News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Stephen]

Can you imagine this in reverse. Can you IMAGINE this in reverse?

Over the past two seasons Matthews has a 1.2 ppg (102 points/82). McDavid has 1.7 ppg (139 points /82). Goals/82 are pretty much damn well even.

Can you IMAGINE this in reverse? Imagine saying that players with so many less points on other teams were Matthews equal.

Let's look at some of those players.

Matthews point total is 73% of McDavids over the past 2 years.

Ok. Let's look at some players 73% LOWER in points than Matthews.

Roop Hintz. Lol. Does he deserve the same aav as Matthews? Because that argument is just as logical as saying Matthews is McDavid tier. Or how about Brock Nelson? Is he worthy of Matthews upcoming cap hit? "But but but... PP time and other such bullshit." Lol, DON'T YOU SEE, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN REVERSE!!!!!

Do you see how crazy this sounds in reverse? Why is that never part of the discussion? Doing the propagandist's arguments in reverse?

DO YOU SEE HOW CRAZY THIS SOUNDS IN REVERSE?

Well, just a little thought experiment, but if I were to look at this stats line comparison between:

Player A has 209 GP 121 G 142 A 263 PTS
Player B has 199 GP 141 G 116 A 257 PTS

I'd say these two would be in the same league with one another. Player B is Auston Matthews. I'll leave Player A to everyone's imagination, but he doesn't play in Edmonton and I won't go into his salary.

 

[Gabriel426]

Can you imagine this in reverse. Can you IMAGINE this in reverse?

Over the past two seasons Matthews has a 1.2 ppg (102 points/82). McDavid has 1.7 ppg (139 points /82). Goals/82 are pretty much damn well even.

Can you IMAGINE this in reverse? Imagine saying that players with so many less points on other teams were Matthews equal.

Let's look at some of those players.

Matthews point total is 73% of McDavids over the past 2 years.

Ok. Let's look at some players 73% LOWER in points than Matthews.

Roop Hintz. Lol. Does he deserve the same aav as Matthews? Because that argument is just as logical as saying Matthews is McDavid tier. Or how about Brock Nelson? Is he worthy of Matthews upcoming cap hit? "But but but... PP time and other such bullshit." Lol, DON'T YOU SEE, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN REVERSE!!!!!

Do you see how crazy this sounds in reverse? Why is that never part of the discussion? Doing the propagandist's arguments in reverse?

DO YOU SEE HOW CRAZY THIS SOUNDS IN REVERSE?

Been saying the same thing like imagine Tkachuk and Pastra signed for 5 yrs, it won’t be a win for the team but when it comes to the Leafs, it is an amazing thing

 

[Arzak]

Can you imagine this in reverse. Can you IMAGINE this in reverse?

Over the past two seasons Matthews has a 1.2 ppg (102 points/82). McDavid has 1.7 ppg (139 points /82). Goals/82 are pretty much damn well even.

Can you IMAGINE this in reverse? Imagine saying that players with so many less points on other teams were Matthews equal.

Let's look at some of those players.

Matthews point total is 73% of McDavids over the past 2 years.

Ok. Let's look at some players 73% LOWER in points than Matthews.

Roop Hintz. Lol. Does he deserve the same aav as Matthews? Because that argument is just as logical as saying Matthews is McDavid tier. Or how about Brock Nelson? Is he worthy of Matthews upcoming cap hit? "But but but... PP time and other such bullshit." Lol, DON'T YOU SEE, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN REVERSE!!!!!

Do you see how crazy this sounds in reverse? Why is that never part of the discussion? Doing the propagandist's arguments in reverse?

DO YOU SEE HOW CRAZY THIS SOUNDS IN REVERSE?

Nice try, disputing a lot of bull. But you forgot the crazy man argument we hear all the time.
McDavid is actually worth $50M but left money on the table. So 73% of McDavid and Matthews gets $16M, Leafs will thank him for the discount.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nice try, disputing a lot of bull. But you forgot the crazy man argument we hear all the time.
McDavid is actually worth $50M but left money on the table. So 73% of McDavid and Matthews gets $16M, Leafs will thank him for the discount.

"The problem isn't stats or facts. It's that our players are way more selfish and evil than all their comparables."

Yeah, that SURE makes me feel f***ing better.. Great. Thanks a lot of that.

Jesus f***ING christ.

I'm sick of all of it. I'm SICK of it.

 

[andora]

Well, just a little thought experiment, but if I were to look at this stats line comparison between:

Player A has 209 GP 121 G 142 A 263 PTS
Player B has 199 GP 141 G 116 A 257 PTS

I'd say these two would be in the same league with one another. Player B is Auston Matthews. I'll leave Player A to everyone's imagination, but he doesn't play in Edmonton and I won't go into his salary.

oooh... FIRST reaction is either jason robertson (can't recall his rookie year stats that well), brayden point, or mikko rantanen

 

[WTFMAN99]

Can you imagine this in reverse. Can you IMAGINE this in reverse?

Over the past two seasons Matthews has a 1.2 ppg (102 points/82). McDavid has 1.7 ppg (139 points /82). Goals/82 are pretty much damn well even.

Can you IMAGINE this in reverse? Imagine saying that players with so many less points on other teams were Matthews equal.

Let's look at some of those players.

Matthews point total is 73% of McDavids over the past 2 years.

Ok. Let's look at some players 73% LOWER in points than Matthews.

Roop Hintz. Lol. Does he deserve the same aav as Matthews? Because that argument is just as logical as saying Matthews is McDavid tier. Or how about Brock Nelson? Is he worthy of Matthews upcoming cap hit? "But but but... PP time and other such bullshit." Lol, DON'T YOU SEE, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN REVERSE!!!!!

Do you see how crazy this sounds in reverse? Why is that never part of the discussion? Doing the propagandist's arguments in reverse?

DO YOU SEE HOW CRAZY THIS SOUNDS IN REVERSE?

 

[Kiwi]

"The problem isn't stats or facts. It's that our players are way more selfish and evil than all their comparables."

Yeah, that SURE makes me feel f***ing better.. Great. Thanks a lot of that.

Jesus f***ING christ.

I'm sick of all of it. I'm SICK of it.

The organization and fan base have played there part

We treated these entitled brats like they were something special before they achieved anything and it's hardly surprising when they turn into greedy losers who have an overinflated sense of self down the line

I'd say they need to be humbled but they get that every playoffs and it still hasn't got through so we're pretty much ******

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

Look. Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews are not comparable players. That's the beginning and end of the conversation. You can appreciate McDavid. Admire Matthews, and keep those two things separate. But where Leafs fans get onto uneven ground is when they try to bring the two together on an even plane, and that spills over into the contract talk.

The origins of a 5 on 5 debate, devaluing of PP points and elevating goal scoring originated during the 2016-17 season when Matthews scored 40 goals as a rookie and only 69 points whereas McDavid scored 100 points as a sophomore, but only 30 goals. You could plausibly skew the numbers so that if Babcock had utilized Matthews more on special teams, didn't play about 4 minutes less than McDavid, you might actually have 2 very similar players...

And so the theory went. And the years went by and Matthews has been a great player for the Maple Leafs. But he's not close to McDavid. He's had one season that comes close to being a routine McDavid season. And there's no amount of 5 on 5 doctoring, PP debates, defensive hype game, shot block statistics that bridges that gap. McDavid has 850 points. Matthews has 542. To enjoy Matthews, don't compare him to McDavid. For me personally, there is no satisfaction in rummaging through numbers just to find a shred of evidence that may suggest the two are similar.

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

CAN YOU IMAGINE THIS IN REVERSE? Oh, fantastic. The fact that Matthews is injured all the f***ing time means that's he's worth MucDavid money. That's great. Let's REWARD being injury prone.

CAN YOU IMAGINE THIS IN REVERSE!!!!

Imagine another player on another team with WAY less points than Matthews. LAUGHABLY less points than Matthews, and then rationalizing Matthews money for that player based on the fact that being injury prone (lol) DEMANDS more money.

I can't take it. I honestly can't freaking take it anymore.

This has gone too far. I do NOT accept these posts that I''m responding to. Somebody needs to f***ing do something about it. Because, if not, I'm going to have an aneurism or something.

 

[Menzinger]

The McDavid comparison is a bit pointless.

Regardless of where one falls on that, the majority of teams in the league would be falling over themselves to sign Matthews to s contract if he were to actually hit free agency. - core players would be moved if need be to make room, ect.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

1st bolded - your opinions are pretty far out there on the homer cloud, I suppose anything may change

2nd bolded - cool beans, maybe you'll get something right on this topic at some point

 

[Nineteen67]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

I don’t mind Matthews winning the Cup but I hope the Leafs get a great return for him in the trade.

 

[andora]

Obviously a parody account

Ip address comes up as Pennsylvania

 

[andora]

I mean.. come on

Kyle Dubas discussion II

you sure Dubie didn't run the Leafs as agm ? he sure got most if not all the credit for any good move on this board at that time even though he said Lou kicked kicked him to the Marlies the second he got here what does it mean then ? I am sure. He gets credit for what he has done and accepts...

forums.hfboards.com

How many 60 goal seasons will Auston Matthews put up in his career?

60 goals while playing for the Leafs has never been done in the 100+ year history of the NHL. I think it's safe to say that this is the moment Matthews made the Hall of fame! :nod:

forums.hfboards.com

How many 60 goal seasons will Auston Matthews put up in his career?

He's not a 70 goal scorer until he scores 70 goals. And no it isn't wrong to say that. Hypotheticals are stupid and pointless. Tangible, on ice results are all that matters. Also, please explain how McDavid has "lost a step" in a season where he just got a career high in points. Also...

forums.hfboards.com

Is Nylander Better Than Tavares At This Point?

Not trying to bash either player or anything... just genuinely curious what the responses will be. He outscored him in points and goals and seems to be better at creating offense on his own and less reliant on teammates. He's obviously a much better skater and faster. I'm sure the veteran...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Gabriel426]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

Maybe you watch Hockey more than me or most here but if you switch AM and McD teams. I doubt AM will lead the Oilers to ECF or multiple 1st round series win as McD with Oilers. Where as if McD is on the Leafs, they would 100% made it past the 1st round more than ONCE in the past 7 yrs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well, just a little thought experiment, but if I were to look at this stats line comparison between:

Player A has 209 GP 121 G 142 A 263 PTS
Player B has 199 GP 141 G 116 A 257 PTS

I'd say these two would be in the same league with one another.

Yeah, it's actually a good example of how raw points can be misleading when evaluating offensive quality and impact.
It looks all well and good with player A only being behind player B by 0.03 P/GP.
But then you realize that there's a 13 point gap in empty net points.
And then you realize that that difference in PP time that the respective teams get is responsible for about 17 points.
Suddenly you're at a pretty significant 0.18 P/GP gap, before even getting into the additional context about the players, like the fact that player A's production is being pulled along by a superior player to him, or the gap in their defensive impacts.

 

[andora]

Yeah, it's actually a good example of how raw points can be misleading when evaluating offensive quality and impact.
It looks all well and good with player A only being behind player B by 0.03 P/GP.
But then you realize that there's a 13 point gap in empty net points.
And then you realize that that difference in PP time that the respective teams get is responsible for about 17 points.
Suddenly you're at a pretty significant 0.18 P/GP gap, before even getting into the additional context about the players, like the fact that player A's production is being pulled along by a superior player to him, or the gap in their defensive impacts.

Must be rantanen

 

[WillyC]

I would seriously offer Auston a very short contract just so he and McDavid become UFA in the same year.

Then we’ll see who wants to be a Maple Leaf more.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, it's actually a good example of how raw points can be misleading when evaluating offensive quality and impact.
It looks all well and good with player A only being behind player B by 0.03 P/GP.
But then you realize that there's a 13 point gap in empty net points.
And then you realize that that difference in PP time that the respective teams get is responsible for about 17 points.
Suddenly you're at a pretty significant 0.18 P/GP gap, before even getting into the additional context about the players, like the fact that player A's production is being pulled along by a superior player to him, or the gap in their defensive impacts.

If all that we have established in your analysis is that a 0.18 P/GP is "significant," then the P/GP difference between Connor McDavid's 1.87 to Auston Matthews 1.15 in 2022-23, (0.72) or over their careers McDavid's 1.49 vs Matthews's 1.12 (0.37) is pretty much case closed, shut the eff up, right?

Can't we enjoy Matthews without engaging in this unflattering comparison?

 

[myleafs]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

Thanks for the chuckle...made my day.

Matthews on par with Mcdavid, Dekes and you know all and everyone else stoopid, we were so much better with Dubas and his vision.....man... comedy gold Jerry comedy gold

cheers...lol

 

[Stephen]

I respect your opinion, but I do think it is colored by the recent season (where he was injured). Your opinion is bleak because you are pessimistic currently. That may change. Better minds than you and I have compared them - Gretzky comes to mind. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Who knows? Matthews may score 70 next year, pushing for the big money contract. Or maybe he scores 70 and wins the cup! We don't know. But I do know I've been around this game long enough to be right more often than I'm wrong.

I think we can enjoy Matthews without engaging in terribly unflattering comparisons with a player who might be Top 3 greatest.

Matthews already enjoys the reputation and salary of a player befitting a player who scores 60 G and 100 PTS every year.

Why do we go through the exercise of trying to prove he's on the McDavid tier when you just never get that level of dominance?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[egd27]

OVERPAID. No. Each is 100point player and one a 60 goal scorer. They were under paid for the later end of their contracts. Some are just jaded with impatience, and consequently this is effecting the team. If more could be like me, Dekes, kd, et al, we might be in better shape. Dubas might still be here if we had more grassroots support. You really don't switch horses in mid-stream. For the first time in seven years, I am now in fear of what's ahead.

You forgot the at the end of your post.

 

[Stephen]

At that AAV, really hope that's not a 3x year term.

 

[therealkoho]

When did McDavid win a cup?

Did he not win the Athletic Cup in '17?