News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[IPS]

One thing you have to take into consideration is the disparity in power plays
I think it was the second or third game against florida we didnt have one power play. Think about that for a second. Florida one of the dirtiest teams in the playoffs didnt commit one infraction. In that game they had 2 power plays against us.

If you look at mcdavid sideways you get a penalty.

I look at the other teams game summary and both teams finish with 5 powerplays in one game. We dont get 5 power plays in a series.

Different game when playing against us

Go and actually do the math.

PP time is literally the go-to argument for every time a Rantanen-Marner comparison or a Matthews-McDavid comparison get brought up.

Seriously, do the math. If you equate Marner with Rantanen's PP time from this year, it equals out to like ~5-6 more points. Really not much at all.

 

[pcruz]

I

I think most people on this board didn't watch Clark play in his prime, during those brief periods where he wasn't beset by some pretty debilitating injuries. In his first two seasons in the league, he was Eric Lindros before Eric Lindros existed.

88 was a 45 goal, 140 point superstar Hart finalist who routinely crushed players.

Wendel was never quite at that level offensively.


Come on now.

 

[IPS]

You'll excuse me if I have little to no patience with this fanbase in their yo-yo evaluation of players, or of their love for the same.

And you're completely erroneous painting the opposing party as a whole with this paintbrush.

Very real and objective criticism gets lost in this battle of extremes.

 

[Boxscore]

I think most people on this board didn't watch Clark play in his prime, during those brief periods where he wasn't beset by some pretty debilitating injuries. In his first two seasons in the league, he was Eric Lindros before Eric Lindros existed.

Wendel was a rare player. Lost in his goals, hits, and emotional leadership, is that he was a middle weight who would go to war with some of the best heavyweights of his era. Clark was everything you loved and respected in a player. He was such a multi-faceted force that the Nordiques were willing to give up a young superstar in Mats Sundin for Wendel and SL. The second Clark stepped on Le Colisee ice he was rocking a letter even though the Nords had great leaders like Sakic, Foote, Ricci, and others.

 

[Dekes For Days]

League-wide comparables eh? So with what Aho just signed for, what should Nylander get?

Comparables aren't just based on one person, but as a very comparable player to Aho, he'll probably get something similar to Aho.

 

[Hellcat]

I'm not sure what Matthews has done to impress Tre in the month he's been GM but ok

1) They got this thing call video tape
2) Tre has eyes that work
3) Tre has not been living under a rock or on a deserted island for the last 10 years.
4) With your logic not sure what McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Eichel have done in the last month, their GM's must not be impressed with them?
5) Stop, just stop. This debate has got utterly absurd.

 

[Hellcat]

Wendel is the best Leaf in my lifetime. I showed my sons clips of him to help develop them as to what it takes to be a man.

On a side note, we were so lucky to have Bob Cole and Harry Neal.

For me Wendel is my favorite Leaf of my lifetime, brought the most happy emotions but Sundin, Gilmour, Matthews, Marner are all IMO easily better players.

League-wide comparables eh? So with what Aho just signed for, what should Nylander get?

I think the fan base has decided on somewhere between minimum wage and eleventy billion dollars a year?

 

[geo25]

Lol. Not likely

I wish he was as tough on the ice as he is on the negotiating table. Am sick of this....I would attempt to trade him.
..all of them and get rid of the stench.

 

[Dekes For Days]

PP time is literally the go-to argument for every time a Rantanen-Marner comparison or a Matthews-McDavid comparison get brought up.

I haven't seen anybody say that Matthews is as good of a PP player as current McDavid. Matthews is elite on the PP. McDavid is arguably the best PP player ever.
Whereas Rantanen isn't actually better than Marner on the PP at all.

 

[Hellcat]

I was told yesterday on this forum that Auston is not serious about winning...

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Matthews is the best Leaf ever and I don't mind paying him as such (IF last year was an outlier and not a sign of a chronic injury).

But I still maintain that because of that, one or both of Marner/Nylander needs to go.

Not because they're bad players. But because they do something I literally NEVER see on any other team. They determine their value NOT on league-wide comparables.... but on their perceived cost/ratio in comparison to Matthews.

That's why we have the entire Nylander thread agreeing thatu Nylander deserves in the high 8's based on league-wide comparables, but 10+ on the leafs if Matthews really signs for around 14.

Notice how none of us say this about players on other teams? "Gee... that's a huge overpayment. But players on that team ignore all league wide comparables, so it makes sense I guess." See how crazy it looks in reverse? To pay Matthews what he wants means that both Marner and Nylander will have to be paid significantly more than their league-wide comparables. And the team just won't be able to win that way.

If Matthews won't sign a team friendly deal, I say give him what he wants and move on from Marner and Nylander. And with that precedent set, sign new players based on league-wide comparables, not their perceived value in relation to Matthews.

As I said before...when the players are more worried about competing amongst themselves for contract money than competing against the other team on the ice...you get 1 series win in 7 tries.

 

[JKG33]

1) They got this thing call video tape
2) Tre has eyes that work
3) Tre has not been living under a rock or on a deserted island for the last 10 years.
4) With your logic not sure what McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Eichel have done in the last month, their GM's must not be impressed with them?
5) Stop, just stop. This debate has got utterly absurd.

All he's done is be a pain in the ass to negotiate with and demanding the most money. I'm sure Tre is just thrilled

 

[JKG33]

One could digest that as a reasonable explanation.

One could, but then he or she would have to have forgotten how this same fanbase turned on other players in the past:

Phil went from carrying a pathetic team to an unexpected playoff series against Boston, to being the "culprit" behind one of the stupidest and most self-righteous, self-absorbed crises in hockey - salutegate. He was summarily walked out of town and we paid Pitt to have him win 2 Cups for them.

Before Phil, it was Joffrey (captain Loop) Lupul. The fans went from "he's a decent player" to "he should be captain" to "he's a complete never-was".

Anyone remember the Reim-minister of Defense? Or Optimus Reim!

Kaberle went from an all time great to getting booed.

Mats went through the most pathetic and embarrassing ordeal I've ever seen in sports. The man literally wanted to fulfill his contract with the team he loved, and the fans wanted him gone for a futures package (likely a late 1st round pick) that had little chance of being anything good.

The Muskoka 5.... players who were offered contracts by the team with certain conditions to them, only to be reviled by the fanbase who still know them by that moniker.


You'll excuse me if I have little to no patience with this fanbase in their yo-yo evaluation of players, or of their love for the same.

It's a franchise with a huge number of fans, and a very diverse spectrum of people - in terms of race, ethnicity, gender, age, etc.
It's also a franchise with a huge number of loud, moronic fans who have been utterly spoiled with great talents they have grown too accustomed to and have forgotten how to appreciate.

The last time this team had a player in the same league as Matthews, was Mats of the 2003 season. That's 20 f***ing years ago!
And Mats never had a down season of 40 goals, 85 points in 70 + games where he was lambasted for his lack of performance. That was an average season for him.....


I can make the same argument for Mitch, but Mogilny was just as good as Marner was, despite being old and washed up. Even Phil never was the complete player Marner is, despite playing as well offensively on a much worse team, and being way more electric.

You'd think, with all this alleged talent this franchise has, they would've actually won something by now then

 

[ACC1224]

All he's done is be a pain in the ass to negotiate with and demanding the most money. I'm sure Tre is just thrilled

I thought his last negotiation was rather easy?

 

[Stephen]

You'll excuse me if I have little to no patience with this fanbase in their yo-yo evaluation of players, or of their love for the same.

It's a franchise with a huge number of fans, and a very diverse spectrum of people - in terms of race, ethnicity, gender, age, etc.
It's also a franchise with a huge number of loud, moronic fans who have been utterly spoiled with great talents they have grown too accustomed to and have forgotten how to appreciate.

Hmm, you've just described a big group of people with a wide range of differing opinions... about a team that hasn't won in nearly 6 decades. I honestly think it's a miracle we have such a big fanbase and community despite all that. The Leafs and its players should feel lucky to have us all.

 

[Stephen]

I think most people on this board didn't watch Clark play in his prime, during those brief periods where he wasn't beset by some pretty debilitating injuries. In his first two seasons in the league, he was Eric Lindros before Eric Lindros existed.

I saw Wendel '93 and '94 onwards at his career peak and team peak, and on his return tours where he was a more diminished player... as a youngster I was definitely more captivated by the other stuff that Wendelmania but looking back through the years in different competitive situations, you get an appreciation for how much you'd want a Wendel Clark in an emotional situation.

Bennett putting Knies on the IR with that behind the net mugging? Bennett would be joining Knies shortly.

Carey Price shutting down Toronto in Game 6 in 2021? I could see a Wendel bullet wrister from the high slot, top corner ending that nonsense.

 

[Hellcat]

All he's done is be a pain in the ass to negotiate with and demanding the most money. I'm sure Tre is just thrilled

Imagine being the best player on the team, one of the best players on this planet asking to get paid like an elite super star, HOW DARE HE!!!! I'm sure you would be 100% OK not getting paid on par with your peers and would gladly subsidize the company you work for so, they can pay other employees more money.

Good on you!

I saw Wendel '93 and '94 onwards at his career peak and team peak, and on his return tours where he was a more diminished player... as a youngster I was definitely more captivated by the other stuff that Wendelmania but looking back through the years in different competitive situations, you get an appreciation for how much you'd want a Wendel Clark in an emotional situation.

Bennett putting Knies on the IR with that behind the net mugging? Bennett would be joining Knies shortly.

Carey Price shutting down Toronto in Game 6 in 2021? I could see a Wendel bullet wrister from the high slot, top corner ending that nonsense.

First he woudl have tried to take Prices head off with a slapper, laid out a d-man behind the net, then he would go to the wrister.

 

[Hellcat]

You'd think, with all this alleged talent this franchise has, they would've actually won something by now then

"Alleged" .. Donald? Alleged? Plenty of very skilled, talented players never wont the cup. The absence of a cup is not confirmation of lack of talent.

 

[Canadian Finn]

neither is the absence of a "give a shit" attitude....

been lots of players full of talent who didn't win shit in their careers.

unfortunately (for us) talent doesn't equal success.

 

[29Potvin]

I get it that Matthews is our guy but dude, be realistic.

How much are we going to keep blaming the lack of PP time for the reason Matthews can't come close to McDavid in production? When the Leafs do actually get PP time, they really don't do much with it. Matthews is not that elite on the PP, it's actually something he could stand to improve. Time and time again our PP completely shits the bed in the playoffs.

Matthews is not the issue on the PP.
Look at the best PP guys in the league and they al have something in common that the Leafs have not in the time Matthews has been a Leaf and that is a legit point shot.
Of the top 10 PP teams last season the Leafs are the only team without a true pointshot on the PP

 

[JKG33]

Imagine being the best player on the team, one of the best players on this planet asking to get paid like an elite super star, HOW DARE HE!!!! I'm sure you would be 100% OK not getting paid on par with your peers and would gladly subsidize the company you work for so, they can pay other employees more money.

Good on you!

If he were asking to get paid on par with his peers we wouldn't be having this conversation

 

[JKG33]

I thought his last negotiation was rather easy?

Yea, it's easy when you're negotiating with Dubas and he caves on term and AAV. No wonder it went so smoothly

 

[ACC1224]

Yea, it's easy when you're negotiating with Dubas and he caves on term and AAV. No wonder it went so smoothly

Sure he was a push over but why did that make Matthews ‘a pain in the ass’?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Comparables aren't just based on one person, but as a very comparable player to Aho, he'll probably get something similar to Aho.

Aho had higher gpg EVERY season but last year. Aho had better ppg EVERY SEASON but last year and rookie year.

And remember just a few days ago in the Marner vs Rantanen arguments where you kept talking about the value of Marner on the pk and getting selke votes?

All out the window with Nylander vs Aho, eh?

There is NO consistency. NONE. It’s all just spun around to rationalize leaf player contracts.

 

[IPS]

Aho had higher gpg EVERY season but last year. Aho had better ppg EVERY SEASON but last year and rookie year.

And remember just a few days ago in the Marner vs Rantanen arguments where you kept talking about the value of Marner on the pk and getting selke votes?

All out the window with Nylander vs Aho, eh?

There is NO consistency. NONE. It’s all just spun around to rationalize leaf player contracts.

Gotta love that one eh? Hypocrisy is truly off the charts on this one