing well all season. I'm also not sure how many people have picked up on it, but since returning from the program, he's been a much more physical player. I'm not saying he doesn't avoid hits, every sane player does, but he doesn't run from them and he's really begun skating... to finish checks. He's been playing the body a lot more. If Sam had developed some hesitancy in his game as the result of getting physically abused, it appears that hesitancy is gone now. I can't help but think he'd be an upgrade over LaCombe or Vaakanainen. I mean their D is Gudas, Mintyukov, Vaakanainen, the corpse of Fowler, Lacombe, and something called a Lyubushkin.

I honestly don't see why the little ball of hate wouldn't do this. He's not just collecting picks anymore. He's got the young talent and needs to build a competing team. I'm really happy with both Ross' and G's play. I don't want to trade either of them, but 2C is just too big of a need and that position is just too important. To finally have 2C solved for three runs and knowing he'd still be restricted at the end. This is exactly the same situation I was hoping for when I first stumbled on the idea of Hayton. I'll be honest, I might be tempted to add if necessary, but I actually think that's a very fair deal. If they wanted Byram instead of Girard, I'd want to give them RyJo instead of Colton but I'm sure that wouldn't be an issue for Verbeek.
 

henchman21

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Ok so let me ask you this.

Do you feel Cal Ritchie is as lazy as Dylan Strome was/is?
I don’t think he’s as lazy as Strome was… but I don’t think we are talking different colors, just different shades. Both are perimeter guys who coaches want attacking the dirty areas consistently. If Strome ever did that, he would have been an 80 point dominant center. The mentality never came around for him and with a meh effort it just never worked.

I was in the minority in his draft year calling this out and his career has basically turned out like I thought.

The mentality for Ritchie is what has to change. You see it in spurts (this happened with Strome too), but it never seems to stick. It has to stick. If it does, he has a much better chance at sticking as an impact center. If he doesn’t, he will bounce around to a few teams and settle in as a passable center on a bad team.
 
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Perratrooper

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Why wouldn't he? It sounds to me like Zegras is being shopped. Is he really going to fetch better than a good #3D and great 3C? I'd pull the trigger myself but reluctantly. We'd have to get another 3C because I am not giving Ryan Johansen 3rd line minutes in the playoffs if I can avoid it and as much as I love Cogs and Olof, they are not 3Cs for Stanley Cup run.

Trevor Zegras
2023-24 45.94 xGF% 4-3-7 in 20 GP 0.35 P/GP
2022-23 41.76 xGF% 23-42-65 in 82GP 0.80 P/GP
2021-22 46.59 xGF% 23-38-61 in 75GP 0.81 P/GP
2020-21 48.24 xGF% 3-10-13 in 24GP 0.54 P/GP

The points are more than good enough, with the exception of the few games he's played this season. The lackluster xGF% is a concern but then again...Trevor is playing for the Anaheim Ducks. They haven't had a center who played more than 10 games end a season with an xGF% > 50.00 since before at least the 2020/21 season. I quit pulling the season reports on natural stat trick at this point.

As for the Ducks, Ross' got an even strength xGF% of 52.31 10-13-23 0.51 P/GP so his production falls below that of Mason McTavish's 43.27 xGF% 13-15-28 0.72 P/GP, Ryan Strom's 43.93 xGF% 5-18-23 0.53 P/GP and Leo Carlsson's 48.42 xGF% 8-10-18 0.67 P/GP and but he provides enough defense to think he makes that group stronger...especially defensively.

Then you have Girard as well. I dreamed of us getting Gudas to pair with Girard. I think pairing him with Radko would give Anaheim an excellent 2nd pair. At even strength this season Sammy has maintained a 54.57 xGF% which is good for third on the team behind the dynamic duo. He's got 11 points in 26 games and is on pace for 0.42 P/GP. Also, in my opinion has been playing well all season. I'm also not sure how many people have picked up on it, but since returning from the program, he's been a much more physical player. I'm not saying he doesn't avoid hits, every sane player does, but he doesn't run from them and he's really begun skating... to finish checks. He's been playing the body a lot more. If Sam had developed some hesitancy in his game as the result of getting physically abused, it appears that hesitancy is gone now. I can't help but think he'd be an upgrade over LaCombe or Vaakanainen. I mean their D is Gudas, Mintyukov, Vaakanainen, the corpse of Fowler, Lacombe, and something called a Lyubushkin.

I honestly don't see why the little ball of hate wouldn't do this. He's not just collecting picks anymore. He's got the young talent and needs to build a competing team. I'm really happy with both Ross' and G's play. I don't want to trade either of them, but 2C is just too big of a need and that position is just too important. To finally have 2C solved for three runs and knowing he'd still be restricted at the end. This is exactly the same situation I was hoping for when I first stumbled on the idea of Hayton. I'll be honest, I might be tempted to add if necessary, but I actually think that's a very fair deal. If they wanted Byram instead of Girard, I'd want to give them RyJo instead of Colton but I'm sure that wouldn't be an issue for Verbeek.

I really appreciate you going into such depth to provide an explanation, but I think you’re overlooking the fact that they have a player who was called up today in Zellerger that projects to fill the same role as Girard. If you ask Duck’s fans they tell you that they believe they don’t have room for a LHD. So already we aren’t starting off with a piece they’re looking for. Then you mix in the fact that while Colton is decent, he’s likely a bit too old for their core as he’s likely well on the decline by the time they are hitting their primes.

I already discussed this with their fans in detail today and they wouldn’t trade Zegras for Byram even with us adding and I can’t say I blame them. Zegras is a proven 60+ point top 6 center signed for two more years at a reasonable cap hit and plays the most difficult position to find in hockey.

Unfortunately I don’t think we’re gonna be able to land Zegras unless we are making a three-way trade.
 

expatriatedtexan

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I really appreciate you going into such depth to provide an explanation, but I think you’re overlooking the fact that they have a player who was called up today in Zellerger that projects to fill the same role as Girard. If you ask Duck’s fans they tell you that they believe they don’t have room for a LHD. So already we aren’t starting off with a piece they’re looking for. Then you mix in the fact that while Colton is decent, he’s likely a bit too old for their core as he’s likely well on the decline by the time they are hitting their primes.

I already discussed this with their fans in detail today and they wouldn’t trade Zegras for Byram even with us adding and I can’t say I blame them. Zegras is a proven 60+ point top 6 center signed for two more years at a reasonable cap hit and plays the most difficult position to find in hockey.

Unfortunately I don’t think we’re gonna be able to land Zegras unless we are making a three-way trade.
To be honest, I would like Zegras and I would do the trade because I think the gamble would be worth it, but I do have reservations about him defensively and being the long-term 2C solution for us so I wouldn't be heartbroken by them declining the offer.

If we haven't solved the 2C long-term by the end of the season, maybe we could revisit in June when Manson submits his 12 team no-trade list if bringing the big RD home would move the dial for them any.
 
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I don’t think he’s as lazy as Strome was… but I don’t think we are talking different colors, just different shades. Both are perimeter guys who coaches want attacking the dirty areas consistently. If Strome ever did that, he would have been an 80 point dominant center. The mentality never came around for him and with a meh effort it just never worked.

I was in the minority in his draft year calling this out and his career has basically turned out like I thought.

The mentality for Ritchie is what has to change. You see it in spurts (this happened with Strome too), but it never seems to stick. It has to stick. If it does, he has a much better chance at sticking as an impact center. If he doesn’t, he will bounce around to a few teams and settle in as a passable center on a bad team.

I’d be curious what type of effect having MacKinnon and (hopefully) Nuke, Lehky, etc around would have on him.
 

expatriatedtexan

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I been burned for saying it before but I wanna keep this one. I was wrong about Jost and Newhook but this one feels different.
I mean, I wouldn't offer him first in a trade but unless you believe he can play 2C next season, we really can't afford to turn down a trade that would solve the 2C position for the next 3+ seasons even if he's a mandatory piece in the deal.
 
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