Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[kevsh]

It will take 70+ to make this season better than Ovechkin's 65 in 08.

66 will make it better to everyone except the statheads that cling to things like "era adjusted" comparisons.

(And to be clear I agree on the era-adjustted comparison Matthews would likely have to get 70 to shut those people up, but if he beats 65 that will be what is remembered.)

 

[Strangle]

He added a pace column for Ovechkin. Why leave it out for Matthews?

Seems quite a one-sided comparison. Can we adjust it for PP time?

Update, he just scored again

64 goals in 75 games

What a legend

 

[KaN19]

Good on him.
Tied MCDavid. Thats a huge feat.

Good on Suzuki for tying Vincent Trocheck in points. Huge feat.

 

[Strangle]

We really are in a golden era of talent.

So happy the days of Jamie Benn winning scoring titles with 82 points are long past.

Matthews is a better goalscorer than Ovechkin but is also an elite two-way center. A player like him would've been a fever dream in 2014. Insane to see the skillsets of the players develop.

Finally someone recognizing the TALENT in the league today!

 

[WalterLundy]

66 will make it better to everyone except the statheads that cling to things like "era adjusted" comparisons.

(And to be clear I agree on the era-adjustted comparison Matthews would likely have to get 70 to shut those people up, but if he beats 65 that will be what is remembered.)

If you adjust for Even strength, power play and shorthanded levels then Ovechkin’s 2008 season goes from 65 G, 47 A, 112 points in 82 games to 73 G, 53 A, 126 PTS in 2023-24 levels. For the record I am not declaring one better than the other just posting this as it was brought up and to put it out there for any who were curious.


2023-24: EVG: 2.36, PPG: 0.63, SHG: 0.09
2007-08: EVG: 1.86, PPG: 0.76, SHG: 0.10

 

[PaulD]

Good on Suzuki for tying Vincent Trocheck in points. Huge feat.

Good on Suzuki winning more play off rounds than Mathews and Marner combined.

 

[Strangle]

Yes but Ovie did lead the league in goal scoring 9 times. This year will be Matthews 3rd time.

Ovie didn’t have much competition for a lot of those years

The talent in the league is way better than it was in ovie’s prime

PP goals count, so do all goals.

Why are you adjusting for scoring if all goals are the same? Maybe the players are just more talented today?

They are more talented today

 

[JadedLeaf]

I feel like he is gonna end up stuck on like 68 goals or something, unless he can throw out a hat trick before the final 2 games.

69 would also be nice.

 

[MK9]

If I'm being honest he has to start cooling off now because Toronto can't have him starting a slump during the playoffs

Eh, they should be able to get that one round they'll be there for out of him.

 

[Despote]

Ovie didn’t have much competition for a lot of those years

The talent in the league is way better than it was in ovie’s prime



They are more talented today

We have some interesting data that shows the skill increase in the top players. Comparing 2013-14 to 2023-24, it turns out that the average amount of zone entires is about the same as it was 10 years ago. The top players however are much better in transition than they were 10 years ago. Pattrick Kane was a big outlier in this regard, now there are many players on his level or even ahead of him. A substantial skill increase in the superstars has driven league scoring to heights not witnessed for decades.

 

[Strangle]

We have some interesting data that shows the skill increase in the top players. Comparing 2013-14 to 2023-24, it turns out that the average amount of zone entires is about the same as it was 10 years ago. The top players however are much better in transition than they were 10 years ago. Pattrick Kane was a big outlier in this regard, now there are many players on his level or even ahead of him. A substantial skill increase in the superstars has driven league scoring to heights not witnessed for decades.

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This argument needs to be made much much more often.

Its the correct one

 

[Leksand]

This argument needs to be made much much more often.

Its the correct one

So by approximation, the best player will always be the best player the current season. That’s not wrong as there will always be some progress, and then any discussion of best this or best that all time is pointless.

To me Ovechkin’s most impressive accomplishment is his 9 Rockets - best in the world 9 times. But of course if the world in the past wasn’t any good it’s nothing to speak of.

 

[Fantomas]

Matthews is a better goalscorer than Ovechkin

LOL, let's see if he can lead the league in scoring 10 times. Until then no.

 

[JukofYork]

It will take 70+ to make this season better than Ovechkin's 65 in 08.

I will end all this silly, jealous discussion right now about Mathews vs Ovechkin 08 season.

the only stat you need to look at is how far ahead of the pack mathews is.

These 'adjusted' stats would hold water if Mathews was only ahead by 1-5 goals. He has 10+ goals than the next closest person.

Ovechkin was about the same. 13 goals above the next closest person.

The end.

 

[TheStatican]

1 to surpass McDavid, 2 to surpass Ovechkin.
You just know the haters love to see it

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It will take 70+ to make this season better than Ovechkin's 65 in 08.

No it will take 66 because 66 is a bigger number than 65 that's how counting works.

He might get 70+ but it will take 66

 

[tapi]

Keep in mind that Ovi was sitting in the slot on the PP for 8 minutes a game. Matthews has far surpassed Ovi's peak level when it comes to all-around scoring. He is a threat for the full 60 minutes of the hockey game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Because powerplay goals count?

So do 2023-2024 goals. If the argument is ease of scoring, then it is much, much harder to score in 2023 than it is to score on a PP in 2008.
If we're adjusting for scoring levels, then Ovechkin spending much more time in a higher scoring environment needs to be adjusted for.

 

[crump]

66 is a fine number in honour of Lemieux
67 because nobody has scored exactly 67 and the obvious significance
68 because not even Jagr has scored 68
69 would be…nice
70 - a nice round number

 

[Strangle]

So by approximation, the best player will always be the best player the current season. That’s not wrong as there will always be some progress, and then any discussion of best this or best that all time is pointless.

To me Ovechkin’s most impressive accomplishment is his 9 Rockets - best in the world 9 times. But of course if the world in the past wasn’t any good it’s nothing to speak of.

No, dude wtf are you talking about?

How do you go from a reasoned argument that the main reason scoring is up by 1990’s standards again having to do with players being more talented than Jaimie benn turn into “oh so every latest best player is the GOAT?”

You’re missing some foundational critical thinking skills on this one.

Take a few minutes, days, weeks, whatever it takes and think about this before you jump in

Wayne Gretzky is the GOAT. How does that work? He’s in the past. Remember, take some time to actually think about it before jumping in

 

[AvroArrow]

Good on Suzuki winning more play off rounds than Mathews and Marner combined.

I like Suzuki and I'm happy for you guys to have had that run, but please can we not do this on such a beautiful Sunday morning ?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If you adjust for Even strength, power play and shorthanded levels then Ovechkin’s 2008 season goes from 65 G, 47 A, 112 points in 82 games to 73 G, 53 A, 126 PTS in 2023-24 levels. For the record I am not declaring one better than the other just posting this as it was brought up and to put it out there for any who were curious.


2023-24: EVG: 2.36, PPG: 0.63, SHG: 0.09
2007-08: EVG: 1.86, PPG: 0.76, SHG: 0.10

Hopefully we add the 209 minutes less PP time Matthews has had to his total? Literally 10 full games of 100% PP time.

 

[authentic]

Hopefully we add the 209 minutes less PP time Matthews has had to his total? Literally 10 full games of 100% PP time.

Yeah these have to be adjusted for ice time for those adjustments to work

 

[authentic]

If you adjust for Even strength, power play and shorthanded levels then Ovechkin’s 2008 season goes from 65 G, 47 A, 112 points in 82 games to 73 G, 53 A, 126 PTS in 2023-24 levels. For the record I am not declaring one better than the other just posting this as it was brought up and to put it out there for any who were curious.


2023-24: EVG: 2.36, PPG: 0.63, SHG: 0.09
2007-08: EVG: 1.86, PPG: 0.76, SHG: 0.10

Just curious if you adjust for ice time in each game state? Because if not Ovechkin would benefit from any adjustment that doesn't take this into account with the whopping discrepancy in powerplay time

 

[WalterLundy]

Just curious if you adjust for ice time in each game state? Because if not Ovechkin would benefit from any adjustment that doesn't take this into account with the whopping discrepancy in powerplay time

No I haven’t. For the seasons that have ice time tracked I think you are right that factoring that in would be better. Especially for goals in this specific player comparison for 34 and 8. I mainly use this because it’s the best stat adjustment model for quick comparisons that accounts for the levels and how a player got their points.

If you were comparing say a 1989 Lemieux for goal scoring to a 2024 Auston Matthews you wouldn’t have ice time so this would be a quick way to give you a good idea of what it would look like. 89 Lemieux would be at 65 goals in 76 games now according to the even strength/power play/short handed environment of 1989 brought to 2024. .86 GPG for Mario and .85 GPG for Matthews. Not too shabby for Auston.

Unrelated but Lemieux also would have 89 assists from that year in todays levels. So imagine the average of this years MacKinnon and Kucherov assists totals to go with Auston Matthews goal scoring this year and you have 1989 Mario. 70 goals, 96 assists and 166 point 82 game pace right now.