Tribute Auston Matthews Discussion Thread II: Record Breaking Edition

[leafsfan2point0]

A lot of comparisons when he was drafted was Kopitar mixed with Sakic

 

[Voodoo Child]

Matthews has more even strength points than McDavid... and McDavid has been on the ice for more even strength goals against than he's been on got goals for.

Mcdavid is on his way to more personal trophies but his team is on its way to another bad year.

Yes McDavid is better than Matthews. Matthews is elite or near-elite defensively which helps, especially since McDavid plays 26 a game.

But once more - Connor McPowerplay’s team is playing .543 hockey and essentially treading water in a weak division and conference. McDavid don’t perform, Edmonton don’t win.

Draisaitl? He either can’t or won’t play defensive hockey.

While after a hard start (again), the Leafs set poised to sleepwalk to 100-110 points and a first round matchup against probably Tampa. No one ever said it was fair.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Actually, since the Marner/Nylander swap, I would say the Matthews line is better defensively

And you'd be incorrect. Both Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Marner combos have better on-ice defensive results than Matthews-Nylander.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And you'd be incorrect. Both Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Marner combos have better on-ice defensive results than Matthews-Nylander.

As far as I recall, it was after the loss to Boston they switched.

Up to Nov 11, ES goals allowed:

Matthews - 13
Marner - 12
Kerfoot - 11
Nylander - 10
Tavares - 10

Since then:

Marner - 11
Tavares - 11
Matthews - 10
Nylander - 7

Since the swap, Matthews and Nylander are a combined +37 while Tavares and Marner are a combined +7.

 

[Dekes For Days]

As far as I recall, it was after the loss to Boston they switched.

Up to Nov 11, ES goals allowed:

Matthews - 13
Marner - 12
Kerfoot - 11
Nylander - 10
Tavares - 10

Since then:

Marner - 11
Tavares - 11
Matthews - 10
Nylander - 7

Since the swap, Matthews and Nylander are a combined +37 while Tavares and Marner are a combined +7.

It would appear that the reason you were incorrect was because you tried to evaluate defense like this.
Both Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Marner combos have better on-ice defensive results than Matthews-Nylander.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It would appear that the reason you were incorrect was because you tried to evaluate defense like this.
Both Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Marner combos have better on-ice defensive results than Matthews-Nylander.

Well, the stats support the eye test, so what can I say.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well, the stats support the eye test, so what can I say.

Yes, actual defensive stats do support the eye test in concluding that the Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Marner combos have been better defensively.

 

[Mess]

Well, the stats support the eye test, so what can I say.

Willy is a +14 and Matthews a +17 while JT is a -1 and Marner +4.

 

[PromisedLand]

View attachment 626711

Willy is a +14 and Matthews a +17 while JT is a -1 and Marner +4.

Matthews has been pretty good IMO. He has sacrificed his offensive stats to focus on defense. He hardly cheats and doesn't make moronic passes in the o-zone for turnovers either (extremely extremely rare).

Matthews and Willy have been pretty solid. The expectation was always that matthews, marner and nylander would keep improving, question was who will carry tavares as he declines/ages.

 

[MAB1]

As far as I recall, it was after the loss to Boston they switched.

Up to Nov 11, ES goals allowed:

Matthews - 13
Marner - 12
Kerfoot - 11
Nylander - 10
Tavares - 10

Since then:

Marner - 11
Tavares - 11
Matthews - 10
Nylander - 7

Since the swap, Matthews and Nylander are a combined +37 while Tavares and Marner are a combined +7.

Toronto hasn't lost to Boston this year.

 

[Mess]

Matthews has been pretty good IMO. He has sacrificed his offensive stats to focus on defense. He hardly cheats and doesn't make moronic passes in the o-zone for turnovers either (extremely extremely rare).

Matthews and Willy have been pretty solid. The expectation was always that matthews, marner and nylander would keep improving, question was who will carry tavares as he declines/ages.

At even strength Matthews and Nylander do not get scored on a lot.

JT is the biggest black hole defensively being a negative +/- player regardless of his winger and even Marner is not able to drag him out.

Tavares and Nylander struggled defensively earlier together but ever since they split Matthews and Marner the Leafs defensively have been better.

 

[PromisedLand]

At even strength Matthews and Nylander do not get scored on a lot.

JT is the biggest black hole defensively being a negative +/- player regardless of his winger and even Marner is not able to drag him out.

Tavares and Nylander struggled defensively earlier together but ever since they split Matthews and Marner the Leafs defensively have been better.

I've been calling for Tavares to start playing the wing. He isn't fast enough to play center. It is embarrassing to watch him skate. He should just take faceoffs and switch to wing.

given the limitation at present this is how I'd run the lines:

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Tavares - Kampf - Marner
Engvall-Kerfoot-Jankrok
XXX-Holmberg-XXX

it sucks that we have to break up the engvall-kampf-kerfoot line b/c they are playing really well but somethings gotta give IMO. Kampf is more than capable of stopping the leakage of goals from the 2nd line and will free up marner to play a bit more offensively.

Tavares gotta swallow his pride and realize he aint fast enough to play center anymore especially in today's modern NHL

 

[Dekes For Days]

Willy is a +14 and Matthews a +17 while JT is a -1 and Marner +4.

Oh good; we're going from bad measures of defense to even worse ones.

At even strength Matthews and Nylander do not get scored on a lot

Yep. In part because they've gotten 0.962 goaltending behind them while together.

ever since they split Matthews and Marner the Leafs defensively have been better.

That's false. Less goals have been going in primarily because we stopped playing our 4th stringer.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I've been calling for Tavares to start playing the wing. He isn't fast enough to play center.

Tavares is still an effective center, and if anything, speed (or at least acceleration, which is where he actually struggles) is more important on the wing than at center.

 

[PromisedLand]

Tavares is still an effective center, and if anything, speed (or at least acceleration, which is where he actually struggles) is more important on the wing than at center.

don't listen to me if you think that just listen to what one of the best centers ever to play the game has to say start at around 36:00 mins to 37:22 to see his answer

 

[Dekes For Days]

don't listen to me if you think that just listen to what one of the best centers ever to play the game has to say start at around 36:00 mins to 37:22 to see his answer

Not sure what you think anything he said there has to do with Tavares moving to wing.

 

[PromisedLand]

Not sure what you think anything he said there has to do with Tavares moving to wing.

talking to u is like talking to the wall. my mistake should not have engaged with you. like always you move the goal posts

bye

 

[Dekes For Days]

talking to u is like talking to the wall. my mistake should not have engaged with you. like always you move the goal posts

What goalposts do you think were moved? The video was your justification for claiming that Tavares needed to move to wing because of his speed, but there's nothing in the video that supports that. In fact, within that 90 second portion you highlighted, Crosby kind of contradicts your claim. He's asked about how his game has shifted away from flying through the middle with speed as he's aged, and Crosby talks about how that has more to do with how the game has evolved and how rushing with speed isn't really what the center position is about.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Toronto hasn't lost to Boston this year.

I did say Nov 11, but yes, Pittsburgh rather than Boston. Stupid autocorrect!

Does that invalidate everything else I said?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

don't listen to me if you think that just listen to what one of the best centers ever to play the game has to say start at around 36:00 mins to 37:22 to see his answer

Appeals to Authority are not strong arguments. You could refute anything by saying a good player said something different.

 

[PromisedLand]

Appeals to Authority are not strong arguments. You could refute anything by saying a good player said something different.

show me a slow center in the NHL today that is dominating with or without 11 AAV tag

thanks

 

[Gallagbi]

You arnt wrong in the sense that Willy is no Mitch Marner defensively which has had a slight effect on the Matthews line this season but even so:


Since start of 2020 to the present:

Ranking of some of the top defensive centers in the NHL 5v5:

Shots Against/60:
1. Bergeron
2. Matthews
3. Danault
4. Kopitar
5. Barkov
6. O'Reilly

Scoring Chances Against/60:
1. Bergeron
2. Barkov
3. Matthews
4. Danault
5. Kopitar
6. O'Reilly

High Danger Scoring Chances Against/60:
1. Bergeron
2. Matthews
3. Barkov
4. O'Reilly
5. Danault
6. Kopitar

xGA/60:
1. Bergeron
2. Matthews
3. Barkov
4. Danault
5. Kopitar
6. O'Reilly

Takeaways/60:
1. Matthews
2. Barkov
3. O'Reilly
4. Bergeron
5. Kopitar
6. Danault

Blocked Shots/60:
1. Kopitar
2. Matthews
3. Danault
4. Barkov
5. Bergeron
6. O'Reilly


Bergeron is the defensive god we all think he is but not only is Matthews great defensively but he is far better than some of the guys people think are elite.

Barkov is the most interesting to me as Matthews has had better defensive stats than him pretty much his whole career including the year Barkov won the Selke.

I really do think the wildly uneven goaltending has really contributed to him not getting recognition as there are too many morons in the press that equate Goals Against = D. If you have a tire fire in net, no amount of great D is going to help. Its not rocket science.

The two most underrated defensive players in the league are Matthews and Erikisson EK IMO.

Good company for Danault.

A lot of Matthews "missing" praise is that he doesn't PK.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Appeals to Authority are not strong arguments.

They're even worse when the authority they're appealing to disputes their own argument.

 

[Gabriel426]

show me a slow center in the NHL today that is dominating with or without 11 AAV tag

thanks

JT, lol.

For real, we can afford JT to be dominant here and there due to the other three playing well.
JT needs to pick his spots and be dominant when the team is struggling but so far, I have not seen him doing that barring a few shifts here and there.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Matthews has been pretty good IMO. He has sacrificed his offensive stats to focus on defense. He hardly cheats and doesn't make moronic passes in the o-zone for turnovers either (extremely extremely rare).

Matthews and Willy have been pretty solid. The expectation was always that matthews, marner and nylander would keep improving, question was who will carry tavares as he declines/ages.

He hasn't really sacrificed offense though he's just shooting well below his carerr average of 16.4%. If he continues his pace and get's back to that rate he'd be on pace for 59.7 goals this year. He's been snakebitten and shooting just 11% so far.