News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Stephen]

Precisely. Raw totals don't paint the entire picture. When you look at the totality of the stats, Matthews has a comparable impact offensively on the game as McDavid, sans defensive metrics.

No, Matthews does not have comparable offensive impact to McDavid. Come on.

The whole premise of 5 on 5 stats being bread and butter is that PP opportunities are variable, and if comparable PP time presented, things level out.

But there is no amount of other stuff Matthews can be doing that closes the gap between 71 McDavid PP points and 28 Matthews PP points. Being 43 points worse than McDavid on PP time is not a positive thing for Auston Matthews.

 

[mjd1001]

Is McDavid better? He probably has more pure talent.

If I'm Matthews however, in contract negotiations I am bringing up the following:

-Scoring goals is harder than accumulating assists. For every goal scored 2 assists are given out, so its easier to get assists. But I'm a better goal scorer. My best year I missed a few games but had more goals per game that McDavid did his best year. Over the last 3 years I have more goals per game than him. For my career, I have more goals per game and more goals overall (despite one less year and less games)

-My team is better with me on it than his is with his. He has what some would argue as another top 5 player in the league on his team (sometimes his line), yet my team with me leading it gets more points and has more success year after year and for our entire careers.

My personal opinion, McDavid is better than Matthews overall, but the gap isn't huge. It may SEEM its huge for 2 reasons: 1.) We are TOLD by the media that McDavid is so much better and 2.) he is faster and plays a more 'exciting' game with more 'highlight real goals' that get more attention. But the gap isn't as big as many think between these 2.

 

[kevsh]

But the gap isn't as big as many think between these 2.

Unfortunately, when you factor the legit concern over Matthews' persistent wrist/hand problems his case for McDavid++ money is hurt even more than a straight comparison between the two.

Unless the Leafs' medical staff have unconditionally confirmed through rigorous examination of Matthews that whatever issues he's had are gone and never to return, there's a big risk giving him a monster deal.

If the Leafs aren't 100% on his health, I'd strongly urge him to push for a longer term deal at less AAV while the Leafs should push for a shorter deal just in case.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

No, Matthews does not have comparable offensive impact to McDavid. Come on.

The whole premise of 5 on 5 stats being bread and butter is that PP opportunities are variable, and if comparable PP time presented, things level out.

But there is no amount of other stuff Matthews can be doing that closes the gap between 71 McDavid PP points and 28 Matthews PP points. Being 43 points worse than McDavid on PP time is not a positive thing for Auston Matthews.

I addressed this in my recent response to the renowned poster Dekes. While McDavid did have a wonderful season - full credit to him - a lot of his PPP were noise. Matthews - as you well know - was injured. Taking these two factors into account, they are comparable offensively - with McDavid getting the edge. By the way, if you are soo keen on raw point totals, do 2021-2022 and add in defensive metrics. I'll be waiting. To finish this rant, I'll close with the following: cherish what you have while you have it, for today will soon be tomorrow and an ever fading memory.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lol so dramatic. Also completely untrue.







Matthews is plenty fast enough to kill penalties. That said, despite defensive proficiency, I don’t know why anyone would actually want him there. Or Marner. Or Nylander

To date he’s one of the biggest reasons the team has failed to win a few playoff rounds and it’s partially his fault they are not built to be a Cup contender.

 

[Nineteen67]

I’ve only seen McDavid play about 10 times but from what I’ve seen McDavid is better than Matthews. At least on the Wow factor.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

I’ve only seen McDavid play about 10 times but from what I’ve seen McDavid is better than Matthews. At least on the Wow factor.

I've watched him about four hundred times and I can agree he is definitely high on the wow factor but abysmal defensively. He tries to fly the zone constantly. Matthews' game is much more polished.

 

[Nineteen67]

I've watched him about four hundred times and I can agree he is definitely high on the wow factor but abysmal defensively. He tries to fly the zone constantly. Matthews' game is much more polished.

if Matthews had more “give a crap“ and wasn’t always scared he’d be dangerous.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My personal opinion, McDavid is better than Matthews overall, but the gap isn't huge. It may SEEM its huge for 2 reasons: 1.) We are TOLD by the media that McDavid is so much better and 2.) he is faster and plays a more 'exciting' game with more 'highlight real goals' that get more attention. But the gap isn't as big as many think between these 2.

The gap has been pretty substantial most seasons and it was absolutely freaking enormous last season. The only season it was close was when Matthews won the Hart.

I addressed this in my recent response to the renowned poster Dekes. While McDavid did have a wonderful season - full credit to him - a lot of his PPP were noise. Matthews - as you well know - was injured. Taking these two factors into account, they are comparable offensively - with McDavid getting the edge. By the way, if you are soo keen on raw point totals, do 2021-2022 and add in defensive metrics. I'll be waiting. To finish this rant, I'll close with the following: cherish what you have while you have it, for today will soon be tomorrow and an ever fading memory.

1st bolded - I don't know what that means and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

2nd bolded - That's not an argument, just noise and it suggests your letting emotions cloud your judgement.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

The gap has been pretty substantial most seasons and it was absolutely freaking enormous last season. The only season it was close was when Matthews won the Hart.


1st bolded - I don't know what that means and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

2nd bolded - That's not an argument, just noise and it suggests your letting emotions cloud your judgement.

1) There will never be another PP season like that. It is an exception. Matthews 2016-2022 was the rule.

2) How quickly you lot sour over the greatest player this franchise has seen in 30 years and maybe ever (should he win a cup).

The renowned poster Dekes, and a few others in this thread, are the only one with eyes and an unflinching nerve. I don't really know how soo many can't see the big picture, a la Dubas' vision.

 

[Gary Nylund]

-Scoring goals is harder than accumulating assists. For every goal scored 2 assists are given out, so its easier to get assists. But I'm a better goal scorer. My best year I missed a few games but had more goals per game that McDavid did his best year. Over the last 3 years I have more goals per game than him. For my career, I have more goals per game and more goals overall (despite one less year and less games)

I wonder if you're familiar with the goals created stat on hockey reference? This attempts to address this imbalance by weighting goals more heavily then assists. Not possible to come up with an exact formula of course but at least they thought about it, and come up something.

Just so you know, Matthews scores highly here but he's still a distant second overall to MCDavid in this category, both in goals created and goals created per game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

1) There will never be another PP season like that. It is an exception. Matthews 2016-2022 was the rule.

2) How quickly you lot sour over the greatest player this franchise has seen in 30 years and maybe ever (should he win a cup).

The renowned poster Dekes, and a few others in this thread, are the only one with eyes and an unflinching nerve. I don't really know how soo many can't see the big picture, a la Dubas' vision.

1)
I always look at the big picture, never just one season. The more recent the season though, the more weight it carries, that's just common sense.

2)
Souring on him - your emotions are again distorting your thoughts. McDavid is a much better hockey player, that's no knock on Matthews.

3)
LOL Dekes and LOL Dubas' vision.

 

[Stephen]

I addressed this in my recent response to the renowned poster Dekes. While McDavid did have a wonderful season - full credit to him - a lot of his PPP were noise. Matthews - as you well know - was injured. Taking these two factors into account, they are comparable offensively - with McDavid getting the edge. By the way, if you are soo keen on raw point totals, do 2021-2022 and add in defensive metrics. I'll be waiting. To finish this rant, I'll close with the following: cherish what you have while you have it, for today will soon be tomorrow and an ever fading memory.

Look. Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews are not comparable players. That's the beginning and end of the conversation. You can appreciate McDavid. Admire Matthews, and keep those two things separate. But where Leafs fans get onto uneven ground is when they try to bring the two together on an even plane, and that spills over into the contract talk.

The origins of a 5 on 5 debate, devaluing of PP points and elevating goal scoring originated during the 2016-17 season when Matthews scored 40 goals as a rookie and only 69 points whereas McDavid scored 100 points as a sophomore, but only 30 goals. You could plausibly skew the numbers so that if Babcock had utilized Matthews more on special teams, didn't play about 4 minutes less than McDavid, you might actually have 2 very similar players...

And so the theory went. And the years went by and Matthews has been a great player for the Maple Leafs. But he's not close to McDavid. He's had one season that comes close to being a routine McDavid season. And there's no amount of 5 on 5 doctoring, PP debates, defensive hype game, shot block statistics that bridges that gap. McDavid has 850 points. Matthews has 542. To enjoy Matthews, don't compare him to McDavid. For me personally, there is no satisfaction in rummaging through numbers just to find a shred of evidence that may suggest the two are similar.

 

[Stephen]

1) There will never be another PP season like that. It is an exception. Matthews 2016-2022 was the rule.

2) How quickly you lot sour over the greatest player this franchise has seen in 30 years and maybe ever (should he win a cup).

The renowned poster Dekes, and a few others in this thread, are the only one with eyes and an unflinching nerve. I don't really know how soo many can't see the big picture, a la Dubas' vision.

I think you can appreciate Matthews without getting swept away with outlandish comparisons to players who are playing at a different level and always have.

McDavid has 6x 100 point seasons. Matthews has 1x 100 point season. McDavid has 850 career points and Matthews has 542 career points. That is the rule, to use your language. The amount of internet banter you need to eliminate 308 career point difference is not worth the effort and you can enjoy Matthews for being Matthews.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think you can appreciate Matthews without getting swept away with outlandish comparisons to players who are playing at a different level and always have.

McDavid has 6x 100 point seasons. Matthews has 1x 100 point season. McDavid has 850 career points and Matthews has 542 career points. That is the rule, to use your language. The amount of internet banter you need to eliminate 308 career point difference is not worth the effort and you can enjoy Matthews for being Matthews.

Perfect!

 

[ACC1224]

1) There will never be another PP season like that. It is an exception. Matthews 2016-2022 was the rule.

2) How quickly you lot sour over the greatest player this franchise has seen in 30 years and maybe ever (should he win a cup).

The renowned poster Dekes, and a few others in this thread, are the only one with eyes and an unflinching nerve. I don't really know how soo many can't see the big picture, a la Dubas' vision.

That's a club that no one wants to join.

 

[LeafSteel]

1) There will never be another PP season like that. It is an exception. Matthews 2016-2022 was the rule.

2) How quickly you lot sour over the greatest player this franchise has seen in 30 years and maybe ever (should he win a cup).

The renowned poster Dekes, and a few others in this thread, are the only one with eyes and an unflinching nerve. I don't really know how soo many can't see the big picture, a la Dubas' vision.

This post is better than prime coked out Robin Williams.

Holy shit, I’m dead right now…….

 

[WTFMAN99]

McDavid > Matthews and it's not even close.

I'd try to give Matthews enough term to ride out until McDavid is an option

 

[LeafSteel]

McDavid > Matthews and it's not even close.

I'd try to give Matthews enough term to ride out until McDavid is an option

100% with this.

Matthews contract to coincide with McDavid’s.

McDavid is superior to Matthews in every regards, starting with what’s in between his ears.

Losing Matthews to bring in McDavid would be a huge win, provided McDavid stays healthy. Matthews wrist injury is a significant concern at this point. He was not nearly the same player last season.

 

[WTFMAN99]

100% with this.

Matthews contract to coincide with McDavid’s.

McDavid is superior to Matthews in every regards, starting with what’s in between his ears.

Losing Matthews to bring in McDavid would be a huge win, provided McDavid stays healthy. Matthews wrist injury is a significant concern at this point. He was not nearly the same player last season.

Maybe try to get Leon too

We can probably surround them better than what they ever got in Edmonton.

 

[Gabriel426]

Is McDavid better? He probably has more pure talent.

If I'm Matthews however, in contract negotiations I am bringing up the following:

-Scoring goals is harder than accumulating assists. For every goal scored 2 assists are given out, so its easier to get assists. But I'm a better goal scorer. My best year I missed a few games but had more goals per game that McDavid did his best year. Over the last 3 years I have more goals per game than him. For my career, I have more goals per game and more goals overall (despite one less year and less games)

-My team is better with me on it than his is with his. He has what some would argue as another top 5 player in the league on his team (sometimes his line), yet my team with me leading it gets more points and has more success year after year and for our entire careers.

My personal opinion, McDavid is better than Matthews overall, but the gap isn't huge. It may SEEM its huge for 2 reasons: 1.) We are TOLD by the media that McDavid is so much better and 2.) he is faster and plays a more 'exciting' game with more 'highlight real goals' that get more attention. But the gap isn't as big as many think between these 2.

McD is at least two tier above anyone else in the league.

The gap between McD and the next best player is huge.

The fact that McD didn’t need anyone to set up his goals like how MM does with AM is another reason why McD is much better.

The only thing is defence that AM got the edge but how to quantify defence? Kampf is as good as AM in the defence aspect of the game and he is being, in my opinion, overpaid by 500-700g.

McD also won more playoffs rounds than AM and made it to the ECF.

Leafs is a much better team than the Oilers if both teams take away AM and McD. Let’s not kid ourselves that AM made the Leafs a better team than the McD and his Oilers by being their 1C.

If anything, I think the fact that McD not being in the East is hurting the medias to push how great he is.

 

[Gabriel426]

I really think it should be forum rules that we cannot compare anyone to McD until either someone really is on his level or McD begins to slow down.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think you can appreciate Matthews without getting swept away with outlandish comparisons to players who are playing at a different level and always have.

McDavid has 6x 100 point seasons. Matthews has 1x 100 point season. McDavid has 850 career points and Matthews has 542 career points. That is the rule, to use your language. The amount of internet banter you need to eliminate 308 career point difference is not worth the effort and you can enjoy Matthews for being Matthews.

Can you imagine this in reverse. Can you IMAGINE this in reverse?

Over the past two seasons Matthews has a 1.2 ppg (102 points/82). McDavid has 1.7 ppg (139 points /82). Goals/82 are pretty much damn well even.

Can you IMAGINE this in reverse? Imagine saying that players with so many less points on other teams were Matthews equal.

Let's look at some of those players.

Matthews point total is 73% of McDavids over the past 2 years.

Ok. Let's look at some players 73% LOWER in points than Matthews.

Roop Hintz. Lol. Does he deserve the same aav as Matthews? Because that argument is just as logical as saying Matthews is McDavid tier. Or how about Brock Nelson? Is he worthy of Matthews upcoming cap hit? "But but but... PP time and other such bullshit." Lol, DON'T YOU SEE, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN REVERSE!!!!!

Do you see how crazy this sounds in reverse? Why is that never part of the discussion? Doing the propagandist's arguments in reverse?

DO YOU SEE HOW CRAZY THIS SOUNDS IN REVERSE?

 

[Niagara Bill]

OVERPAID. No. Each is 100point player and one a 60 goal scorer. They were under paid for the later end of their contracts. Some are just jaded with impatience, and consequently this is effecting the team. If more could be like me, Dekes, kd, et al, we might be in better shape. Dubas might still be here if we had more grassroots support. You really don't switch horses in mid-stream. For the first time in seven years, I am now in fear of what's ahead.

Mid stream, we cannot get past the first step. This horse is scared to swim the stream. If you really want to get across the stream, we need change.
Bill, you had a chande to win and it is still 56 yrs.
What will you say when AM has 85 points and 35 goals this year. In a year when guys scored 150 points and MM hit 99, AM looked well below the "best player" in the league.

 

[Arzak]

OVERPAID. No. Each is 99point player and one a 60 goal scorer. They were under paid for the later end of their contracts. Some are just jaded with impatience, and consequently this is effecting the team. If more could be like me, Dekes, kd, et al, we might be in better shape. Dubas might still be here if we had more grassroots support. You really don't switch horses in mid-stream. For the first time in seven years, I am now in fear of what's ahead.

Fixed it for you.