Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
MacKinnon also isn't the best player in the world, but he still ended up with the highest aav. It's not as if he gave the Avs a deal either
News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets
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MacKinnon also isn't the best player in the world, but he still ended up with the highest aav. It's not as if he gave the Avs a deal either
How about signing him to his proper value instead of always bending over to players bc we don’t a replacement and that’s why we need to overpaid them.
He didn’t give the Avs a deal but he didn’t take them to the cleaners either. Plus he just won a Cup for his team. Can we say the same if AM signs for 13mil?
- Jan 22, 2007
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He's better than Matthews, took less on his last deal, and just delivered a Cup. If he wanted to, he could have told them 14 mil and Sakic would have no choice but to pay him. We all know that.
In what bizarro world are we trying to justify Matthews and his ONE playoff win in 7 years to Nate MacKinnon lmao. We need to stop with excuses and just say it out loud -- Matthews is a greedy, spoiled kid who cares more about making every dollar he can than winning, and it doesn't matter to him if he screws the cap for the Leafs. Let's just be open and honest about it instead of making up excuses.
Care to give it a shot to explain how you come to that assertion?
It certainly isn't based on real world results when comparing the 2 players.
Lets give AM the benefits of the doubt until we see the new deal. IF he signs for 12.34 for 8 years, thats a fair deal for the Leafs.
Having said that, I am with you, I just to see why Leafs need to make him the highest paid player in the league on a short deal.
If he takes team to cleaners this summer and does not take us to a Cup next year he will be run outta town .. i still hope he takes a team friendly deal under MAC's and makes a statement to its paying customers .. but there is a reason he has never been a leader in his life
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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People put too much stock in the “level” of better to justify what they like.
Is Matthews a better player at 13 million than he is right now?
If Eichel and Vegas met Matthews and the Leafs in the first round, is Matthews leaving him and their team in the dust. Is the difference between Eichel 10 and Matthews 11.6-13 out of this world better in the playoffs?
If Marner at say 12 goes head to head with Tkachuk at 9.5 is he vastly superior?
You need a balanced team and cap, not just the most money thrown at a few and peanuts for the rest.
Come on, in what metrics is AM a better player than Mack?
Just bc Mack is better, it doesn't mean AM sucks.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I think a lot of people in this thread tend to exaggerate the uniqueness of Matthews contract position, when he's not really all that different than similar players in similar circumstances.
We don't know what Matthews cap hit will be yet, so there's not much point in getting riled up about hypotheticals
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Treliving wasn't even tough on Kampf. He's going to get wrecked by Matthews and Nylander. 
Kampf could use the couple extra hundred thousand or whatever.Treliving wasn't even tough on Kampf. He's going to get wrecked by Matthews and Nylander.
Matthews and Nylander already loaded up the wazoo
- Jan 22, 2007
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Surely. Before I get into raw numbers, I'll start with some low-hanging fruit:
1. The eye test. MacKinnon simply plays with a fire, anger, and engine that Matthews doesn't. When MacKinnon grabs the puck and starts to go he's downright violent. He goes fast and hard into the zone and will do whatever it takes to get to the net. Matthews has an elite shot but thrives on the fringe and has zero interest in playing angry or getting dirty to produce (hence his awful playoff numbers when the games level up and get harder to play).
2. Attitude. After being bounced in the playoffs, MacKinnon exploded post game, tells the reporters, "I haven't won s--t yet!", then challenges his teammates to take their diets and conditioning more seriously and returns the next year to help lead the Avs to a Cup win. Conversely, Matthews gets bounced from the playoffs (once again) and in back-to-back years spends his offseason following Bieber around and asking management to relax the dress code for the players. You tell me what that says about each player and where their priorities lie. We can defend Matthews to the end because he's our player but we need to at least be honest.
3. Now, for the numbers. Since Matthews signed his last deal 5 years ago...
Auston Matthews:
73pts. in 68GP
80pts. in 70GP
66pts. in 52GP
106pts. in 73GP
85pts. in 74GP
Total: 410pts. in 337GP = 1.22PPG
Nathan MacKinnon:
99pts. in 82GP
93pts. in 69GP
65pts. in 48GP
88pts. in 65GP
111pts. in 71GP
Total: 456pts. in 335GP = 1.37PPG
And MacKinnon's high water mark is 111 points in 71GP. Matthews is 106 points in 73GP.
Even more importantly are their playoff numbers:
Auston Matthews: 0.88PPG
Nathan MacKinnon: 1.3PPG
Yes, Matthews has a Hart and two Rockets. But MacKinnon has a Cup and is significantly better in the playoffs. What's even more interesting is that Matthews only claim to being a "better offensive player" is goal scoring, yet in the playoffs:
Auston Matthews: 36 goals over 82GP
Nathan MacKinnon: 47 goals over 82GP
No matter how you realistically slice it, MacKinnon is the better offensive player (unless you're trying to factor in his early, sucky years on those garbage Avs teams, which of course would be 100% irrelevant when talking about MacKinnon's contract last summer and Matthews this summer).
In addition to being a better offensive player, MacKinnon is a champion and plays with a level of fire and passion that Matthews doesn't.
As for the overblown "defensive play" we supposedly see from Matthews -- it's completely irrelevant. Almost as irrelevant as their average career +/- which would give Matthews the edge: +18 vs. +13 (which factors in MacKinnon's early years on the crummy Avs when he was a minus player 3 times). Neither player is Bob Gainey or Patrice Bergeron and neither player's defense is the reason they are winning or losing hockey games.
Fans trying to oversell Matthews by adding his "defensive play" as a caveat is packing crap in a bag to make it look more full. When Matthews turns into Pavel Datsyuk let's talk about his defensive play. Until then, he's being paid to score goals, generate offense, and win Stanley Cups, period.
Nathan MacKinnon is a perfect comp for what Auston Matthews should be paid (and quite honestly, that's being a hair generous). But since the Leafs already overpaid him once and there's no reversing course, sure, give him the same exact deal MacKinnon got (which is more than McDavid). In fact, pay Auston another 100k just so he can own the label of "highest paid player in hockey history" which means so much to him.
In no fair, or realistic, world should Auston Matthews be paid 13.5 - 14 mil a year (and accept anything less than 8 years) when MacKinnon just signed for 12.6, Pastrnak for 11.5, and Tkachuk for 9.5. Especially since all of them signed long-term.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
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Kampf makes 5x less than Matthews on his new deal. Kampf makes 40x more than your average office worker. Pardon me if I don’t really give a shit about how many more 100ks he “could use”. If he’s smart with his money his grandkids will never work a day in their lives.
Not actually taking ones side here, was sorta in jest, with the other poster freaking out that Matthews will ask for more now cuz Kampf got "little more"
1 playoffs round win Vs how many?
Ever since Mack became 'The Man' for the Avs, he just hadn't look back.
Is AM 'The Man' for the Leafs or is he just a great complimentary piece?
If he is 'The Man', Leafs sucks in playoffs under his leadership, if he is a great complimentary piece, then why is Leafs making him the highest paid player in the league?
Ever since Mack became 'The Man' for the Avs, he just hadn't look back.
Is AM 'The Man' for the Leafs or is he just a great complimentary piece?
If he is 'The Man', Leafs sucks in playoffs under his leadership, if he is a great complimentary piece, then why is Leafs making him the highest paid player in the league?
a 3 year deal at 3 million per for someone who is likely still close to PPG........ that's bad?
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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This.
Both great players but there are maybe 6 people that would take Matthews over Mackinon
Would JT still be close to PPG in 2years?
Exactly, for some reason, some here thinks Leafs best players need to be the best players in the league too. As some to even hinted at having AM and MM defensive game is better than having McD.
Even if he is a 50-60pt player, that is still worth 3 million.
But people have been telling me he sucks for over 3 years now, so wouldn't surprise me if he maintains 70+ points at that age, it isn't like he will get much slower, he doesn't rely on speed.
He relies on PP to get his productions. There are pros and cons to that.
He doesn't sucks these past years, just overpaid.
The fact that Keefe would rather remove Willie instead of JT off top PP unit and added ROR to that mix who literally played in the same spot as JT on the PP, just showed how Keefe needs to keep JT stats up in order to show he is worth his contract.
- Jan 22, 2007
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Exactly right. And both Matthews and Marner know this but don't appear to care. If there was no hard cap, I wouldn't care if the Leafs paid them each $40 mil a year and built them state-of-the-art condos in the old Maple Leaf Gardens. But as long as they play in a league where a hard cap exists, they should show professional maturity and balance their contracts with helping their team contend for a Cup... unless their only priority is money. Let's be perfectly clear here -- Matthews could sign a team-friendly, long-term deal with the Leafs and still make over $160 million playing hockey.
Nobody is asking him, or expecting him, to play for peanuts. But when you are supposed to be an elite player and have ONE playoff win in 7 years, when is enough enough with the contracts? At what point do you leave some money on the table so the team can surround you with a better supporting cast?
These kids can't have it both ways, not in a hard cap world. And the problem with the constant 5-year deals is that once the deals start being team friendly, they are up, and the players get to ask for a larger % the cap, which removes all of that advantage.
McDavid, Drai, Crosby, Malkin, Kane, etc. were all paid good money, but it hit a point where their deals were "team friendly" because they were long-term. This is what fans of the Leafs seem to ignore. Matthews and Marner have bent us over in both salary and term.
Say Matthews signs next week for 12.75 mil x 8. Yes, the Leafs will be strapped for 2-3 years, but if the cap goes up 5-6 million in 4 years, the team now has the resources to improve the supporting cast because they have cost-certainty with a 29 year old Matthews for another 4 years after that. That's how this works. But as long as we keep giving Matthews 5 year deals, any cap increases will be spent on giving him and Marner constant raises instead of surrounding them with better talent to help them win.
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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You’ve introduced 3 hypotheticals here, and asking me whether it’s good or bad.
1) That JT at 35, in 3 years time will be close to PPG.
2) Willing to sign for $3 million.
3) At the end of the next contract, in 5 years time will still be providing value at $3 million.
Since I don’t have a crystal ball, I’m just just going to stick to my beliefs that if I’m not a fan of JT at 33 years of age. I’m not going to like him at 38. I would pass.
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