Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[The90]

Great breakdown but stats are stats. It's why as much as I revere Wilt Chamberlain there are reasons he only won 2 chips and not ONLY because he played on lesser teams (two Finals he absolutely should have won and frankly choked up).

The THREAT that was Ovechkin in multiple seasons I just haven't seen from Matthews in a clearly higher scoring era. The Bure comparisons are apt and say what you will he also strikes me as more dangerous than Matthews. It's the whole argument with McDavid, they are arguably better overall players but not greater snipers. Nevermind if we include Selanne and Hull in this at their best.


Now when it looked like Matthews would eclipse 70? That's a different story. I am very much rooting for him to do that. 66 or 67 or 68 doesn't do much to push the needle for me. 69 I'll give him.

It’s bizarre to see someone miss the mark so much lol

Only modern player to have 2 60+ goal seasons, more goals than ovechkin thus far into his career and somehow he’s not as much of a threat.

That:
1. Literally makes no sense
2. Leads me to believe you just don’t want to see Matthews on that same level, with results telling you otherwise.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The problem is you can't add magical goals that didn't happen.

If we could Matthews would be at about 80 goals.

At last check he league in posts hit, including another one last night.

You can't do that's though.

All your adjustments are is adding fake goals to Ovechkin so that you can boost Ovechkin.

Your adjustments are about as real as the easter bunny, they are completely fake.

Posts are just a missed shot on net.

Do you agree that JT miller is a better player than prime Stamkos?

 

[Randyne]

Only modern player to have 2 60+ goal seasons, more goals than ovechkin thus far into his career and somehow he’s not as much of a threat.

Of course Ovechkin was a bigger threat than Matthews.
Ovi produced a lot more for WSH than AM for TOR.

Season	WSH GF	Ovi G	%OviG		Season	TOR GF	AM G	%AMG
20072008​	238​	65​	27.3​		20232024​	275​	64​	23.3​
20132014​	225​	51​	22.7​		20202021​	186​	41​	22.0​
20052006​	230​	52​	22.6​		20192020​	237​	47​	19.8​
20142015​	237​	53​	22.4​		20212022​	312​	60​	19.2​
20122013​	146​	32​	21.9​		20162017​	250​	40​	16.0​
20082009​	268​	56​	20.9​		20222023​	278​	40​	14.4​
20192020​	236​	48​	20.3​		20182019​	286​	37​	12.9​
20152016​	248​	50​	20.2​		20172018​	270​	34​	12.6​
20062007​	234​	46​	19.7​
20172018​	256​	49​	19.1​
20182019​	274​	51​	18.6​
20212022​	270​	50​	18.5​
20112012​	218​	38​	17.4​
20222023​	253​	42​	16.6​
20092010​	313​	50​	16.0​
20102011​	219​	32​	14.6​
20232024​	204​	29​	14.2​
20202021​	188​	24​	12.8​
20162017​	261​	33​	12.6​

Season	WSH GF	Ovi P	%OviP		Season	TOR GF	AM P	%AMP
20072008​	238​	112​	47.1​		20232024​	275​	100​	36.4​
20052006​	230​	106​	46.1​		20202021​	186​	66​	35.5​
20082009​	268​	110​	41.0​		20212022​	312​	106​	34.0​
20062007​	234​	92​	39.3​		20192020​	237​	80​	33.8​
20102011​	219​	85​	38.8​		20222023​	278​	85​	30.6​
20122013​	146​	56​	38.4​		20162017​	250​	69​	27.6​
20132014​	225​	79​	35.1​		20182019​	286​	73​	25.5​
20092010​	313​	109​	34.8​		20172018​	270​	63​	23.3​
20142015​	237​	81​	34.2​
20172018​	256​	87​	34.0​
20212022​	270​	90​	33.3​
20182019​	274​	89​	32.5​
20232024​	204​	62​	30.4​
20112012​	218​	65​	29.8​
20222023​	253​	75​	29.6​
20152016​	248​	71​	28.6​
20192020​	236​	67​	28.4​
20162017​	261​	69​	26.4​
20202021​	188​	42​	22.3​

Also if we are talking about threats here is on-ice GF.

Season	WSH GF	Ovi TGF	%OviTGF		Season	TOR GF	AM TGF	%AMTGF
20072008​	238​	150​	63.0​		20232024​	275​	141​	51.3​
20082009​	268​	162​	60.4​		20222023​	278​	137​	49.3​
20052006​	230​	132​	57.4​		20192020​	237​	113​	47.7​
20122013​	146​	81​	55.5​		20212022​	312​	147​	47.1​
20062007​	234​	124​	53.0​		20202021​	186​	85​	45.7​
20172018​	256​	130​	50.8​		20162017​	250​	86​	34.4​
20182019​	274​	138​	50.4​		20182019​	286​	92​	32.2​
20102011​	219​	110​	50.2​		20172018​	270​	83​	30.7​
20142015​	237​	117​	49.4​
20152016​	248​	122​	49.2​
20232024​	204​	98​	48.0​
20212022​	270​	129​	47.8​
20132014​	225​	107​	47.6​
20092010​	313​	148​	47.3​
20192020​	236​	106​	44.9​
20222023​	253​	110​	43.5​
20112012​	218​	94​	43.1​
20162017​	261​	111​	42.5​
20202021​	188​	69​	36.7​

Total annihilation. It's hard to be a threat sitting on the bench or golfing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Would be fun to watch Matthews possibly scoring 2 or 3 goals against Dubas’ Pens team and deliver a dagger to their playoff hopes. Sorry, Sid, but you endorsed that tool bag.

 

[PaulD]

You must of skipped the Tampa leafs game threads last year then Paul from Dundas

Yes, I must have blinked and missed it. Ha!

Seriously did he finally produce in a play off series?

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

People here arguing which season was more impressive from a goal scoring perspective and I still think it was Ovechkin considering team and era but what people SHOULD be arguing is how both players had teams that struggled to get out of the 2nd round. Why is that? Ovechkin was doing his part in scoring, a lot of Game 7 losses....

This is why guys like Lemieux come out so strong ahead, they won come playoff time.

The answer to this and any other hockey question is Variance.
Hockey generates many, many random events in short periods of time, sometimes those random events tilt in your favour, sometimes they do not. Maybe the ice is poor, maybe the puck bounces off a back, maybe the catcher's mitt is off a centimeter or two, maybe other factors come into play. Maybe the seeding in a Conference lines up for you.

There isn't a lot a player or goaltender can do other than perform the task assigned by the coach. If they do that, they might win given bounces and continued efforts.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Secondly. I am the only one who says The end.

Yes

 

[Randyne]

Lol. Hit a nerve I see. Truth hurts.

What truth? AM is a passenger, hundreds points behind a leader, outscoring old Ovi by 2 goals. Ovi was NHL leader carrying his team on his shoulders. You can't change that by loling.

 

[Peasy]

Yes, I must have blinked and missed it. Ha!

Seriously did he finally produce in a play off series?

Produced more than Kucherov both series they played.

 

[PaulD]

Lol. Hit a nerve I see. Truth hurts.

I just checked man, I only see 1 60 goal season? And through the same amount of games played, Matthews has more goals?????

But then I suppose if up is down and down is really up, you’re right. Very sound argument.


You mean the guy who’s been brutal in the playoffs, yet is somehow still ~20th in active players ppg???

Must be horrible. Hugely overblown.

20th ? you bragging or complaining.
All kidding a side. I don't usually watch the leafs play at play off time. Because their are always 7 other series going on in the first round.
Being a Habs fan I did see the Leafs vs Habs in the first round a few years ago. Matthews ? Did not impress.
But one of these year he will ......maybe this one.

 

[Foppberg]

Meh. Scoring is at a crazy level, 60 today is like 50 ten years ago.

 

[The90]

What truth? AM is a passenger, hundreds points behind a leader, outscoring old Ovi by 2 goals. Ovi was NHL leader carrying his team on his shoulders. You can't change that by loling.

…. He outscored young ovi too. I don’t need to change anything. It’s a literal fact that’s why I lol

 

[ijuka]

…. He outscored young ovi too. I don’t need to change anything. It’s a literal fact that’s why I lol

Young Ovi had an insanely bad team.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Meh. Scoring is at a crazy level, 60 today is like 50 ten years ago.

There used to be 10-14 fifty goal scorers per year. Right now there are 3. Only one of whom you would safely bet on repeating.

 

[PaulD]

Produced more than Kucherov both series they played.

I’m not doing either. I’m saying the narrative you’re trying to push is wrong.

Matthews dominated every aspect of that series and couldn’t solve price for whatever reason they have a habit of that. It’s not my fault your blinders prevented you from seeing that.


Sweet. He still got outscored.

Gee NHL goalies coming up big in play offs? That's new. ......not like all the other stars who won and did score were playing against stiffs.
Holtby, Rask, Rask, Jackets goalie, Price, Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky......yes they all with stood the test of Matthews in play offs.
Leafs fans just can't admit the guy has a question mark beside his name for play off hockey. He will erase it one of the years. Then you won't need excuses.
50 games 22 goals. Not too shabby. Not Draisaitl play off numbers but not bad for a Leaf.
1-7 in play off series. Invisible on stat sheet in how many games 7s?

 

[The90]

Gee NHL goalies coming up big in play offs? That's new. ......not like all the other stars who won and did score were playing against stiffs.
Holtby, Rask, Rask, Jackets goalie, Price, Vasilevskiy, Bobrovsky......yes they all with stood the test of Matthews in play offs.
Leafs fans just can't admit the guy has a question mark beside his name for play off hockey. He will erase it one of the years. Then you won't need excuses.
50 games 22 goals. Not too shabby. Not Draisaitl play off numbers but not bad for a Leaf.
1-7 in play off series. Invisible on stat sheet in how many games 7s?

I think he for sure has a question mark beside his name. His numbers have gone down in the playoffs more than any other current star. Everyone’s stats do to some extent, but in comparison to his peers his are worse. Not to mention they continue to make goalies look like prime Hasek every year. That’s a problem in itself.

But at the same time, we also can’t pretend he’s still ~20th in active player p/pg. That’s not nearly terrible, it’s just not what we’re used to seeing in the regular season. There have been playoff series that he was outright dominant and doesn’t have the points to back up just how good he was. The montreal series is a good example of that.

Go look at Kucherov’s game 7 stats. They’re horrid too. It’s a talking point you’re running with, because as you admit, you don’t watch the leafs in the playoffs.

 

[filinski77]

There used to be 10-14 fifty goal scorers per year. Right now there are 3. Only one of whom you would safely bet on repeating.

What does what happened in the 80's have to do with an Ovi vs. Matthews comparison? It is an objective fact that scoring has increased both at a league-wide level, and at a top-player level from Ovi's peak to now Matthews peak.
Some can argue that the player skill is higher, I would say that's as subjective as you could possibly be. We've had numerous rule changes on how the game is called, numerous goalie pad size changes etc. Not to mention, no coincidence that Ovi/Crosby/Kane/Malkin etc. all increased their production in like 2017 (despite being post-peak and older), as soon as all of these changes in the game were implemented.

Some will talk about PPTOI differences 15 years ago vs now. Well if PP's are lower now than before, but scoring is overall way up, that has to mean that even strength and powerplay scoring are both easier nowadays to overcompensate for less PP opportunities.

Goal scoring is up one way or another. Just because Hull, Mogilny, Esposito, Selanne, Kurri, Nicholls, Bossy, etc all scored more in a single season than Matthews doesn't mean they peaked higher than him. And in the same facet, it's completely relevant to consider how scoring has changed.

Scoring over the last few years is simply just up like 10-15% from Ovi's 08-10 peak, and about 25% more from his 2013-2016 2nd goalscoring peak. This does not diminish that Matthews is the best goalscorer in the world right now, it does not diminish that he's already one of the best of all-time, and it does not diminish that he's peaked pretty close (or equal) to Ovechkin in goalscoring. But it does add context that the raw numbers do not tell the whole story.

	2008​	2009​	2010​	2014​	2015​	2016​		2022​	2023​	2024​	2024 est?
1st	65​	56​	51​	51​	53​	50​		60​	64​	64​	68​
2nd	52​	46​	51​	43​	43​	46​		55​	61​	53​	56​
5th	43​	40​	42​	37​	37​	38​		47​	51​	47​	49​
10th	40​	39​	35​	34​	33​	33​		42​	42​	41​	43​
30th	29​	31​	29​	28​	27​	28​		34​	36​	31​	33​
#50 goal	3​	1​	3​	1​	1​	1​		4​	5​	3​	4​
#40 goal	10​	8​	7​	3​	3​	4​		17​	19​	15​	17​
#30 goal	28​	39​	24​	21​	15​	28​		51​	54​	38​	43​

 

[Foppberg]

There used to be 10-14 fifty goal scorers per year. Right now there are 3. Only one of whom you would safely bet on repeating.

? In the 80s?

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Unreal season. Scoring is way up and wr are going to see several guys make
history in matthews, kucherov,McDavid, and possibly mckinnon.

 

[Golden_Jet]

? In the 80s?

Highest double digit, I found was, once there was 10, in Gretzky’s 92 goal season,
Never found any others.
Probably hyperbole,

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

What does what happened in the 80's have to do with an Ovi vs. Matthews comparison? It is an objective fact that scoring has increased both at a league-wide level, and at a top-player level from Ovi's peak to now Matthews peak.
Some can argue that the player skill is higher, I would say that's as subjective as you could possibly be. We've had numerous rule changes on how the game is called, numerous goalie pad size changes etc. Not to mention, no coincidence that Ovi/Crosby/Kane/Malkin etc. all increased their production in like 2017 (despite being post-peak and older), as soon as all of these changes in the game were implemented.

Some will talk about PPTOI differences 15 years ago vs now. Well if PP's are lower now than before, but scoring is overall way up, that has to mean that even strength and powerplay scoring are both easier nowadays to overcompensate for less PP opportunities.

Goal scoring is up one way or another. Just because Hull, Mogilny, Esposito, Selanne, Kurri, Nicholls, Bossy, etc all scored more in a single season than Matthews doesn't mean they peaked higher than him. And in the same facet, it's completely relevant to consider how scoring has changed.

Scoring over the last few years is simply just up like 10-15% from Ovi's 08-10 peak, and about 25% more from his 2013-2016 2nd goalscoring peak. This does not diminish that Matthews is the best goalscorer in the world right now, it does not diminish that he's already one of the best of all-time, and it does not diminish that he's peaked pretty close (or equal) to Ovechkin in goalscoring. But it does add context that the raw numbers do not tell the whole story.

	2008​	2009​	2010​	2014​	2015​	2016​		2022​	2023​	2024​	2024 est?
1st	65​	56​	51​	51​	53​	50​		60​	64​	64​	68​
2nd	52​	46​	51​	43​	43​	46​		55​	61​	53​	56​
5th	43​	40​	42​	37​	37​	38​		47​	51​	47​	49​
10th	40​	39​	35​	34​	33​	33​		42​	42​	41​	43​
30th	29​	31​	29​	28​	27​	28​		34​	36​	31​	33​
#50 goal	3​	1​	3​	1​	1​	1​		4​	5​	3​	4​
#40 goal	10​	8​	7​	3​	3​	4​		17​	19​	15​	17​
#30 goal	28​	39​	24​	21​	15​	28​		51​	54​	38​	43​

Scoring hasn’t increased nearly as much as folks imagine. You are making this way too difficult.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

There used to be 10-14 fifty goal scorers per year. Right now there are 3. Only one of whom you would safely bet on repeating.

Between 2005-2006 and 2018-2019 (14 seasons, 1 which was a shortened season) there were 22 total 50-goal seasons. 8 of those were Ovechkin. The entire league outside of Ovechkin averaged one 50-goal season per year for those 14 years.

Between 2021-2024 (3 seasons) there has been 12 total 50-goal seasons, 2 of those were Matthews. MacK, Pasta and Panarin might add to that number this year if they get hot in the last few games.

So between 10-13x 50-goal seasons outside of Matthews in 3 years compared to 14x 50-goal seasons outside of Ovechkin in 14 years.

This isn't opinion or speculation, scoring is massively up right now and 50-goal seasons are way more common than they were before.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Stop with the shit-talking and passive aggressive bullshit.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

? In the 80s?

14 in 92-93

 

[filinski77]

Scoring hasn’t increased nearly as much as folks imagine. You are making this way too difficult.

I literally just showed you factual evidence as to how much scoring has increased.

I'm not saying it's increased 50%. But to act like 10-15% is not worth some consideration is completely ignorant.