News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[PromisedLand]

The cap didn't stagnate due to a recession, or an economic shock. The cap stagnated because there was a global pandemic and they couldn't have fans for a season in a gate-driven league, which created a billion+ dollar player debt that was paid off by manually lowering the cap below where it should be for multiple years.
Also, for the record, recessions don't just pop up one day and economists are just like oh, look at that *pikachu face*.

you can say that but it doesn't make it true. Entire league had to deal with it. Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl all had signed 8 year deals as an example. Dubas completely screwing it up for the Leas doesn't mean it wasn't a shit job by dubas.

With things being as expensive now are you spending more for the same amount or are you spending less for more? it is common sense. Stupidity should have gone out the door the moment dubas was out of leafs organization. Competent thinking and having a foresight is is a necessary precondition to run any business competently whether it is hockey or anything else. No more stupidity!!!

 

[WTFMAN99]

Or maybe the mandate has also come from Shanahan this whole time.

The pandemic started after everyone of the top four was signed, so no.. these contracts were not signed with eyes wide open.

I appreciate your viewpoint on not pivoting off that plan, but we don't know who is at fault here. It's easy to pin on Dubas, but I think it's safer to say... Leafs org. If Dubas didn't have freedom to make the changes he wanted.. how will we ever know if he wanted to make changes. That isn't a defense of him... maybe he didn't want to make changes like that... I don't know. I believe he would have, if he were still here... but that's pretty irrelevant.

Dubas also couldn't have predicted at the time, that Tavares would get concussed against Montreal, or that Matthews would end up having durability issues. If you have an elite core, you have to give them sufficient chances to succeed... you don't blow it up at the first failure, or even the second. I think they gave the core the right opportunity to succeed, and personally, I think NOW is the time to rethink things... and this management group likely doesn't.... which gives you pause to consider who is responsible for that?

If these guys could stay healthy.. they've got another 5-7 years of good performance, before it drops off... so you have plenty of opportunity there... and I'm not suggesting running it back until then... just that it's not as if opportunity for future success has gone forever.

To me, the number one reason we failed this year, is Matthews is injured. If you think that is Dubas/Mgmt fault for not addressing in advance.. fair enough. Perhaps you are for taking some steps back, to maybe have some success in the future... but trading Matthews, last year, now, next year.... it's steps backwards for sure... hoping to get back to where we are now... with playoff success in the future.

Hard to know who to officially pin it on. I maybe worded it incorrectly but the pandemic salary cap crunch arrived and it just seemed like "Yea, we're gonna keep doing this" (eyes wide open to the issue) and didn't change course. Worse yet, he didn't get maximum term unlike other GMs.

I'd say the biggest issue with the group is Tavares, just not an 11M player and I don't know how things look better if you change from 2 11M centres and an 11M winger to 1 11M centre and 2 11M wingers...

It's June 12th now and I would think over the next 1-1.5 months, we're gonna see some shit.

 

[notbias]

you can say that but it doesn't make it true. Entire league had to deal with it. Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl all had signed 8 year deals as an example. Dubas completely screwing it up for the Leas doesn't mean it wasn't a shit job by dubas.

With things being as expensive now are you spending more for the same amount or are you spending less for more? it is common sense. Stupidity should have gone out the door the moment dubas was out of leafs organization. Competent thinking and having a foresight is is a necessary precondition to run any business competently whether it is hockey or anything else. No more stupidity!!!

Leafs were easily the most affected by the pandemic, I can't think of another team with so many high-profile players being signed at the same time.

 

[PromisedLand]

The Leafs core 4 takes up $40.5 mi & 1/2 their Salary Cap and Vegas top 10 forwards = $41 mil Cap and Vegas has 1/2 their cap balance towards Defense & Goaltending a couple depth forwards.

View attachment 717207

Vegas depth is scoring circles around our Leafs based on 10 forwards against only 4 particularly when Leafs core particular score 3 goals combined in 5 games against Florida.

Leafs really to get out of this Cap Hell situation even it means selling off an $11 mil player and then dividing the cap between 2-3 players.

Exactly!!!!

Team composition given the cap constraint has to be thoughtout. We should not be committing any massive cap towards handful of players especially just forwards and more importantly when they don't bring any other element to the team.

We have 7 years worth of evidence. It is time now that management group engage in evidence based decision making which should have been the priority from the get go anyway

 

[PromisedLand]

Leafs were easily the most affected by the pandemic, I can't think of another team with so many high-profile players being signed at the same time.

The sole reason was the stupidity of dubas and his arrogance of "we can and we will" trash.

competent management group exercise caution in team building, team composition and cap allocation. Leafs were unique in the entire league for all of team building, team composition and cap allocation. 50% of the cap allocated to 4 forwards; which other team in the league invested 50% of the cap to 4 forwards? And then kept it that way even though there were no results.

Furthermore, the Leafs put themselves in that position by signing ridiculous contracts; nobody forced Leafs into making those contract decisions. Entire league and GMs were stunned at the Leafs' stupidity just go read the articles from back then if you don't believe me.

If Matthews/Marner had signed 8 year deals we wouldn't even be having these conversation; and when JT was off the cap we would have had at least 2 to 3 more years of them at their cap to bolster the roster which is not the case anymore.

Dubas completely ruined it for the Leafs. Treliving doesn't have to repeat the same mistakes and Should Not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Mess]

I know the Blackhawks bet on a 100M salary cap when they signed those 10.5M cap hits to Toews / Kane...

The key difference between Hawks (Kanes and Toews) or Kings (Kopitar/Doughty) is they WON multiple Stanley Cups first and then REWARDED those player with their silver spoon deals.,

Matthews and Marner make more money now on current deals based on without even winning a single playoff round at the time.

 

[Fogelhund]

Hard to know who to officially pin it on. I maybe worded it incorrectly but the pandemic salary cap crunch arrived and it just seemed like "Yea, we're gonna keep doing this" (eyes wide open to the issue) and didn't change course. Worse yet, he didn't get maximum term unlike other GMs.

I'd say the biggest issue with the group is Tavares, just not an 11M player and I don't know how things look better if you change from 2 11M centres and an 11M winger to 1 11M centre and 2 11M wingers...

It's June 12th now and I would think over the next 1-1.5 months, we're gonna see some shit.

I don't think we see any big changes over the next 1-1.5 months... just shuffling some chairs on the deck.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think we see any big changes over the next 1-1.5 months... just shuffling some chairs on the deck.

The one thing that came out of the Athletic recently that I happen to agree with is the Nylander situation.

Same agent for Gaudreau and Nylander, he just got kicked in the nuts and strung along to see him walk. I feel like as soon as Matthews puts pen to paper, the focus is gonna go to Nylander and try to get that done and if it isn't happening or the numbers are stupid, it's not gonna go on all season.

 

[DarkKnight]

If these rumours are true he wants to be highest paid in the league, it’s a red flag about his priorities and actually confirms we won’t win with this guy. He isn’t the best player in the league, ainec atm. If he really really thinks TO is special and winning a cup is his focus he wont extract every penny he can from the team. He earns millions here from endorsements, he gets perks here that supplement his salary, either accommodate the team or get lost.

 

[PromisedLand]

If these rumours are true he wants to be highest paid in the league, it’s a red flag about his priorities and actually confirms we won’t win with this guy. He isn’t the best player in the league, ainec atm. If he really really thinks TO is special and winning a cup is his focus he wont extract every penny he can from the team. He earns millions here from endorsements, he gets perks here that supplement his salary, either accommodate the team or get lost.

Hell Yeah!!!

 

[notbias]

If these rumours are true he wants to be highest paid in the league, it’s a red flag about his priorities and actually confirms we won’t win with this guy. He isn’t the best player in the league, ainec atm. If he really really thinks TO is special and winning a cup is his focus he wont extract every penny he can from the team. He earns millions here from endorsements, he gets perks here that supplement his salary, either accommodate the team or get lost.

Feel the same about MacKinnon?

The sole reason was the stupidity of dubas and his arrogance of "we can and we will" trash.

competent management group exercise caution in team building, team composition and cap allocation. Leafs were unique in the entire league for all of team building, team composition and cap allocation. 50% of the cap allocated to 4 forwards; which other team in the league invested 50% of the cap to 4 forwards? And then kept it that way even though there were no results.

Furthermore, the Leafs put themselves in that position by signing ridiculous contracts; nobody forced Leafs into making those contract decisions. Entire league and GMs were stunned at the Leafs' stupidity just go read the articles from back then if you don't believe me.

If Matthews/Marner had signed 8 year deals we wouldn't even be having these conversation; and when JT was off the cap we would have had at least 2 to 3 more years of them at their cap to bolster the roster which is not the case anymore.

Dubas completely ruined it for the Leafs. Treliving doesn't have to repeat the same mistakes and Should Not repeat the same mistakes.

A lot of hot air here... no one banked on a pandemic, this is what Dubas' biggest mistake was, everyone knows it, it is unfortunate.

 

[Dekes For Days]

you can say that but it doesn't make it true.

I mean, it's very literally true. How and why the league arrived at this cap situation is very public and well documented.
It had nothing to do with a bad business decision or bad foresight. It had to do with a once-in-a-century pandemic hitting, and the league taking drastic, unheard of actions to change how the cap actually works for multiple years in order to pay off a billion dollar imbalance in the 50-50 split.

 

[PromisedLand]

A lot of hot air here... no one banked on a pandemic, this is what Dubas' biggest mistake was, everyone knows it, it is unfortunate.

Everybody called out Dubas even before the pandemic the moment the contracts were signed. The GMs across the league were stunned, media personalities (excluding dubas shills) were all questioning the reason and logic behind those contracts. Heck even Leafs fans such as my self were questioinning what the hell is up with these contracts

Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl as examples all signed 8 year deals. there was no reason to not sign them for 8 year deals at a reasonalble cap hit. Hell even Aho when he signed his deal with the canes for 5 years there was no NMC/NTC in his contract.

Rantanen also just got modified NTC.

The contracts that Dubas signed were ridiculous and at the detriment of the franchise. Any other spin on it is just defending dubas at the expense of the franchise.

I mean, it's very literally true. How and why the league arrived at this cap situation is very public and well documented.
It had nothing to do with a bad business decision or bad foresight. It had to do with a once-in-a-century pandemic hitting, and the league taking drastic, unheard of actions to change how the cap actually works for multiple years in order to pay off a billion dollar imbalance in the 50-50 split.

Dude I am done talking to you. You take part of my post and spin it and mvoe goal posts and do not address the rest of the post.

Cheers!

 

[Trapper]

Basically I am saying lets make some evidence based decisions, exercise caution, have a foresight and then execute plans effectively as much as we can. I don't mind if its called 4D chess if we can get it done though

Evidence based decisions?

People are still convinced 5 in a row is an anomaly.
They present a lot of facts but ignore the giant one staring them in the face.

 

[Fogelhund]

Everybody called out Dubas even before the pandemic the moment the contracts were signed. The GMs across the league were stunned, media personalities (excluding dubas shills) were all questioning the reason and logic behind those contracts. Heck even Leafs fans such as my self were questioinning what the hell is up with these contracts

Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl as examples all signed 8 year deals. there was no reason to not sign them for 8 year deals at a reasonalble cap hit. Hell even Aho when he signed his deal with the canes for 5 years there was no NMC/NTC in his contract.

Rantanen also just got modified NTC.

The contracts that Dubas signed were ridiculous and at the detriment of the franchise. Any other spin on it is just defending dubas at the expense of the franchise.



Dude I am done talking to you. You take part of my post and spin it and mvoe goal posts and do not address the rest of the post.

Cheers!

Not being eight year deals was an issue, I completely agree with that.

Matthews, Nylander and Tavares dollars were in line with the market. Tavares hasn't aged well as a player unfortunately.

Marner was about $1.5-2 million too high.

If we are upset about term.. sure, there is absolutely an argument there. If we are upset with overspending by $1.5 mil... most teams have such contracts.

But, continuously circling back about the past... forget about it.. mover forward, that's all that matters.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

The key difference between Hawks (Kanes and Toews) or Kings (Kopitar/Doughty) is they WON multiple Stanley Cups first and then REWARDED those player with their silver spoon deals.,

View attachment 717212

View attachment 717219

Matthews and Marner make more money now on current deals based on without even winning a single playoff round at the time.

So what about Price/Bobrovsky on the goalie front - they haven't won.

Panarin, Karlsson, Pastrnak's new deal?

McDavid hasn't won either.

Its nice to be able to win, and then pay your guys, but the reality is the market bears what the market bears, and the players are going to get paid, here, or somewhere else.

 

[Racer88]

the Leafs played Florida 9 times this season, won 4 and lost 5, scored 25 goals and allowed 24, 5 of the games went to OT. even if you want to say regular season doesn't matter 3 of the regular season games were in the last month of the season when Florida was chasing the last playoff spot.

"not even close" what are we even talking about here

Watch the finals and you will see the difference

 

[Dekes For Days]

You take part of my post and spin it and mvoe goal posts and do not address the rest of the post.

Nothing in your post was spun or taken out of context, and no goal posts were moved. You made incorrect comments about the cap stagnation, and when it was explained to you what actually happened and why the cap actually stagnated (something that is well-documented), you claimed it wasn't true and started calling everybody stupid.

As for the second part of your post that you tacked on to our existing discussion, I'd be happy to answer it if you'd explain what you're actually asking. I'm unsure what your question means, what you're referring to, or the relevance, as it kind of came out of nowhere and didn't seem connected to anything.

 

[Racer88]

And not for any of the reasons you named.

We have not had our core 4 forwards for 7 years. We signed Tavares in 2018, and he also was not a part of the 2021 playoffs. We have had 4 playoffs with the core 4 forwards.
And for one of those years, we didn't have this core 4 cap structure you keep talking about. Which makes the whole conclusion that we can't win with this cap structure quite amusing, because we actually have a better playoff record with it than when our superstars were on ELCs.

And if we were to go by your logic that playoff outcomes are the only determination for team quality, you'd have to agree that we've lost to the 2nd best team in the league for 3 years straight, and in 4 of the past 5 years.

More excuses. Facts say we cant win with this cap and core 4 Because we have not won with them. Tavares is falling off a cliff right now and it will only get worse in the last 2 years of his nightmare contract.
you have zero evidence that this core as constructed and paid can ever win

 

[ToneDog]

Not being eight year deals was an issue, I completely agree with that.

Matthews, Nylander and Tavares dollars were in line with the market. Tavares hasn't aged well as a player unfortunately.

Marner was about $1.5-2 million too high.

If we are upset about term.. sure, there is absolutely an argument there. If we are upset with overspending by $1.5 mil... most teams have such contracts.

But, continuously circling back about the past... forget about it.. mover forward, that's all that matters.

Exactly, but let's not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Facts say we cant win with this cap and core 4

The facts don't say that at all. You mistake something not yet happening for it being impossible.

Because we have not won with them.

Then by that logic, you can't win with superstars on ELCs, since we have an even worse playoff record with that. Kind breaks down how silly this method of "proving" things is, eh?

Tavares is falling off a cliff right now and it will only get worse in the last 2 years

Tavares has not "fallen off a cliff", and there's really nothing to suggest he's about to start.

 

[ToneDog]

The facts don't say that at all. You mistake something not yet happening for it being impossible.

Then by that logic, you can't win with superstars on ELCs, since we have an even worse playoff record with that. Kind breaks down how silly this method of "proving" things is, eh?

Tavares has not "fallen off a cliff", and there's really nothing to suggest he's about to start.

I was all for bringing in JT but his skating is so painful to watch now. Still great on the PP but 5v5, not so good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I was all for bringing in JT but his skating is so painful to watch now. Still great on the PP but 5v5, not so good.

He's slowed down a bit, as one would expect, but people wildly exaggerate how much and what that means in regards to his impact. He was never great because he was fast.

 

[Gabriel426]

7 years and 1 single round win with this 4 core forwards at some point we have to run out of excuses.
I don’t know if you have been watching the finals but we are not even close the either of those teams in balance and certainly not intensity or simple will to win

Apparently, some still like to believe they were a few bounces away and just got out goalied while also believe if only the Leafs beat certain teams they will be in the Finals since TB, Bruins, Panthers and Habs all made it to the Finals after beating the Leafs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

7 years and 1 single round win with this 4 core forwards at some point we have to run out of excuses.

With some that will never happen