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Auston Matthews back to back hat tricks

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Rob Brown said:
I mean...the statistics and evidence back up Matthews in this case, so not really sure what your point is.
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Not really, because you ignore the entire context. If McDavid didn't spend so much time creating plays for his teammates and concentrated on scoring more goals, he'd probably go to 80+.

It's one thing to score 60+ goals, but it's another thing entirely to do it while posting higher than one assist per game, which is something Matthews will never accomplish as his main focus is scoring.

Simply comparing their goals is meaningless because of this. Ask McDavid to be a sniper for a whole season and pound for pound, McDavid is the better goalscorer.
 
Jeffrey Steele said:
Not really, because you ignore the entire context. If McDavid didn't spend so much time creating plays for his teammates and concentrated on scoring more goals, he'd probably go to 80+.

It's one thing to score 60+ goals, but it's another thing entirely to do it while posting higher than one assist per game, which is something Matthews will never accomplish as his main focus is scoring.

Simply comparing their goals is meaningless because of this. Ask McDavid to be a sniper for a whole season and pound for pound, McDavid is the better goalscorer.
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That is speculation. Who knows, no one has asked him yet.
 
Leaf Fans said:
That is speculation. Who knows, no one has asked him yet.
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Speculation? Matthews had 46 assists when he scored 60 goals. McDavid had 89 assists when he scored 64 goals.

One is much tougher to accomplish, because playmaking takes up a lot of his time on ice. Reduce his focus on playmaking and he scores even more goals. It's not speculation, but a certainty.

It's still great to have the #2 best scorer.
 
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Jeffrey Steele said:
Speculation? Matthews had 46 assists when he scored 60 goals. McDavid had 89 assists when he scored 64 goals.

One is much tougher to accomplish, because playmaking takes up a lot of his time on ice. Reduce his focus on playmaking and he scores even more goals. It's not speculation, but a certainty.

It's still great to have the #2 best scorer.
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Sure is, but McDavid has not got his speculated 80.
 
Leaf Fans said:
Sure is, but McDavid has not got his speculated 80.
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No shit sherlock. Neither does Auston have his speculated 64 goals.

You just don't want to admit to yourself that Matthews might not be the best goalscorer.

Let's put this another way. How much time per game do both players spend trying to create goals for their teammates? It's highly reasonable to assume Connor does, by a fair margin.

Here's another line of thought: how many of their goals are tributary to their teammates? How many goals do each player score almost by themselves? This is still areas where I'd easily pick McDavid on top without having the actual stats at hand.

That capacity to create plays is the reason I say McDavid is the better goalscorer. Auston has arguably the better shot, but Connor is so highly creative and fast, it boosts up his goalscoring, despite spending most of his time feeding teammates. If he was atill a fraction more selfish, he'd pot close to GPG over an entire season.

You know the story, right? How Drai had to convince Connor to shoot more? Bam, instant results, he beats Matthews best goalscoring season, yet still puts up higher than one assist per game. Imagine if he pushes the envelope a little more?
 
Jeffrey Steele said:
No shit sherlock. Neither does Auston have his speculated 64 goals.

You just don't want to admit to yourself that Matthews might not be the best goalscorer.

Let's put this another way. How much time per game do both players spend trying to create goals for their teammates? It's highly reasonable to assume Connor does, by a fair margin.

Here's another line of thought: how many of their goals are tributary to their teammates? How many goals do each player score almost by themselves? This is still areas where I'd easily pick McDavid on top without having the actual stats at hand.

That capacity to create plays is the reason I say McDavid is the better goalscorer. Auston has arguably the better shot, but Connor is so highly creative and fast, it boosts up his goalscoring, despite spending most of his time feeding teammates. If he was atill a fraction more selfish, he'd pot close to GPG over an entire season.

You know the story, right? How Drai had to convince Connor to shoot more? Bam, instant results, he beats Matthews best goalscoring season, yet still puts up higher than one assist per game. Imagine if he pushes the envelope a little more?
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I have no problem admitting facts to myself or anyone else.
 
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Trying to argue McDavid is a better goal scorer because he is a better playmaker is an interesting bit of logic there. Alternatively, Matthews has objectively been a better goal scorer since entering the league. Marner would be a 50 goal scorer if he wasn't so busy passing the puck all the time. Prove me wrong.
 
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Leaf Fans said:
My expectations weren't met. I expected the team to go farther into the playoffs. Sure, winning a round was good, but not enough.
You were happy with nothing.
Do you understand the term rebuild?
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Ask Dorion.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Trying to argue McDavid is a better goal scorer because he is a better playmaker is an interesting bit of logic there. Alternatively, Matthews has objectively been a better goal scorer since entering the league. Marner would be a 50 goal scorer if he wasn't so busy passing the puck all the time. Prove me wrong.
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Why not quote me directly. I do agree Marner would score more if he had less talented scorers around him.

Now, on to the bit where you spin what I said. What I am saying is that McDavid spends far more of his icetime creating plays for his teammates, which is undoubtable and scored more goals than Matthews ever did in a season. Matthews does pass, but his main focus is scoring. If McDavid's main focus was scoring, he'd certainly would pile goals higher than Matthews.

Being the best goalscorer is not simply about who scores more goals or who has the better shot.
 
Jeffrey Steele said:
Why not quote me directly. I do agree Marner would score more if he had less talented scorers around him.

Now, on to the bit where you spin what I said. What I am saying is that McDavid spends far more of his icetime creating plays for his teammates, which is undoubtable and scored more goals than Matthews ever did in a season. Matthews does pass, but his main focus is scoring. If McDavid's main focus was scoring, he'd certainly would pile goals higher than Matthews.

Being the best goalscorer is not simply about who scores more goals or who has the better shot.
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Matthews is a better goal scorer then McDavid. Take into account the entire package McDavid is obviously a much superior offensive threat. I also disagree with your last line. Being the best goal scorer is about who scores more goals. We aren't talking about who the best player is here. Matthews is/has been a better goal scorer throughout his career then McDavid has been. It's like saying peak Crosby was a better goal scorer then peak Ovechkin because all the other great stuff Crosby did drained from his hypothetical goal totals. Matthews being the best goal scorer in the league doesn't diminish McDavids greatness either.
 
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TheBeastCoast said:
Matthews is a better goal scorer then McDavid. Take into account the entire package McDavid is obviously a much superior offensive threat. I also disagree with your last line. Being the best goal scorer is about who scores more goals. We aren't talking about who the best player is here. Matthews is/has been a better goal scorer throughout his career then McDavid has been. It's like saying peak Crosby was a better goal scorer then peak Ovechkin because all the other great stuff Crosby did drained from his hypothetical goal totals. Matthews being the best goal scorer in the league doesn't diminish McDavids greatness either.
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No it's not alike, because in his best goal scoring season, Crosby didn't come close (51) to Ovy's best total (65), while getting fewer assists (58) than his best seasons (84, 78, 68, 65 ect).

McDavid beat (64) Matthews' best goal scoring season (60) while also getting the most assists in his career (89 vs 79, 75, 72, ect).

Crosby sacrificed some playmaking to get to 51, while McDavid didn't. If he did, he would've gotten more than 64.

Goalscoring is indeed more than goals scored, but I understand why you would want to avoid context and keep it reductive as possible.

Matthews is also far more reliant on his teammates for shot creation than McDavid is.
 
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Jeffrey Steele said:
No it's not alike, because in his best goal scoring season, Crosby didn't come close (51) to Ovy's best total (65), while getting fewer assists (58) than his best seasons (84, 78, 68, 65 ect).

McDavid beat (64) Matthews' best goal scoring season (60) while also getting the most assists in his career (89 vs 79, 75, 72, ect).

Crosby sacrificed some playmaking to get to 51, while McDavid didn't. If he did, he would've gotten more than 64.

Goalscoring is indeed more than goals scored, but I understand why you would want to avoid context and keep it reductive as possible.

Matthews is also far more reliant on his teammates for shot creation than McDavid is.
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You are talking about being reductive while at the same time trying to add hypothetical goals to McDavids already impressive numbers. If McDavid out scores Matthews again this season I would accept the argument but as of right now last season is the outlier. Over the course of their careers....and numbers do not lie, Matthews is the better goal scorer.
 
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Deadly Dogma said:
title will need to be changed to " Auston Matthews opens season with back to back hat tricks"
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It'll be tough with that goalie they've got in Minny.

Who wins, the guy who has scored a hat trick every time he played this year, or the guy who got a shutout every time hes played?

And they gave up nothing for him!
 
Jeffrey Steele said:
No it's not alike, because in his best goal scoring season, Crosby didn't come close (51) to Ovy's best total (65), while getting fewer assists (58) than his best seasons (84, 78, 68, 65 ect).

McDavid beat (64) Matthews' best goal scoring season (60) while also getting the most assists in his career (89 vs 79, 75, 72, ect).

Crosby sacrificed some playmaking to get to 51, while McDavid didn't. If he did, he would've gotten more than 64.

Goalscoring is indeed more than goals scored, but I understand why you would want to avoid context and keep it reductive as possible.

Matthews is also far more reliant on his teammates for shot creation than McDavid is.
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You realize Matthews even played numerous games in his 60 goal season barely being able to shoot with an injured wrist and also plays consistently less powerplay time than McDavid and far more of a two-way game. Matthews is hands down the best goal scorer in the league
 
Namikaze Minato said:
It'll be tough with that goalie they've got in Minny.

Who wins, the guy who has scored a hat trick every time he played this year, or the guy who got a shutout every time hes played?

And they gave up nothing for him!
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in all seriousness, I expect the Leafs to try and play tighter tonight so it may be a 2-1 or 3-2 game
 
Tofveve said:
That was freaking incredible. It's undeniable the legacy that is being cemented and at such a young age still. Undeniable. One of the all-time greats - period. Could end up a top 10-15 (a cup or 2 would help).
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He definitely has a chance to be an all-time great. Needs better playoff numbers to reach that high, though.
 
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