AV

[True Blue]

want him to adapt to this roster. What we see us av standing up to sather and saying "bro you lied to me... This team sucks... So what we see now is av calling out sather for putting him between a rock and a hard place...

Maybe he should not be allowed to adapt the roster because the hallmark of a good coach is getting the most out of his players. That is clearly not happening. And off course, NONE of this addresses that the team has become a bunch of unprepared, lazy floaters with ZERO mental toughness. THAT is squarely on AV.

Which certainly does not give Jackass a free pass. The fish does rot from the head down, after all.

 

[Callagraves]

I think people forget how much impact AV had on the development of the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa, etc. It's not like he was handed a bunch of elite veteran talent and went along for the ride. He molded quite a few very good players.

For all of the grief he gets for not being able to motivate these players, I have a hard time faulting him for it. This is basically the same core of players who quit on Renney and then got their last coach ****-canned as well. I don't see the point in building a team around a group who seems to rely solely upon the coaching staff to get them motivated. If it really is a country club attitude again, then we have to start looking at the guys who have been here the whole time. Cally, Girardi, Staal, Hank, etc. On the other hand, if it was a result of bringing in guys like Richards and Nash, then I have to question the same group once again for caving to a couple of mercenaries who cash big paychecks.

I applaud Torts for getting the most out of a mediocre roster, but guys like that have a shelf life. They're supposed to push teams over the top. IMO, AV is a good coach for ushering in a new era for this team, the same way Renney did. The real blame lies with Sather for misreading the team in the summer of 2012, misreading what he had this summer, and catering to the players wishes. That being said, I don't think Tortorella would have gotten much out of this group of players either. If they checked out at the end of last year, they wouldn't have responded to him at all this season.

Not to call you out, but I've never seen anything other than rumor that suggests that this actually happened.

 

[pld459666]

Renny has lost the room. He's gotta go.

Torts can't generate an offensive scheme, his PP is brutal. He's gotta go

AV is not getting from this group what we as fans thought they could offer. He's gotta go.

I'm thinking it's not the last three HC's that are at fault here. I'm thinking the man that constructed this abomination.

We need stop the patch work repairs and fix the problem.

Part of that problem is the core of the team is not talented enough both offensively and defensively.

We have ONE elite level player and that Hank. Nash has the size to be elite, but not the heart, drive or desire to be a difference maker every night.

I can on;t speak for myself, but there's not one player on this team right now I would not consider moving if the offer was right.

Unfortunately as long as Sather and band of front office idiots are making the decisions, I do not trust them to identify the right players to play in NY.

Guys come here to wilt and die. We need guys to come in here like Messier did when first acquired. I'm talking about his attitude, drive and will.

We have a bus load of passengers with no one willing or capable of driving the buss.

 

[pld459666]

Not to call you out, but I've never seen anything other than rumor that suggests that this actually happened.

most successful HC for the Rangers in the last 15+ years gets fired after a 2nd round exit from the PO's for what reason exactly?

No one will ever say it, just like no one confirmed that Messier directed Neil Smith to fire Roger Neilson. We know 1000% it happened, but no one will confirm it with any certainty.

regarding the latter, the closest I have heard was that Messier stated that he did not believe they could win playing that style.

That's a nice way of saying fire thsi dude.

So, it's easy to deduce that you have a coach that has gotten to the 2nd round twice and the CF a 3rd year gets fired it's the GM catering to a few of his players.

I have a hard time reading, but even I can read between THOSE lines.

 

[Callagraves]

most successful HC for the Rangers in the last 15+ years gets fired after a 2nd round exit from the PO's for what reason exactly?

No one will ever say it, just like no one confirmed that Messier directed Neil Smith to fire Roger Neilson. We know 1000% it happened, but no one will confirm it with any certainty.

regarding the latter, the closest I have heard was that Messier stated that he did not believe they could win playing that style.

That's a nice way of saying fire thsi dude.

So, it's easy to deduce that you have a coach that has gotten to the 2nd round twice and the CF a 3rd year gets fired it's the GM catering to a few of his players.

I have a hard time reading, but even I can read between THOSE lines.

Honestly? I think Sather thought he was making some brilliant move, bringing in a HC who would "unleash" some of these players. Another move in the long line of "1 piece away" decisions.

Also, Torts had received a TON of bad press, partly due to his relationship with the press, even being jeered by other teams fans. The Rangers went into that season with the expectation of ECF or better, and it wasn't even close to that level from the start. They just came off a fantastic season, they added "superstar" Rick Nash, so what could it be?

Well, they looked at the coach.

It's true, he needed to adapt his system. And I think he would have done so in the summer. We'll never know, because now we're stuck with another ****-awful "one move away" move in AV.

 

[pld459666]

Honestly? I think Sather thought he was making some brilliant move, bringing in a HC who would "unleash" some of these players. Another move in the long line of "1 piece away" decisions.

Also, Torts had received a TON of bad press, partly due to his relationship with the press, even being jeered by other teams fans. The Rangers went into that season with the expectation of ECF or better, and it wasn't even close to that level from the start. They just came off a fantastic season, they added "superstar" Rick Nash, so what could it be?

Well, they looked at the coach.

It's true, he needed to adapt his system. And I think he would have done so in the summer. We'll never know, because now we're stuck with another ****-awful "one move away" move in AV.

I think that Torts starting grinding guys a little to much and as he alluded to, his relationship with Brad Richards was broken and he took responsibility for that.

When your guy in the room is no longer your guy, it hurts your ability to deliver the message you want delivered.

I also blame Callahan for this as well.

At some point as Captain of the team, HE has got to tell Torts when to **** off. At the end of the day, players play for each other, not the coach.

Don't know if he did or didn't do this, but Callahan has to be the guy to tell the HC when he's riding them to much.

I get the feeling that Cally never did that, or Torts ignored him which will have an adverse effect on the group.

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

I applaud Torts for getting the most out of a mediocre roster, but guys like that have a shelf life. They're supposed to push teams over the top. IMO, AV is a good coach for ushering in a new era for this team, the same way Renney did. The real blame lies with Sather for misreading the team in the summer of 2012, misreading what he had this summer, and catering to the players wishes. That being said, I don't think Tortorella would have gotten much out of this group of players either. If they checked out at the end of last year, they wouldn't have responded to him at all this season.

I have to say I agree with you about the AV being a good choice for a "new era" (even though it really is a type of continuation of the previous era, as the players and upper management are the same).

If the motivation doesn't pick up this season, I'll agree that Sather is mostly at fault, too.

However, I see the biggest problem as play in the defensive side of the rink. The team is helter-skelter back there, and opponents are feasting on errors and giveaways that seem to leave incredibly high-percentage openings for opposition scores. When the Rangers control play in their end, their offense can get started. Without this control, the games tend to get out of hand.

If AV can organize the team D things will fall into place this season.

If the players begin dictating in their own zone, protecting their crease, I think the result will be increased overall confidence in all zones. This may end up solving the motivation issue.

Posters who have noted the difficult change in defensive zone strategy from Tortorella to AV are quite right, I think, to do so. It's a hard transition for a player when the majority of a pro career has been spent following one set of rules. Old habits die hard.

Some players, in the end, may not be able to transition. For example, Girardi is a smart guy but one who seems like he may be having trouble. AV and Sather need to give him a chance but he'll need to be evaluated fairly as the team moves forward.

 

[Riverdale]

Renny has lost the room. He's gotta go.

Torts can't generate an offensive scheme, his PP is brutal. He's gotta go

AV is not getting from this group what we as fans thought they could offer. He's gotta go.

I'm thinking it's not the last three HC's that are at fault here. I'm thinking the man that constructed this abomination.

We need stop the patch work repairs and fix the problem.

Part of that problem is the core of the team is not talented enough both offensively and defensively.

We have ONE elite level player and that Hank. Nash has the size to be elite, but not the heart, drive or desire to be a difference maker every night.

I can on;t speak for myself, but there's not one player on this team right now I would not consider moving if the offer was right.

Unfortunately as long as Sather and band of front office idiots are making the decisions, I do not trust them to identify the right players to play in NY.

Guys come here to wilt and die. We need guys to come in here like Messier did when first acquired. I'm talking about his attitude, drive and will.

We have a bus load of passengers with no one willing or capable of driving the buss.

Agreed. Except the only one i would not trade is McD. In addition to his skill and potential he seems to enjoy being a Ranger and proud to wear the jersey. I could see him as a captain some day

 

[TheTakedown]

Is Man-to-man defense inherintly "better" than zone defense?

Serious question. The only thing I've come up with is that it allows you line match, even for defensive strategies. Clearly AV favors line matching, since you'll see him throw specific lines out to oppose the oppositions specific lines...

Beyond the line match, I'm not quite sure why man-to-man defense is even favorable. Zone looks much easier and efficient to me

 

[Trxjw]

Not to call you out, but I've never seen anything other than rumor that suggests that this actually happened.

It isn't that hard to read between the lines, and there has been enough information leaked about the players' opinion of Torts to draw that conclusion.

 

[Callagraves]

I think that Torts starting grinding guys a little to much and as he alluded to, his relationship with Brad Richards was broken and he took responsibility for that.

When your guy in the room is no longer your guy, it hurts your ability to deliver the message you want delivered.

I also blame Callahan for this as well.

At some point as Captain of the team, HE has got to tell Torts when to **** off. At the end of the day, players play for each other, not the coach.

Don't know if he did or didn't do this, but Callahan has to be the guy to tell the HC when he's riding them to much.

I get the feeling that Cally never did that, or Torts ignored him which will have an adverse effect on the group.

Except, I remember that early into that season the Leaders of the team went to Torts and told him he was riding the guys too hard. we were coming out looking flat-footed and exhausted.

They continued to look lazy, so Torts re-ramped up the training, and they (a little bit) came out of it.

Torts may have been a miserable tactician, but the effectiveness of his training camps can't be overstated.

 

[Callagraves]

It isn't that hard to read between the lines, and there has been enough information leaked about the players' opinion of Torts to draw that conclusion.

I find it tough to believe that someone as seasoned and experience as Sather, considering his job security, would fire a coach whom he built a team for based on player opinion.

I could be wrong. I only know as much as the next guy. Whether or not the players wanted him gone, I don't know. Richards and he have a well established relationship, Callahan is a player tailor made for his style, and the entire defense core played beyond expectations under him.

 

[Raspewtin]

Is Man-to-man defense inherintly "better" than zone defense?

Serious question. The only thing I've come up with is that it allows you line match, even for defensive strategies. Clearly AV favors line matching, since you'll see him throw specific lines out to oppose the oppositions specific lines...

Beyond the line match, I'm not quite sure why man-to-man defense is even favorable. Zone looks much easier and efficient to me

I believe AV and co implement man defense to make his breakouts quicker and more efficient. Playing collapsing, zone D stifles breakouts and puck transitioning. AV's offensive system relies VERY heavily on the D moving the puck (look at the insane point totals his D corps have collected over the years). Man has it's serious deficiencies but if you have guys that can play the puck and transition it, it would be very highly effective. It's one of the reasons Vancouver was such a damn good team the last few years.

 

[Trxjw]

I find it tough to believe that someone as seasoned and experience as Sather, considering his job security, would fire a coach whom he built a team for based on player opinion.

I could be wrong. I only know as much as the next guy. Whether or not the players wanted him gone, I don't know. Richards and he have a well established relationship, Callahan is a player tailor made for his style, and the entire defense core played beyond expectations under him.

Come on, really? You find that hard to believe? The same guy that has signed and burned countless free agents and has yet to learn his lesson? The same guy who continues to mismanage the team and, in his own words, said there was untapped ability in this lineup?

Sather is as clueless as anyone. For being "seasoned and experienced" he certainly has nothing to show for it since 1988.

 

[pld459666]

Except, I remember that early into that season the Leaders of the team went to Torts and told him he was riding the guys too hard. we were coming out looking flat-footed and exhausted.

They continued to look lazy, so Torts re-ramped up the training, and they (a little bit) came out of it.

Torts may have been a miserable tactician, but the effectiveness of his training camps can't be overstated.

but last year they had no real camp (1 week) and I have no recollection of Callahan stepping up to Torts in regards to riding the team to hard.

In fact I think in that instance, Callahan was wrong to say it. Early in the 2012-13 season was Mid February. In a 48 game season, in the words of the great Yogi Berra, "it gets late early"

Guys needed to driven.

It's not the grinding part that wears on the player. It's the way Torts treats guys when he grinds them.

Coming out looking unprepaired is was and always will be on the Head Coaches. Their job is to get them ready to play the next opponent. If the team continued to come out flat, that's on Torts.

Now, I don't completely absolve the players as they need to take that responsibility on themselves, but that goes towards not having a guy on the team with an aggressive mindset that is willing to take the ****ing bull by the horns and ACTUALLY lead thsi team.

I love Callahan, and for on ice leadership I don't think that there's a better choice. I'm just not sure that his off-ice leadership is translating.

 

[pld459666]

I find it tough to believe that someone as seasoned and experience as Sather, considering his job security, would fire a coach whom he built a team for based on player opinion.

I could be wrong. I only know as much as the next guy. Whether or not the players wanted him gone, I don't know. Richards and he have a well established relationship, Callahan is a player tailor made for his style, and the entire defense core played beyond expectations under him.

Sather hired Bryan Trottier becasue of the 50 pags hand written (front and back) reply to a Sather questionaire.

I doubt Sather read the ****ing thing, but he hand wrote it...in pencil!!!

Sather is an idiot with no vision and no goal.

 

[TheTakedown]

Well I have some good news for y'all...

Looks like Edmonton fans are furious with Eakins:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1566865

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Sather hired Bryan Trottier becasue of the 50 pags hand written (front and back) reply to a Sather questionaire.

I doubt Sather read the ****ing thing, but he hand wrote it...in pencil!!!

Sather is an idiot with no vision and no goal.

i think the only way Sather is not GM of the New York Rangers is when he passes away at the next Rangers press conference..... until then Rangers are stuck with this *******

 

[silverfish]

Well I have some good news for y'all...

Looks like Edmonton fans are furious with Eakins:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1566865

Who cares. Eakins wasn't the answer here either.

It was Ruff. It was always Ruff.

Actually, it's getting rid of Sather - but we all know that ain't happening.

 

[TheTakedown]

Who cares. Eakins wasn't the answer here either.

It was Ruff. It was always Ruff.

Actually, it's getting rid of Sather - but we all know that ain't happening.

why Ruff? Just curious

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

It does appear that the team got tired of Torts.

The problem is that the team jettisoned our only successful coach this decade, and then proceeded to **** the bed. I'm not a fan of that.

 

[chosen]

What's your theory? Take away Torey Krug's easy goals and it's a totally different series.

My theory is that the Bruins were the better team. If you believe otherwise than you believe a chimp would be a better coach than AV.

 

[Callagraves]

Come on, really? You find that hard to believe? The same guy that has signed and burned countless free agents and has yet to learn his lesson? The same guy who continues to mismanage the team and, in his own words, said there was untapped ability in this lineup?

Sather is as clueless as anyone. For being "seasoned and experienced" he certainly has nothing to show for it since 1988.

Allow me to rephrase.

I WOULD HATE TO BELIEVE THAT.

I am trying to believe in this team.

 

[Mikos87]

Management already misrepresented what type of player Del Zotto is and now he and AV don't have the best relationship. Going forward, I hope AV and the coaching staff do their own research.

Overstated and under scouted. Let's not forget that AV had more time for vacationing and recreation since we wasn't studying his team in the film room.

What do you hear athletes say after a loss or a broken play? They say that they have to see it on film and study as to how to get better.

The freaking coach couldn't spend one gosh darn hour in the film room this summer... what sort of effort and work ethic would someone expect out of the team he is supposed to coach.

Does not preparing for your job, and stating your ideologies are better than the output of the product that he is responsible for make for a genius?

AV seems like he wants to just feel smart in NYC like every dolled up little daddy's boy downtown rather than actually producing or achieving.

 

[Oak]

Let's recap exactly what occurred this summer.

Glen Sather fires John Tortorella, with many issues to discern through but Glen Sather's biggest justification being that he wanted a different style of hockey. One focusing more on puck possession and an open flowing, offensive mindset.

Glen Sather hires Alain Vigneault, a guy who, with a roster built for puck possession and dynamic offensive movement, had much success with the Vancouver Canucks. Glen hires him with this in mind, hoping he can help turn the Rangers into that style of team.

You now want Alain Vigneault to "adjust" and move away from the style he was specifically hired for and which he specifically specializes in so that he can move back to the very style of play that Glen Sather fired John Tortorella for in the first place? A style of play that, aside from one season, Tortorella had no success beyond a few 6-8 seeds and early playoff exits?

That's literally just walking around in circles. Like I said. Pick Scotty Bowman. Or Joel Quenneville. How about Claude Julien? Nope. Pick any coach you want. There's no "style of play" that accounts for a team deprived of ample talent. Everyone here just talks about "adjustments." Nobody is capable of saying exactly what the specific tactical adjustments should be. 1-3-1, overload, umbrella, whatever. There's no tactical approach that will put us on par with a team like Chicago, San Jose, St. Louis, Boston, etc. We don't have the talent.

More people need to read this. Im sick of the cry babies on this board that are *****ing about AV. This is a mess Sather created and he is doing what he was hired to do.

You want to complain? Start writing to MSG with demands for Sathers firing.