Tribute Auston Matthews Discussion Thread II: Record Breaking Edition

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they were so pissed too.. Haha. The narrative was " not a fifty goal scorer, not a hundred point player" get they wanted him out of here bad.. Lmfao.
That was back when they complained how he never had at least 70 points in a season or 30 assists. It was a stupid argument saying those negative things about him, even though they wanted to see Arizona give him a huge offer sheet.
 
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A lot of that comes from Leafs haters who want to see Matthews leave Toronto as a UFA.

Before he signed his current contract, they wished that Arizona would be able to sign him as an RFA. However, that never happened since he re-signed on February 5, 2019, and never became an RFA.
I'm talking about on tv even and the more mainstream hockey sites. It's a subject for regular speculation and not just on forums like this.


Looks like Pookie's back under another handle. You're way too obvious.
I'm not Pookie.
 
I think there is a small possibility that Matthews could leave Toronto and sign with Arizona, but it is very unlikely because a LOT of things would have to happen, and the Leafs would need to make some mistakes along the way. If the Leafs give him what he wants in terms of money, don't ask for any kind of a 'home town discount', all of this goes away this summer.

The ONLY way he could leave would have to be all (or at least most) of the following:

-Matthews isn't wowed by the leafs offer this summer, and decides to negotiate with them for something better and that drags on.

-The Leafs WIN the cup this year. I think Matthews would ge more likely to leave if the Leafs win, he can hold onto his 'hero' status here, be a cup winner and then go home. If the Leafs dont' win the cup, I actually think that bodes better for him staying.

-He has to know, of have it communicated to him somehow, that the Coyotes are going to make him the HIGHEST paid player in the league by far with a long term deal, make him the face of the franchise and he would have ample marketing opportunities waiting for him upon signing there.

-Whenever this spring the voters in Arizona vote for or against the proposal for that $2billion+ package including a temple of a new Arena, that gets passed and would be open/built in the prime of Matthews next contract.

-The Coyotes have to get better, now. They finished last year with 57 points. This year they are on pace for 65 points. If they can finish with 70 or more this year that would help.

-Matthews either already loves the Arizona Coaching staff, or you basically let him know he is going to be instrumental in choosing the next coaching staff.

-Arizona Wins the draft lottery this year, or at least picks in the top 3 and gets a great, nhl-ready prospect.

Is all that likely to happen? Nope. Can Toronto make it a moot point by not low-balling him or asking for a home town discount? Yes they can. But, if ALL of the above happened (which isn't likely I know), I think the idea of him signing in AZ is not out of the question.
 
I think there is a small possibility that Matthews could leave Toronto and sign with Arizona, but it is very unlikely because a LOT of things would have to happen, and the Leafs would need to make some mistakes along the way. If the Leafs give him what he wants in terms of money, don't ask for any kind of a 'home town discount', all of this goes away this summer.

The ONLY way he could leave would have to be all (or at least most) of the following:

-Matthews isn't wowed by the leafs offer this summer, and decides to negotiate with them for something better and that drags on.

-The Leafs WIN the cup this year. I think Matthews would ge more likely to leave if the Leafs win, he can hold onto his 'hero' status here, be a cup winner and then go home. If the Leafs dont' win the cup, I actually think that bodes better for him staying.

-He has to know, of have it communicated to him somehow, that the Coyotes are going to make him the HIGHEST paid player in the league by far with a long term deal, make him the face of the franchise and he would have ample marketing opportunities waiting for him upon signing there.

-Whenever this spring the voters in Arizona vote for or against the proposal for that $2billion+ package including a temple of a new Arena, that gets passed and would be open/built in the prime of Matthews next contract.

-The Coyotes have to get better, now. They finished last year with 57 points. This year they are on pace for 65 points. If they can finish with 70 or more this year that would help.

-Matthews either already loves the Arizona Coaching staff, or you basically let him know he is going to be instrumental in choosing the next coaching staff.

-Arizona Wins the draft lottery this year, or at least picks in the top 3 and gets a great, nhl-ready prospect.

Is all that likely to happen? Nope. Can Toronto make it a moot point by not low-balling him or asking for a home town discount? Yes they can. But, if ALL of the above happened (which isn't likely I know), I think the idea of him signing in AZ is not out of the question.
He's not leaving his buddies and lifestyle here to go play with bedard if they get him. Arizona is a disaster and he won't leave for fhem. Zero percent chance imo. I don't think he leaves. Why would he? He can .and money until he's dead singing memorabilia. If he wins a single cup he's kids kids won't have to pay for a meal here. I think he's a leaf for life, which includes coaching/management of he so choses. He ain't going anywhere.

Now that kid in edmonton. He's gone first chance
 
I'm talking about on tv even and the more mainstream hockey sites. It's a subject for regular speculation and not just on forums like this.
The only proof from any NHL Insiders about Arizona wanting to sign Matthews to an offer sheet was these comments from Elliotte Friedman.


“The Toronto Maple Leafs 100% believed that if Auston Matthews got to July 1 last year, Arizona was going to offer-sheet him seven years, the max,” Friedman said. “And I’ve looked at it, and people around the league have told me they believe that to be the case.

“Nobody has said to me that’s false. I think the Leafs believed it, I think the Coyotes were going to do it and I think the league knew it. So the attitude is moving.”


That doesn't mean there was Leafs haters on here who bashed Matthews and still wanted to him to sign an offer sheet with Arizona, which would make them look like hypocrites.
 
It’s approaching unfinished business for Auston Matthews… he’s not leaving Toronto without the Cup, every possible Maple Leafs record… and a statue on Legend’s Row.
 
I think there is a small possibility that Matthews could leave Toronto and sign with Arizona, but it is very unlikely because a LOT of things would have to happen, and the Leafs would need to make some mistakes along the way. If the Leafs give him what he wants in terms of money, don't ask for any kind of a 'home town discount', all of this goes away this summer.

The ONLY way he could leave would have to be all (or at least most) of the following:

-Matthews isn't wowed by the leafs offer this summer, and decides to negotiate with them for something better and that drags on.

-The Leafs WIN the cup this year. I think Matthews would ge more likely to leave if the Leafs win, he can hold onto his 'hero' status here, be a cup winner and then go home. If the Leafs dont' win the cup, I actually think that bodes better for him staying.

-He has to know, of have it communicated to him somehow, that the Coyotes are going to make him the HIGHEST paid player in the league by far with a long term deal, make him the face of the franchise and he would have ample marketing opportunities waiting for him upon signing there.

-Whenever this spring the voters in Arizona vote for or against the proposal for that $2billion+ package including a temple of a new Arena, that gets passed and would be open/built in the prime of Matthews next contract.

-The Coyotes have to get better, now. They finished last year with 57 points. This year they are on pace for 65 points. If they can finish with 70 or more this year that would help.

-Matthews either already loves the Arizona Coaching staff, or you basically let him know he is going to be instrumental in choosing the next coaching staff.

-Arizona Wins the draft lottery this year, or at least picks in the top 3 and gets a great, nhl-ready prospect.

Is all that likely to happen? Nope. Can Toronto make it a moot point by not low-balling him or asking for a home town discount? Yes they can. But, if ALL of the above happened (which isn't likely I know), I think the idea of him signing in AZ is not out of the question.

Worth noting that the very earliest Arizona would have a new arena would be 2025. And that's if everything goes perfectly, and they don't even have an agreement with the municipality..meaning a more accurate guess would be 2026+.

Matthews would be leaving the team that spends the most on players off ice needs/facilities to the team that pays the least, and would be playing with 2nd tier college facilities and would be forced to use them for multiple seasons.

Not exactly the most attractive selling point when trying to lure a star player
 
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Besides the fact Auston has already reached an Epic level of celebrity here in Toronto and is literally adored by millions.
 
Worth noting that the very earliest Arizona would have a new arena would be 2025. And that's if everything goes perfectly, and they don't even have an agreement with the municipality..meaning a more accurate guess would be 2026+.

Matthews would be leaving the team that spends the most on players off ice needs/facilities to the team that pays the least, and would be playing with 2nd tier college facilities and would be forced to use them for multiple seasons.

Not exactly the most attractive selling point when trying to lure a star player

Agreed. It is possible Matthews could leave. I would not bet on it, and it depends on what happens in the next year and a half. It will not be for Arizona though. You mentioned 2025, that's the best case, and when has the best case scenario happened for anything in Arizona? He's not going to play in a neighborhood arena for a few years.
 
The only proof from any NHL Insiders about Arizona wanting to sign Matthews to an offer sheet was these comments from Elliotte Friedman.


“The Toronto Maple Leafs 100% believed that if Auston Matthews got to July 1 last year, Arizona was going to offer-sheet him seven years, the max,” Friedman said. “And I’ve looked at it, and people around the league have told me they believe that to be the case.

“Nobody has said to me that’s false. I think the Leafs believed it, I think the Coyotes were going to do it and I think the league knew it. So the attitude is moving.”


That doesn't mean there was Leafs haters on here who bashed Matthews and still wanted to him to sign an offer sheet with Arizona, which would make them look like hypocrites.
Yeah ok. I didn't say Arizona wanted to sign him to an offer sheet. I said there was speculation about him remaining here. About the status of his current contract. And I don't know if there were Leafs haters on here bashing him or not. Because that's not what I was talking about. You brought it up for some reason. But when I'm talking about the Leafs haters on this forum I'll send you the memo there champ.
 
The only proof from any NHL Insiders about Arizona wanting to sign Matthews to an offer sheet was these comments from Elliotte Friedman.


“The Toronto Maple Leafs 100% believed that if Auston Matthews got to July 1 last year, Arizona was going to offer-sheet him seven years, the max,” Friedman said. “And I’ve looked at it, and people around the league have told me they believe that to be the case.

“Nobody has said to me that’s false. I think the Leafs believed it, I think the Coyotes were going to do it and I think the league knew it. So the attitude is moving.”


That doesn't mean there was Leafs haters on here who bashed Matthews and still wanted to him to sign an offer sheet with Arizona, which would make them look like hypocrites.
So Matthews was going to get a max contract offer as a 20 year old rfa from a team that would ALSO lose 4 first round picks. Ok. Well, now he has won a Hart and Richards and will be in his full out prime for pretty much all 8 years. And there's now NO 4 first-round pick compensation.

So how can the leafs expect to pay him anything less than max contract after next season?

The answer is that nobody was ever going to (lol) give him a max contract 4 years ago. But for those that maintain that delusion, how can they rationalize his next contract being anything less than max contract?
 
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So Matthews was going to get a max contract offer as a 20 year old rfa from a team that would ALSO lose 4 first round picks. Ok. Well, now he has won a Hart and Richards and will be in his full out prime for pretty much all 8 years. And there's now NO 4 first-round pick compensation.

So how can the leafs expect to pay him anything less than max contract after next season?

The answer is that nobody was ever going to (lol) give him a max contract 4 years ago. But for those that maintain that delusion, how can they rationalize his next contract being anything less than max contract?
The next 8 years may well be so called prime, but odds are We have seen Mathews best years. So if he gets a bigger deal it will be for worse production.
 
So Matthews was going to get a max contract offer as a 20 year old rfa from a team that would ALSO lose 4 first round picks. Ok. Well, now he has won a Hart and Richards and will be in his full out prime for pretty much all 8 years. And there's now NO 4 first-round pick compensation.

So how can the leafs expect to pay him anything less than max contract after next season?

The answer is that nobody was ever going to (lol) give him a max contract 4 years ago. But for those that maintain that delusion, how can they rationalize his next contract being anything less than max contract?
The only possible scenario is that over the past 5 years he has matured and has come to the realization that if he takes the max it makes it very difficult to build a winner around him.

Quite possibly he will want the max and in any other job or sport no one would bat an eye.

In a hard cap world, it leaves a bad taste in some mouths.
 
Acquiring a top tier player through ages 22-29 is more valuable than acquiring that player through ages 27-34, for the record.
But also, Matthews took what he had earned instead of waiting to potentially sign for max last time, so why would anybody think he would do anything other than take what he had earned instead of waiting to potentially sign for max this time?
 
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The only possible scenario is that over the past 5 years he has matured and has come to the realization that if he takes the max it makes it very difficult to build a winner around him.

Quite possibly he will want the max and in any other job or sport no one would bat an eye.

In a hard cap world, it leaves a bad taste in some mouths.
Has any player league wide signed for the max allowable?
I doubt very much he'll demand max, optics would be horrible.
 
The next 8 years may well be so called prime, but odds are We have seen Mathews best years. So if he gets a bigger deal it will be for worse production.
Not exactly, the Leafs still haven't optimized him on the powerplay the way you see with guys like Mackinnon, McDavid, prime Ovi and Drai.

Matthews could be far scarier on the powerplay ala Ovi/Stamkos. The issue is you need a threat from the point. Marner is great as pp QB, you don't need Rielly. All he does is swing the puck from Nylander to Matthews, no team is worried about his shot from that distance. What made Ovi so dangerous was you had Backstrom (Marner), Kuznetsov (Nylander), and then Carlson's bomb from the point, the Leafs don't have that so players can cheat onto Nylander or Matthews which takes their space away. Having a threat from Rielly's position would change so much for their powerplay.
 
So during rfa negotiations where they had no leverage, the young core squeezed every single solitary last penny they could get. But now that they're ufa's and have ALL leverage, they're going to be willing to take discounts for the team?

I honestly can't even take this any longer. The mental gymnastics, lies, and rhetoric is too much.
 
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So during rfa negotiations where they had no leverage, the young core squeezed every single solitary last penny they could get. But now that they're ufa's and have ALL leverage, they're going to be willing to take discounts for the team?
No. During RFA negotiations, when they had a ton of leverage, they wanted contracts that they had earned, that were consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts. During UFA negotiations, when they will have a ton of leverage, they most likely will want contracts that they have earned, that are consistent with the history of UFA contracts.
 
No. During RFA negotiations, when they had a ton of leverage, they wanted contracts that they had earned, that were consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts. During UFA negotiations, when they will have a ton of leverage, they most likely will want contracts that they have earned, that are consistent with the history of UFA contracts.
Players sign for more money as ufa's when they hold all the leverage than when they were rfa's.

You really think anybody will be fooled by anything you write that suggests otherwise?

The only exceptions were those ufa contracts that were like 12 years long and went into late 30's due to different cba rules.

If Marner held out all summer to get 11 mil when he had no leverage, what the hell do you think he's going to do now that he holds literally ALL the leverage?

Why would Matthews accept less than league maximum while in his prime when he could (lol) "allegedly" get it as an almost teenager?

The cba is specifically designed to give GM's significant leverage over rfa's.
 
Arizona has defaulted on paying player salaries before.

What good is being the highest paid player in the league (by a good margin) if the franchise paying you isn't even reliable.
 
Has any player league wide signed for the max allowable?
I doubt very much he'll demand max, optics would be horrible.
Before Connor McDavid signed his 8 year/$12.5 million contract, it was said if any player could have signed for the max allowable it would have been him.

The funny thing is starting next season Nathan MacKinnon's new contract of 8 years will start and he's going to make $12.6 million, so he's getting more than McDavid. I only bring him up because in December 2019, there was an article on nhl.com where he said he would be willing to take less money on his next contract. Even though he also didn't sign for the max allowable, it's one thing when players talk about taking less money and when they had to make that decision, we saw MacKinnon do the opposite.
 
So Matthews was going to get a max contract offer as a 20 year old rfa from a team that would ALSO lose 4 first round picks. Ok. Well, now he has won a Hart and Richards and will be in his full out prime for pretty much all 8 years. And there's now NO 4 first-round pick compensation.

So how can the leafs expect to pay him anything less than max contract after next season?

The answer is that nobody was ever going to (lol) give him a max contract 4 years ago. But for those that maintain that delusion, how can they rationalize his next contract being anything less than max contract?
Will never know what would have happened if Matthews became an RFA on July 1, 2019. However, I honestly believe that Arizona would have done everything possible for him to sign an offer sheet with them.

It was reported before the 2016 draft that they did everything they could to get the Leafs to trade them the 1st overall pick, because they wanted to draft him since he grew up in Scottsdale.
 
Players sign for more money as ufa's when they hold all the leverage than when they were rfa's.
Players do tend to have more leverage in UFA situations, and UFA contracts tend to be higher for a number of reasons - which leverage is one of, but the disparity in leverage tends to get massively exaggerated, especially for top tier players that hold significant leverage in any situation, because they are significant parts of a team that cannot be replaced by just cap space.

That also doesn't equate to them getting paid inconsistently with the history of UFA contracts, so it's unclear how you're trying to add that in.
The only exceptions were those ufa contracts that were like 12 years long and went into late 30's due to different cba rules.
Those took things to extremes, but they are actually a good illustration of how the ages that contracts run through affect cap hit, which adds a counterbalance to things like leverage disparities.
If Marner held out all summer to get 11 mil when he had no leverage, what the hell do you think he's going to do now that he holds literally ALL the leverage?
Marner had massive amounts of leverage when he held out for 10.9m - an amount consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts. I expect him to similarly want a contract consistent with the history of UFA contracts.
Why would Matthews accept less than league maximum while in his prime when he could (lol) "allegedly" get it as an almost teenager?
Why didn't all of the others players that didn't?
 

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