Tribute Auston Matthews Discussion "the Beauty" Edition

[TheBeastCoast]

Go ask the main boards....He isn't even a 70 point player!!! Nevermind that he is a point a game over 250 games.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Can we please forget about Babcock.

Matthews loves playing for Keefe as does the rest of the team.
It shows in everyone’s game.

 

[authentic]

Even when Eichel was on his point streak and some people said he was better, I never believed it because Matthews was already the better player in my opinion.

Also here is something interesting when you look at his stats. In his rookie season he didn't score his 20th goal until the Centennial Classic on January 1, 2017 and he ended up with 40 goals in 82 games.

This season as of December 31, 2019 Matthews has 27 goals through 41 games and is on pace for at least 50 goals.

Also I don't want to set the bar too high but is it really that crazy to think he scores another 27 considering these next 41 games will all be with Keefe and playing with Marner now? It's completely realistic to think he scores 54 goals which would be amazing.

 

[authentic]

I honestly still can't believe Babcock never put his best passer with his best shooter for an extended period of time.

It's especially weird considering they are known to be good friends off the ice. Actually it's not weird it's f***ed up.

 

[authentic]

Matthews has been leading that Eichel race since the moment he stepped onto NHL since three and a half years ago.

Eichel deserves credit for taking his game to the next level and earlier on there were certainly things that Matthews needed to iron out in his game, but he basically just took all the criticism that was pointed out in this thread and more than answered. That's a great sign.

Matthews just seems to me like someone who absolutely thrives off of people doubting him lol.

 

[authentic]

I find it amazing how "with the breeze" people can go. If you ever thought Eichel was in the same league as Matthews, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Just like anyone who thought this team "just isn't that good" a month ago, you have no idea what you are looking at.

I don't mean to spoil everyones fun but he is atleast in the same league, it's pretty clear there is no huge difference between the two players for anyone who watches them now.

 

[LeafGrief]

He's playing great hockey right now. 11 goals in his last 11 games, 17 points! It's awesome that he and Marner are clicking. Matthews really seems to have taken his playmaking to another level recently. He's been making some really excellent passes and is using his teammates very well.

This whole Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Nylander situation is a brave new world that we're living in and I'm all for it.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I find it amazing how "with the breeze" people can go. If you ever thought Eichel was in the same league as Matthews, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Just like anyone who thought this team "just isn't that good" a month ago, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Let's real it back a bit man. Eichel still has more points and 1 less game played. They are definitely in the same tier.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't mean to spoil everyones fun but he is atleast in the same league, it's pretty clear there is no huge difference between the two players for anyone who watches them now.

Let's real it back a bit man. Eichel still has more points and 1 less game played. They are definitely in the same tier.

Eichel's ES OISH% is completely unsustainable this year. It's almost 40% higher than his previous career high, and that's after already dropping a bunch from a few weeks ago.

Even despite this, since the beginning of last year:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.84
Eichel: 2.43

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.42
Eichel: 1.81

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.75
Eichel: 5.92

PP P1/60

Matthews: 5.94
Eichel: 3.75

No contest.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Go ask the main boards....He isn't even a 70 point player!!! Nevermind that he is a point a game over 250 games.

You forgot that they also claim he isn't the best point producer because of his lack of assists, compared to other legit #1 centres.

 

[Gabriel426]

That's very true and yet why don't we ever hear about Eichel wanting out of Buffalo the first chance he gets, because the non Leafs fans like to bring up Matthews bolting for Arizona when his contract is finished. I guess it's why the Sabres owner basically caved to Eichel when they originally fired Bylsma and Murray one day after it was reported Eichel wanted that to happen.

I have a feeling Eichel will end up in Boston if Sabres don’t improve their team by the time he is close to UFA. ESP once Bergeron and Marchand decline.

 

[pcruz]

i remember buffalo management apologizing to their fans for not winning the lottery and getting mcdavid. it's not like eichel is a terrible consolation prize lol what a slap in the face to him.

Eichel is not just a good consolation prize though.

If one were offered Crosby or Geno, they would obviously take Sid. The one who got Malkin would think “ oh well, at least we got the next best thing, one who can realistically compete with Sid every year for major hardware”.

Thats Eichel.
Anyone who shits on the kid is an idiot, and the Sabres org should be ashamed they reacted the way they did. They got a sure fire top 5-10 player for as long as they want.

Same thing here.
Would we have wanted McDavid, yes!
Should we be upset that we have Marner and Matthews instead? Hell no.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I find it amazing how "with the breeze" people can go. If you ever thought Eichel was in the same league as Matthews, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Just like anyone who thought this team "just isn't that good" a month ago, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Eichel is on an island all by himself. The fact that he has 53 points in 40 games playing with the likes of Reinhart, Skinner, Olofsson, etc. is absolutely incredible. He has almost a 20 point lead on second place for points among Sabres. Would Matthews thrive like that playing with lesser talent? We'll never know I guess, but Eichel showing that he is absolutely in the same league.

 

[Stephen]

I find it amazing how "with the breeze" people can go. If you ever thought Eichel was in the same league as Matthews, you have no idea what you are looking at.

Just like anyone who thought this team "just isn't that good" a month ago, you have no idea what you are looking at.

It has nothing to do with how "with the breeze" people are so much as the Leafs players playing much better in December as well as a number of roster and coaching tweaks the Leafs have made in the past month, coinciding with the Andreas Johnsson injury in the Colorado game, the subsequent road trip and then the big win vs the Sabres at home.

 

[Legion34]

Eichel is on an island all by himself. The fact that he has 53 points in 40 games playing with the likes of Reinhart, Skinner, Olofsson, etc. is absolutely incredible. He has almost a 20 point lead on second place for points among Sabres. Would Matthews thrive like that playing with lesser talent? We'll never know I guess, but Eichel showing that he is absolutely in the same league.

huh. In his only full season. Matthews was second in the league in goals. As a rookie. With fellow rookies Hyman and brown.

We know exactly what happens

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Eichel's ES OISH% is completely unsustainable this year. It's almost 40% higher than his previous career high, and that's after already dropping a bunch from a few weeks ago.

Even despite this, since the beginning of last year:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.84
Eichel: 2.43

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.42
Eichel: 1.81

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.75
Eichel: 5.92

PP P1/60

Matthews: 5.94
Eichel: 3.75

No contest.

But we can just pick and choose from these stats to fit any agenda.

For example, if we look at just this year, Eichel has 3.6 p/60, and Matthews 3.5 p/60. Seems pretty comparable. Yes yes yes... we all know Matthews was a little better over elc. But we're talking this season right now. Eichel seems to have elevated his game and has been the same tier as Matthews this season. And that's while, this season, Eichel was playing with FAR less talented players than Matthews. Linemates matter whenever we compare leaf players to other teams players. So I demand consistency on that.

 

[DanM]

Go ask the main boards....He isn't even a 70 point player!!! Nevermind that he is a point a game over 250 games.

Yep!

Or that he has peaked and cannot add to his skill, or grow as a player.

 

[DanM]

Eichel is on an island all by himself. The fact that he has 53 points in 40 games playing with the likes of Reinhart, Skinner, Olofsson, etc. is absolutely incredible. He has almost a 20 point lead on second place for points among Sabres. Would Matthews thrive like that playing with lesser talent? We'll never know I guess, but Eichel showing that he is absolutely in the same league.

Sure, as of today he is. Matthews has still been better at every level, and the NHL up to now. Eichel took the next step, Kudos. Now Matthews can take it to his next level, and a year younger.

This has been the biggest obstacle on these boards when discussing Matthews. EVERY poster talks about how Mackinnon, Eichel, and all these players have caught up, but none of them seem to understand or think it's impossible that Matthews have another gear in him, like he has peaked at 22 lol or doesn't have the same talent to improve his overall game. Matty has also been finally put in his best situation when it comes to deployment.

Ask yourself this, is Matthews not capable of hitting another level? Is it only the Mackinnon's and Eichel's of the world who can? And what makes them different?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sure, as of today he is. Matthews has still been better at every level, and the NHL up to now. Eichel took the next step, Kudos. Now Matthews can take it to his next level, and a year younger.

This has been the biggest obstacle on these boards when discussing Matthews. EVERY poster talks about how Mackinnon, Eichel, and all these players have caught up, but none of them seem to understand or think it's impossible that Matthews have another gear in him, like he has peaked at 22 lol or doesn't have the same talent to improve his overall game. Matty has also been finally put in his best situation when it comes to deployment.

Ask yourself this, is Matthews not capable of hitting another level? Is it only the Mackinnon's and Eichel's of the world who can?

It's funny the way non Leafs fans use to talk about Matthews not getting 70 points or 30 assists in his first two seasons, no one ever brought up how Jack Eichel has yet to score 30 goals.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But we can just pick and choose from these stats to fit any agenda.

You do. I don't.

For example, if we look at just this year, Eichel has 3.6 p/60, and Matthews 3.5 p/60.

Shrinking sample sizes this small creates issues, and isn't really as representative of the consistent level of a player.

However, if you must... This year:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.81
Eichel: 2.62

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.54
Eichel: 1.78

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.51
Eichel: 5.63

PP P1/60

Matthews: 5.51
Eichel: 3.62

Matthews is easily better. And once again, this is with Eichel having an incredibly inflated ES OISH%.

And that's while, this season, Eichel was playing with FAR less talented players than Matthews.

Eichel has had worse linemate quality than many of his peers over his career, but not really worse than Matthews. This season specifically, Eichel's production is being helped tremendously by his linemates.

 

[DanM]

It's funny the way non Leafs fans use to talk about Matthews not getting 70 points or 30 assists in his first two seasons, no one ever brought up how Jack Eichel has yet to score 30 goals.

It's all just how it fit's narratives. It is funny reading everyones emotional responses to players or teams they dislike.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You do. I don't.


Shrinking sample sizes this small creates issues, and isn't really as representative of the consistent level of a player.

However, if you must... This year:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.81
Eichel: 2.62

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.54
Eichel: 1.78

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.51
Eichel: 5.63

PP P1/60

Matthews: 5.51
Eichel: 3.62

Matthews is easily better. And once again, this is with Eichel having an incredibly inflated ES OISH%.


Eichel has had worse linemate quality than many of his peers over his career, but not really worse than Matthews. This season specifically, Eichel's production is being helped tremendously by his linemates.

In all situations, Hockey-reference has Matthewss at 3.5 p/60 and Eichel at 3.6 p/60. That's ALL situations. Not picking and choosing just the ones that makes Matthews look better. Are you suggesting that Hockey-reference is lying? And Eichel's linemates aren't as good as Matthews. And Eichel doesn't have line 1 a and line 1 b, with a Tavares type player on the other line often taking the hardest defensive match ups. If this was in reverse, these would be the specific arguments you'd be bringing up to defend Matthews. But, just as I 100% knew, all of these arguments will go RIGHT out the window when they don't apply to leaf players. If Mathews gets 60 goals/120 points this year, nobody will care if some 70 point player has better (lol) 5v5 p/60 numbers.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It's all just how it fit's narratives. It is funny reading everyones emotional responses to players or teams they dislike.

I once said that on the main boards about Eichel not yet scoring 30 goals , although I can't remember what the responses were and I don't feel like searching for an old thread like that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

In all situations, Hockey-reference has Matthewss at 3.5 p/60 and Eichel at 3.6 p/60. That's ALL situations. Not picking and choosing just the ones that makes Matthews look better.

I didn't pick and choose situations. I just separated their ES and PP production, because looking at all situations skews things towards players who have a higher percentage of their TOI as PP time, where it is significantly easier to score.

And Eichel's linemates aren't as good as Matthews.

They are, and even if you don't want to believe they are, they certainly have provided more benefit to Eichel this year. His linemates are on pace for 62 and 68 points, and that line has an incredibly inflated ES OISH%. A significant portion of Eichel's production has been secondary assists.

And Eichel doesn't have line 1 a and line 1 b, with a Tavares type player on the other line often taking the hardest defensive match ups.

They have a negligible difference in QOC, and the impact of QOC on production is greatly exaggerated.
If anything, being on a deeper team without linemates that reflect that takes away prime offensive opportunities.

 

[danron1376]

Eichel is not just a good consolation prize though.

If one were offered Crosby or Geno, they would obviously take Sid. The one who got Malkin would think “ oh well, at least we got the next best thing, one who can realistically compete with Sid every year for major hardware”.

Thats Eichel.
Anyone who ****s on the kid is an idiot, and the Sabres org should be ashamed they reacted the way they did. They got a sure fire top 5-10 player for as long as they want.

Same thing here.
Would we have wanted McDavid, yes!
Should we be upset that we have Marner and Matthews instead? Hell no.

yep, spot on