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Tribute Auston Matthews Discussion "the Beauty" Edition

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Dekes For Days said:
You do. I don't.


Shrinking sample sizes this small creates issues, and isn't really as representative of the consistent level of a player.

However, if you must... This year:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.81
Eichel: 2.62

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.54
Eichel: 1.78

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.51
Eichel: 5.63

PP P1/60

Matthews: 5.51
Eichel: 3.62

Matthews is easily better. And once again, this is with Eichel having an incredibly inflated ES OISH%.


Eichel has had worse linemate quality than many of his peers over his career, but not really worse than Matthews. This season specifically, Eichel's production is being helped tremendously by his linemates.
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Agreed about sample size of this season being too small but if people are saying he made the 'next step' this year it obviously will obscure that by averaging it out with last years stats.

Curious where you got these stats as I see some different numbers on NaturalStat for ES production rates?

For example:

ES P/60
Jack Eichel 3.09
Auston Matthews 2.95

ES P1/60
Auston Matthews 2.61
Jack Eichel 2.14


Pp production also are off from what I'm seeing too. Matthews is having the better ES season in general I would say though. Lots of breakaway style goals for Eichel and co (hence the high on ice shooting percentage and personal shooting percentage)
 
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Ziggdiezan said:
Agreed about sample size of this season being too small but if people are saying he made the 'next step' this year it obviously will obscure that by averaging it out with last years stats.
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Except there is no evidence that he's taken a massive sustainable step, from what I can see.

Ziggdiezan said:
Curious where you got these stats as I see some different numbers on NaturalStat for ES production rates?
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Huh, you're right. My numbers are from Corsica. It came back and I've been using it more lately because you can't look at bigger than 3 year samples on NaturalStatTrick. I don't know why they're different. NaturalStatTrick seems to have some extra minutes that aren't being recorded on Corsica for ES. Maybe they're not counting OT? I'll have to look into it more.

If you figure it out, let me know.

EDIT: Apparently Corsica hasn't updated his latest game.

Ziggdiezan said:
Matthews is having the better ES season in general I would say though.
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Yeah, even with the NaturalStatTrick stats, I'd take Matthews' season every time. Much more sustainable, with production that was much more individually affected.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Except there is no evidence that he's taken a massive sustainable step, from what I can see.


Huh, you're right. My numbers are from Corsica. It came back and I've been using it more lately because you can't look at bigger than 3 year samples on NaturalStatTrick. I don't know why they're different. NaturalStatTrick seems to have some extra minutes that aren't being recorded on Corsica for ES. Maybe they're not counting OT? I'll have to look into it more.

If you figure it out, let me know.


Yeah, even with the NaturalStatTrick stats, I'd take Matthews' season every time. Much more sustainable, with production that was much more individually affected.
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Personally I think he made the step last year with a pretty decent increase in first assists/60 and points/60 in general. Definitely scoring a lot more goals this year but that is because his role has changed now that he isnt playing with Skinner. I was just explaining why if you did think he made a big leap this year it wouldn't be wise to use last years stats.

Maybe check out/compare their 5 on 5 stats to see if the difference is what you said (not using the OT even strength minutes) or something else odd that is being omitted. Nice to see Corsica back online though.

Agreed, Matthews isnt really scoring at a much higher rate than his average and doesnt have too much bad indicators though I havent checked out his PDO and stuff. Easily explainable by natural progression and soon to be by playing with the best linemate of his career in Mitch
 
IPS said:
Linemates are great but offensive opportunity trumps all when it comes to finding out who's the better offensive player.

Eichel got far more offensive opportunity than Matthews in his career up until Keefe became Leafs coach.
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Not that I totally disagree with this, but what are your thoughts on McDavid vs. Kucherov last season? Was Kucherov indeed the better offensive player, because he averaged about 3 less minutes per game.
 
Ziggdiezan said:
Personally I think he made the step last year with a pretty decent increase in first assists/60 and points/60 in general.
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Yeah, actually, by a lot of measures, he's playing worse this year than last year. He's just been getting really lucky. He's scoring on way more shots than normal, his linemates are scoring on way more shots than normal, and he's been getting better goaltending behind him.

Ziggdiezan said:
Maybe check out/compare their 5 on 5 stats to see if the difference is what you said (not using the OT even strength minutes) or something else odd that is being omitted.
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I looked into it, and I think there were 2 issues.

First issue was Corsica wasn't updated with their most recent game.
Second issue was I'm pretty sure NaturalStatTrick is counting 6v5 situations for and against as even strength, while Corsica is not.

I guess NaturalStatTrick is better as we don't want to exclude production, but it should be noted that 28% of Eichel's non-PP production comes with the goalie out or against an empty net. That's crazy unsustainable.
 
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I just need to get this off my chest.

The one thing I can not stand on here is non Leafs fans who bash Matthews and say he's not as good as Eichel for example, however those are the same people on here who are always the same ones to say he will leave Toronto and sign in Arizona.
 
Love how this thread has been derailed into a Matthews/Eichel comparison

giphy.gif
 
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The thing I love about Matthews is when he sees a hole in his game he just fixes it. Wants to reinvent his shot to become more lethal? Does it over the Summer. Didn't have much of a one timer or slapper? Now has one of the most lethal in the league. Babcock even said to reporters when asked about anything Matthews needs to work on and he said something to the effect "Yeah but he knows what they are better than me and he will fix it in 2 weeks anyway"
 
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Spargon said:
The thing I love about Matthews is when he sees a hole in his game he just fixes it. Wants to reinvent his shot to become more lethal? Does it over the Summer. Didn't have much of a one timer or slapper? Now has one of the most lethal in the league. Babcock even said to reporters when asked about anything Matthews needs to work on and he said something to the effect "Yeah but he knows what they are better than me and he will fix it in 2 weeks anyway"
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That could be my favourite Babcock quote of all time.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Yeah, actually, by a lot of measures, he's playing worse this year than last year. He's just been getting really lucky. He's scoring on way more shots than normal, his linemates are scoring on way more shots than normal, and he's been getting better goaltending behind him.


I looked into it, and I think there were 2 issues.

First issue was Corsica wasn't updated with their most recent game.
Second issue was I'm pretty sure NaturalStatTrick is counting 6v5 situations for and against as even strength, while Corsica is not.

I guess NaturalStatTrick is better as we don't want to exclude production, but it should be noted that 28% of Eichel's non-PP production comes with the goalie out or against an empty net. That's crazy unsustainable.
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Interesting stat at the end there.

Good to know about NaturalStat, I will probably look at 5 on 5 even more then.
 
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I think Matthews is getting 60 this season the way he's playing. He hasn't even had a hot streak. He's just been consistently scoring 1-2 goals.

I read a few days back that since Matthews has entered the league, he has been the most consistent scorer (scored in more games than any other player) and still only somehow has the one hattrick from his first game. Crazy.

So many 2 goal games. He's got ONE empty net goal in his entire career as well IIRC.
 
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Superstar said:
You mean Matthews is not better? :sarcasm:
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Eichel is a really good player but he's not on the same level as Matthews.

If Matthews doesn't get injured the past two years he has 4 straight 40 goal seasons to start his career. He's just far better.

PPG+ in his career with more goals than Eichel currently has in nearly 70+ more games played.
 
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