Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[Golden_Jet]

I will end all this silly, jealous discussion right now about Mathews vs Ovechkin 08 season.

the only stat you need to look at is how far ahead of the pack mathews is.

These 'adjusted' stats would hold water if Mathews was only ahead by 1-5 goals. He has 10+ goals than the next closest person.

Ovechkin was about the same. 13 goals above the next closest person.

The end.

Good on ya,
yep 13 (OV) is > 10 (Matthews)
The end.

Sarcasm emoji.

 

[authentic]

Good on ya,
yep 13 (OV) is > 10 (Matthews)
The end.

Well it's not exactly the end. Matthews is 11 goals up while missing a game and having 2 games in hand on 2nd place to close out the season. We'll see how it plays out, but either way there's no significant difference in the goal scoring dominance of each player.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Well it's not exactly the end. Matthews is 11 goals up while missing a game and having 2 games in hand on 2nd place to close out the season. We'll see how it plays out, but either way there's no significant difference in the goal scoring dominance of each player.

I was being facetious,

 

[PaulD]

I like Suzuki and I'm happy for you guys to have had that run, but please can we not do this on such a beautiful Sunday morning ?

Sure. But it was last night during some nothing games.
Cheers

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Keep in mind that Ovi was sitting in the slot on the PP for 8 minutes a game. Matthews has far surpassed Ovi's peak level when it comes to all-around scoring. He is a threat for the full 60 minutes of the hockey game.

So were you just not alive when Ovechkin was at his best? That's the only explanation I can come up with for this post.

Look, I'm a Leafs fan. Matthews is great. But you're really underestimating how big a threat Ovechkin was back then. He was doing stuff that Matthews is just incapable of doing. He wasn't just scoring off one timers. He was picking corners like Matthews does. He was also scoring a ton off the rush, using speed and creativity that we don't see from Matthews.

A young Ovechkin was truly the most complete goal scorer I've ever seen, there was nothing he couldn't do.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you adjust for Even strength, power play and shorthanded levels then Ovechkin’s 2008 season goes from 65 G, 47 A, 112 points in 82 games to 73 G, 53 A, 126 PTS in 2023-24 levels. For the record I am not declaring one better than the other just posting this as it was brought up and to put it out there for any who were curious.


2023-24: EVG: 2.36, PPG: 0.63, SHG: 0.09
2007-08: EVG: 1.86, PPG: 0.76, SHG: 0.10

The problem is you can't add magical goals that didn't happen.

If we could Matthews would be at about 80 goals.

At last check he league in posts hit, including another one last night.

You can't do that's though.

All your adjustments are is adding fake goals to Ovechkin so that you can boost Ovechkin.

Your adjustments are about as real as the easter bunny, they are completely fake.

 

[WalterLundy]

The problem is you can't add magical goals that didn't happen.

If we could Matthews would be at about 80 goals.

At last check he league in posts hit, including another one last night.

You can't do that's though.

All your adjustments are is adding fake goals to Ovechkin so that you can boost Ovechkin.

Your adjustments are about as real as the easter bunny, they are completely fake.

I’m not an Ovechkin fan nor a leafs fan. I don’t have a dog in this fight and I’m not diminishing Matthews. I don’t care enough to do that. All (any) adjustment does is put numbers into a neutral or specific environment to see what they’d be worth based on differing scoring levels. I literally made a post showing that Matthews this year for goals is comparable to Mario in 1989. Why would I do that? Am I diminishing the best player in franchise history of my favorite team for no reason? No. I’m not attacking the man they call “papi” so we can all relax. I don’t like Ovechkin at all. I actually think that he and Ovi are comparable goal scorers for what it’s worth I just was adding that to the overall conversation in the event people were curious.

 

[Incognito]

It’s too bad Matthews couldn’t have mustered up one more goal in 2019-2020. If he had, then he’d be on the verge of winning the fourth Rocket Richard Trophy of his career right now.

 

[PaulD]

Ovie didn’t have much competition for a lot of those years

The talent in the league is way better than it was in ovie’s prime



They are more talented today

that would mean today's goal scorers are being set up by more talented line mates and dmen.

 

[PaulD]

It’s too bad Matthews couldn’t have mustered up one more goal in 2019-2020. If he had, then he’d be on the verge of winning the fourth Rocket Richard Trophy of his career right now.

I've read a thousand posts on Matthews and his great scoring skills and feats.
Have not read one that included play offs.

 

[The90]

I think what really shines through in these stats is Matthews 2nd round dominance

So were you just not alive when Ovechkin was at his best? That's the only explanation I can come up with for this post.

Look, I'm a Leafs fan. Matthews is great. But you're really underestimating how big a threat Ovechkin was back then. He was doing stuff that Matthews is just incapable of doing. He wasn't just scoring off one timers. He was picking corners like Matthews does. He was also scoring a ton off the rush, using speed and creativity that we don't see from Matthews.

A young Ovechkin was truly the most complete goal scorer I've ever seen, there was nothing he couldn't do.

I like the highbrow comment about not watching Matthews, then describing how ovechkin scores in every way that Matthews also does lol

Nice work

 

[authentic]

So were you just not alive when Ovechkin was at his best? That's the only explanation I can come up with for this post.

Look, I'm a Leafs fan. Matthews is great. But you're really underestimating how big a threat Ovechkin was back then. He was doing stuff that Matthews is just incapable of doing. He wasn't just scoring off one timers. He was picking corners like Matthews does. He was also scoring a ton off the rush, using speed and creativity that we don't see from Matthews.

A young Ovechkin was truly the most complete goal scorer I've ever seen, there was nothing he couldn't do.

Speed and power sure, but if you don't see creativity from Matthews you're not watching enough

 

[WingsFan95]

People here arguing which season was more impressive from a goal scoring perspective and I still think it was Ovechkin considering team and era but what people SHOULD be arguing is how both players had teams that struggled to get out of the 2nd round. Why is that? Ovechkin was doing his part in scoring, a lot of Game 7 losses....

This is why guys like Lemieux come out so strong ahead, they won come playoff time.

 

[Spectra]

At last check he league in posts hit, including another one last night

A hit post is not even a shot on goal, hence can never be a goal if the post was not there. It is one of the oldest fallacies in sports; that a shot hitting the frame of the goal would be a goal if the frame wasn't there or somehow was transparent. It would not since it would be physically impossible ("whole puck/ball needs to be 100 percent inside of the goal").

A shot hitting the frame is very close, but the frame is physically incapable of "saving" anything. I almost get an aneurysm every time a commentator says "saved by the post" and I have to label said commentator an imbecile for not understanding basic physics.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

People here arguing which season was more impressive from a goal scoring perspective and I still think it was Ovechkin considering team and era but what people SHOULD be arguing is how both players had teams that struggled to get out of the 2nd round. Why is that? Ovechkin was doing his part in scoring, a lot of Game 7 losses....

This is why guys like Lemieux come out so strong ahead, they won come playoff time.

I have always said IMO Lemieux was the best goal scorer (having watched them all) but Lemieux only played in the playoffs once in his first six years. He won one round in his first 6 years.

 

[D Wakaluk]

I like the highbrow comment about not watching Matthews

I like the weird anger when anyone points out their booboo isn't the playoff beast the forced fanboy narrative wants him to be

 

[JukofYork]

Good on ya,
yep 13 (OV) is > 10 (Matthews)
The end.

Sarcasm emoji.

First of all the season isnt over.

Secondly. I am the only one who says The end.

Third. Wut?

Now this is the end

The end.

 

[TheStatican]

Time to settle this adjustment talk once and for all. Here's how ALL the best goal scoring seasons compare since TOI tracking began in 97-98.

When adjusting by TOI Matthews comes out far ahead of Ovechkin considering he only has 3:21 of PP ice time to work with while Ovechkin had 5:36 which added him immensely in scoring 22 powerplay goals. Now when we adjust the numbers based on Even Strength Power Play and Short Handed scoring levels Ovechkin does comes out on top, though Pavel Bure matched him on a per-game rate in 99-00. But when you combine the two factors that's where things get interesting...

Raw Totals

G​	GP​	Name​	Season​	ESG​	PPG​	SHG​	G/Gm​
64​	75​	Matthews​	23-24​	48​	16​	0​	0.853​
64​	82​	McDavid​	22-23​	39​	21​	4​	0.780​
61​	82​	Pastrnak​	22-23​	43​	18​	0​	0.744​
60​	73​	Matthews​	21-22​	44​	16​	0​	0.822​
60​	82​	Stamkos​	11-12​	48​	12​	0​	0.732​
65​	82​	Ovechkin​	07-08​	43​	22​	0​	0.793​
59​	82​	Bure​	00-01​	35​	19​	5​	0.720​
58​	74​	Bure​	99-00​	45​	11​	2​	0.784​

Adjusted By TOI
to Matthews per game rates of ES 16:51 PP 03:21 SH 0:45

​

​

​

Actual​

​

​

TOI​

​

​

Adjusted​

​

​

​

​

GP​

Name​

Season​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

Tot​

G/Gm​

75​

Matthews​

23-24​

48​

16​

0​

16:51​

03:21​

00:45​

48​

16​

0​

64​

0.853​

82​

McDavid​

22-23​

39​

21​

4​

17:11​

03:55​

01:16​

38.2​

18.0​

2.4​

58.6​

0.714​

82​

Pastrnak​

22-23​

43​

18​

0​

15:40​

03:50​

00:03​

46.2​

15.7​

0​

62.0​

0.756​

73​

Matthews​

21-22​

44​

16​

0​

17:27​

03:05​

00:03​

42.5​

17.4​

0​

59.9​

0.820​

82​

Stamkos​

11-12​

48​

12​

0​

17:39​

03:48​

00:33​

45.8​

10.6​

0​

56.4​

0.688​

82​

Ovechkin​

07-08​

43​

22​

0​

17:08​

05:36​

00:09​

42.3​

13.2​

0​

55.4​

0.676​

82​

Bure​

00-01​

35​

19​

5​

16:44​

04:52​

01:37​

35.2​

13.1​

2.3​

50.6​

0.618​

74​

Bure​

99-00​

45​

11​

2​

17:15​

04:21​

01:56​

44.0​

8.5​

0.8​

53.2​

0.719​

Adjusted by scoring levels
to 2023-24 per game rates of ES 2.36 PP 0.64 SH 0.09

​

​

​

Actual​

​

​

Rates​

​

​

Adjusted​

​

​

​

​

GP​

Player​

Season​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

Tot​

G/Gm​

75​

Matthews​

23-24​

48​

16​

0​

2.36​

0.64​

0.09​

48​

16​

0​

64​

0.853​

82​

McDavid​

22-23​

39​

21​

4​

2.40​

0.65​

0.10​

38.3​

20.4​

3.7​

62.4​

0.761​

82​

Pastrnak​

22-23​

43​

18​

0​

2.40​

0.65​

0.10​

42.3​

17.5​

0.0​

59.7​

0.728​

73​

Matthews​

21-22​

44​

16​

0​

2.43​

0.60​

0.08​

42.7​

17.1​

0.0​

59.8​

0.819​

82​

Stamkos​

11-12​

48​

12​

0​

2.01​

0.76​

0.10​

56.2​

10.0​

0.0​

66.2​

0.808​

82​

Ovechkin​

07-08​

43​

22​

0​

1.86​

0.76​

0.10​

54.4​

18.4​

0.0​

72.8​

0.888​

82​

Bure​

00-01​

35​

19​

5​

1.88​

0.76​

0.11​

43.8​

15.8​

4.1​

63.6​

0.776​

74​

Bure​

99-00​

45​

11​

2​

2.00​

0.65​

0.09​

53.0​

10.7​

1.9​

65.6​

0.887​

Adjusted by scoring rates AND ice time

Player​	Season​	ESG​	PPG​	SHG​	Tot​	G/Gm​
Matthews​	23-24​	48​	16​	0​	64​	0.853​
McDavid​	22-23​	37.6​	17.4​	2.2​	57.2​	0.698​
Pastrnak​	22-23​	45.5​	15.3​	0​	60.7​	0.741​
Matthews​	21-22​	41.2​	18.6​	0​	59.8​	0.819​
Stamkos​	11-12​	53.7​	8.8​	0​	62.5​	0.762​
Ovechkin​	07-08​	53.5​	11.0​	0​	64.5​	0.787​
Bure​	00-01​	44.1​	10.9​	1.9​	56.8​	0.693​
Bure​	99-00​	51.8​	8.3​	0.7​	60.8​	0.821​

When taking into consideration both scoring levels and ice time, Ovechkin is still on top, FOR NOW. All Matthews needs to surpassed him is a single goal and he has 6 games to do it. And as we see he's already substantially ahead on a per-game rate. Once/if he gets #66 it will be without a doubt the greatest goals scoring season since at least the early 90's.

 

[WingsFan95]

Time to settle this adjustment talk once and for all. Here's how ALL the best goal scoring seasons compare since TOI tracking began in 97-98.

When adjusting by TOI Matthews comes out far ahead of Ovechkin considering he only has 3:21 of PP ice time to work with while Ovechkin had 5:36 which added him immensely in scoring 22 powerplay goals. Now when we adjust the numbers based on Even Strength Power Play and Short Handed scoring levels Ovechkin does comes out on top, though Pavel Bure matched him on a per-game rate in 99-00. But when you combine the two factors that's where things get interesting...

Raw Totals

G​	GP​	Name​	Season​	ESG​	PPG​	SHG​	G/Gm​
64​	75​	Matthews​	23-24​	48​	16​	0​	0.853​
64​	82​	McDavid​	22-23​	39​	21​	4​	0.780​
61​	82​	Pastrnak​	22-23​	43​	18​	0​	0.744​
60​	73​	Matthews​	21-22​	44​	16​	0​	0.822​
60​	82​	Stamkos​	11-12​	48​	12​	0​	0.732​
65​	82​	Ovechkin​	07-08​	43​	22​	0​	0.793​
59​	82​	Bure​	00-01​	35​	19​	5​	0.720​
58​	74​	Bure​	99-00​	45​	11​	2​	0.784​

Adjusted By TOI
to Matthews per game rates of ES 16:51 PP 03:21 SH 0:45

​

​

​

Actual​

​

​

TOI​

​

​

Adjusted​

​

​

​

​

GP​

Name​

Season​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

Tot​

G/Gm​

75​

Matthews​

23-24​

48​

16​

0​

16:51​

03:21​

00:45​

48​

16​

0​

64​

0.853​

82​

McDavid​

22-23​

39​

21​

4​

17:11​

03:55​

01:16​

38.2​

18.0​

2.4​

58.6​

0.714​

82​

Pastrnak​

22-23​

43​

18​

0​

15:40​

03:50​

00:03​

46.2​

15.7​

0​

62.0​

0.756​

73​

Matthews​

21-22​

44​

16​

0​

17:27​

03:05​

00:03​

42.5​

17.4​

0​

59.9​

0.820​

82​

Stamkos​

11-12​

48​

12​

0​

17:39​

03:48​

00:33​

45.8​

10.6​

0​

56.4​

0.688​

82​

Ovechkin​

07-08​

43​

22​

0​

17:08​

05:36​

00:09​

42.3​

13.2​

0​

55.4​

0.676​

82​

Bure​

00-01​

35​

19​

5​

16:44​

04:52​

01:37​

35.2​

13.1​

2.3​

50.6​

0.618​

74​

Bure​

99-00​

45​

11​

2​

17:15​

04:21​

01:56​

44.0​

8.5​

0.8​

53.2​

0.719​

Adjusted by scoring levels
to 2023-24 per game rates of ES 2.36 PP 0.64 SH 0.09

​

​

​

Actual​

​

​

Rates​

​

​

Adjusted​

​

​

​

​

GP​

Player​

Season​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

ESG​

PPG​

SHG​

Tot​

G/Gm​

75​

Matthews​

23-24​

48​

16​

0​

2.36​

0.64​

0.09​

48​

16​

0​

64​

0.853​

82​

McDavid​

22-23​

39​

21​

4​

2.40​

0.65​

0.10​

38.3​

20.4​

3.7​

62.4​

0.761​

82​

Pastrnak​

22-23​

43​

18​

0​

2.40​

0.65​

0.10​

42.3​

17.5​

0.0​

59.7​

0.728​

73​

Matthews​

21-22​

44​

16​

0​

2.43​

0.60​

0.08​

42.7​

17.1​

0.0​

59.8​

0.819​

82​

Stamkos​

11-12​

48​

12​

0​

2.01​

0.76​

0.10​

56.2​

10.0​

0.0​

66.2​

0.808​

82​

Ovechkin​

07-08​

43​

22​

0​

1.86​

0.76​

0.10​

54.4​

18.4​

0.0​

72.8​

0.888​

82​

Bure​

00-01​

35​

19​

5​

1.88​

0.76​

0.11​

43.8​

15.8​

4.1​

63.6​

0.776​

74​

Bure​

99-00​

45​

11​

2​

2.00​

0.65​

0.09​

53.0​

10.7​

1.9​

65.6​

0.887​

Adjusted by scoring rates AND ice time

Player​	Season​	ESG​	PPG​	SHG​	Tot​	G/Gm​
Matthews​	23-24​	48​	16​	0​	64​	0.853​
McDavid​	22-23​	37.6​	17.4​	2.2​	57.2​	0.698​
Pastrnak​	22-23​	45.5​	15.3​	0​	60.7​	0.741​
Matthews​	21-22​	41.2​	18.6​	0​	59.8​	0.819​
Stamkos​	11-12​	53.7​	8.8​	0​	62.5​	0.762​
Ovechkin​	07-08​	53.5​	11.0​	0​	64.5​	0.787​
Bure​	00-01​	44.1​	10.9​	1.9​	56.8​	0.693​
Bure​	99-00​	51.8​	8.3​	0.7​	60.8​	0.821​

When taking into consideration both scoring levels and ice time, Ovechkin is still on top, FOR NOW. All Matthews needs to surpassed him is a single goal and he has 6 games to do it. And as we see he's already substantially ahead on a per-game rate. Once/if he gets #66 it will be without a doubt the greatest goals scoring season since at least the early 90's.

Great breakdown but stats are stats. It's why as much as I revere Wilt Chamberlain there are reasons he only won 2 chips and not ONLY because he played on lesser teams (two Finals he absolutely should have won and frankly choked up).

The THREAT that was Ovechkin in multiple seasons I just haven't seen from Matthews in a clearly higher scoring era. The Bure comparisons are apt and say what you will he also strikes me as more dangerous than Matthews. It's the whole argument with McDavid, they are arguably better overall players but not greater snipers. Nevermind if we include Selanne and Hull in this at their best.


Now when it looked like Matthews would eclipse 70? That's a different story. I am very much rooting for him to do that. 66 or 67 or 68 doesn't do much to push the needle for me. 69 I'll give him.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

A hit post is not even a shot on goal, hence can never be a goal if the post was not there. It is one of the oldest fallacies in sports; that a shot hitting the frame of the goal would be a goal if the frame wasn't there or somehow was transparent. It would not since it would be physically impossible ("whole puck/ball needs to be 100 percent inside of the goal").

A shot hitting the frame is very close, but the frame is physically incapable of "saving" anything. I almost get an aneurysm every time a commentator says "saved by the post" and I have to label said commentator an imbecile for not understanding basic physics.

The last goal Matthews scored wasn't a shot on goal, it was a pass that hit a skate and went in.

 

[6ix]

I've read a thousand posts on Matthews and his great scoring skills and feats.
Have not read one that included play offs.

You must of skipped the Tampa leafs game threads last year then Paul from Dundas

 

[Regal]

The only players with more goals drafted since 2007 are Patrick Kane, Jamie Benn, Stamkos and Tavares. Matthews was drafted in 2016. His goal scoring has been nuts. Outside Tavares and Benn, most of the guys active in the league who have more goals than him are first ballot hall of famers in their mid to late 30s like Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Kane, Kopitar, and Stamkos. or guys who entered the league full decade or more before him like Marchand, Pavelski, Parise, and Jeff Carter.

Barring injury, he should move into the top 100 for career goals next year. It’s pretty nutty

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Barring injury, he should move into the top 100 for career goals next year. It’s pretty nutty

He's not there yet? I figured he was especially with 2 60+ goal seasons.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Baring injury he has a legitimate chance of becoming the franchise leader in goals next season and if he does he will have done it in at least 337 fewer games than it took Mats Sundin who currently holds the record at 420.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I hope he gets 70 just because it’s so rare.