Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think their point went over your head. Not saying he wouldn’t win by as much just that everyone would lose a percentage .
Just like we’re seeing McDavids 153 is great but not like if he did it the Benn Art Ross year

I think my point went over your head. People are in here claiming whatever Matthews accomplishes this season (let's wait to see what he accomplishes BTW, both Reinhart and Hyman are easily within striking distance) is diminished because goals are easy now. My point is: then why not everyone else? Weird in the time of easy goal scoring eh?

 

[34]

58 goals in 68 games.

He likely finishes the season with 65.


3 Rockets in the last 4 seasons. It would have been 4 straight if he was not injured last season and had surgery.

 

[Strangle]

I'm clearly talking about goals, not assists. I'm told in this thread goals are super-easy now. How can so many of the best players in the league (some probably the best in history) be behind Auston Matthews by 15 to 30 (!) goals right now if it's all about goalie equipment? Gimme a freaking break.

The era adjusting crowd only adjusts the worst candidates for adjustment, the outliers

They aren’t interested in adjusting 20 goal scorers with other 20 goal scorers, they only look to pump Crosby and Ovechkin and pull down the Gretzky’s and McDavid’s and Matthews

(I imagine this is because they’re younger and grew up watching Crosby and Ovechkin and can’t imagine that they aren’t ’the Best’ the NHL has ever seen, because for their childhood, those were ‘the best’ they’d actually seen.)

I’m sure there are people who think McDavid is a product of his ‘era’ and there is no talent gap between him and players 15 years ago.

But they can’t wrap their head around hasek being a product of his ‘era’ and Ken Dryden putting up similar numbers in a much higher scoring era.

Ken Dryden is much better than hasek after adjusting for era.

But what they’ll say is that era adjusting is broken for goalies, so scoring being easier and goalies outperforming that don’t count.

Scoring being ‘harder’ doesn’t adjust a goalies save percentage to normalize it, for some reason.

Oh I know the reason, the whole thing is total bullshit

 

[Golden_Jet]

Have you seen goalie pads these days that are completely rectangular with cheaters at the top? I dismiss entirely the argument goalie equipment is less effective today. Entirely. Look at the friggin' pads when they put them on the ice to cover the 5-hole. It's like a border wall. That didn't exist 20 years ago. At all.

Obviously you haven’t paid attention to the changes made over the last decade,

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The era adjusting crowd only adjusts the worst candidates for adjustment, the outliers

They aren’t interested in adjusting 20 goal scorers with other 20 goal scorers, they only look to pump Crosby and Ovechkin and pull down the Gretzky’s and McDavid’s and Matthews

(I imagine this is because they’re younger and grew up watching Crosby and Ovechkin and can’t imagine that they aren’t ’the Best’ the NHL has ever seen, because for their childhood, those were ‘the best’ they’d actually seen.)

I’m sure there are people who think McDavid is a product of his ‘era’ and there is no talent gap between him and players 15 years ago.

But they can’t wrap their head around hasek being a product of his ‘era’ and Ken Dryden putting up similar numbers in a much higher scoring era.

Ken Dryden is much better than hasek after adjusting for era.

But what they’ll say is that era adjusting is broken for goalies, so scoring being easier and goalies outperforming that don’t count.

Scoring being ‘harder’ doesn’t adjust a goalies save percentage to normalize it, for some reason.

Oh I know the reason, the whole thing is total bullshit

You're the one doing backflips, not me. Auston Matthews has 9 goals more than the next guy (18.3% more). Fact and not debatable. If it was all about an easier scoring period, it would be a closer race. The only debatable part is why you people are in here even making these arguments. My guess is you're Leaf haters but of course I can't say that's a fact or not debatable. Too bad we can't just all enjoy great hockey players. I like every great player, it's why I watch the game.

Obviously you haven’t paid attention to the changes made over the last decade,

Yeah, it's a paradigm change. (picture is last year BTW)

 

[keglu]

The era adjusting crowd only adjusts the worst candidates for adjustment, the outliers

They aren’t interested in adjusting 20 goal scorers with other 20 goal scorers, they only look to pump Crosby and Ovechkin and pull down the Gretzky’s and McDavid’s and Matthews

Gaudreau and Huberdeau 115p season 2 years ago is higher than carrer highs of Malkin, Ovi, Kane
Are they also better?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah, it's a paradigm change.

View attachment 840879

lol, deny all you want

The grumbling was immediate. The latest volley in a storied battle between goalies in search of any competitive edge and a league mindful of the fan-appeal of scoring came prior to the 2018-19 season, when the NHL moved to restrict the size of chest, shoulder and arm protection in goalie gear.

Goalies feared more than bruised feelings.

“You get stingers and bruises and stuff like that,” Vegas Golden Knights netminder Marc-Andre Fleury, who has taken to wearing an extra undershirt, told The Washington Post.

“You start to be afraid of pucks, actually, especially in the practices,” Blue Jackets goalie Sergei Bobrovsky told The Columbus Dispatch.

Pads were narrowed, shortened, then shortened again. Both glove and blocker had their total surface area reduced. Jerseys were required to follow the form of the goaltender’s body. The height of the stick’s paddle was trimmed. Pants were narrowed.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

lol, deny all you want

The grumbling was immediate. The latest volley in a storied battle between goalies in search of any competitive edge and a league mindful of the fan-appeal of scoring came prior to the 2018-19 season, when the NHL moved to restrict the size of chest, shoulder and arm protection in goalie gear.

Goalies feared more than bruised feelings.

“You get stingers and bruises and stuff like that,” Vegas Golden Knights netminder Marc-Andre Fleury, who has taken to wearing an extra undershirt, told The Washington Post.

“You start to be afraid of pucks, actually, especially in the practices,” Blue Jackets goalie Sergei Bobrovsky told The Columbus Dispatch.

Pads were narrowed, shortened, then shortened again. Both glove and blocker had their total surface area reduced. Jerseys were required to follow the form of the goaltender’s body. The height of the stick’s paddle was trimmed. Pants were narrowed.

Deny what exactly? Did pads get narrowed? Sure. Did pads get taller with ever increasing cheaters? Yep. Did chest protectors (that include arm protectors) shrink? Nope.

 

[Strangle]

You're the one doing backflips, not me. Auston Matthews has 9 goals more than the next guy (18.3% more). Fact and not debatable. If it was all about an easier scoring period, it would be a closer race. The only debatable part is why you people are in here even making these arguments. My guess is you're Leaf haters but of course I can't say that's a fact or not debatable. Too bad we can't just all enjoy great hockey players. I like every great player, it's why I watch the game.



Yeah, it's a paradigm change. (picture is last year BTW)

View attachment 840879

Naw, I’m a leaf fan and I think Matthews has proven he is just as good, if not better (likely right now by the stats) than Ovechkin.

I hate adjusted stats and I hate arguments based around adjusted stats. Adjusting is the only argument people have against Matthews and it’s just a garbage argument

Gaudreau and Huberdeau 115p season 2 years ago is higher than carrer highs of Malkin, Ovi, Kane
Are they also better?

They scored more points, once. So for those seasons, yes they peaked higher.

Longevity, cups, awards, etc are a different thing. But they have higher scoring seasons than the ones you mentioned.

Pretty cut and dry.

Only thing stopping those players from scoring 120 points was the other team

 

[nhlfan9191]

Naw, I’m a leaf fan and I think Matthews has proven he is just as good, if not better (likely right now by the stats) than Ovechkin.

I hate adjusted stats and I hate arguments based around adjusted stats. Adjusting is the only argument people have against Matthews and it’s just a garbage argument



They scored more points, once. So for those seasons, yes they peaked higher.

Longevity, cups, awards, etc are a different thing. But they have higher scoring seasons than the ones you mentioned.

Pretty cut and dry.

Only thing stopping those players from scoring 120 points was the other team

Are you really serious with this argument man? Or is this a self mechanism to try and protect Matthews at all cost? Inflation in scoring is a real thing. It’s gone up and down drastically several times throughout NHL history and everytime it’s gone up, it’s been due to something causing something to make scoring goals “easier.” And it doesn’t just affect goal scorers like Matthews, it effects every every players points totals. Myself and other people have tried to explain that to you nicely but it’s in one ear and out the other.

 

[keglu]

They scored more points, once. So for those seasons, yes they peaked higher.

Longevity, cups, awards, etc are a different thing. But they have higher scoring seasons than the ones you mentioned.

Pretty cut and dry.

Only thing stopping those players from scoring 120 points was the other team

Huberdeau and Gaudreau peaked higher than Malkin and Ovi.
And Stamkos was also at his peak 2 seasons ago.
I think we are done here

 

[CN8]

I think my point went over your head. People are in here claiming whatever Matthews accomplishes this season (let's wait to see what he accomplishes BTW, both Reinhart and Hyman are easily within striking distance) is diminished because goals are easy now. My point is: then why not everyone else? Weird in the time of easy goal scoring eh?

Easy and easier. 2 different words
And I’m definitely not diminishing what he’s doing. I do understand some are

 

[cupface52]

The Leafs also get 0 PPs and Austin Matthews has significant less PP time than Ovechkin had in his prime.

For example

Matthews has 15 PPG in 3:18PPTOI/GP this season
Ovechkin had 22 PPG in 5:37PPTOI/GP in 07-08 when he scored his career high 65

Pretty much negates the whole higher scoring argument

The Avs over the last 5 years have the most PPs, roughly 20% more than the Leafs. If the Leafs had just as many PPs as the Avs, and Matthews scored at the same rate he has, he'd have a whopping 13 PPG extra over 5 seasons, or 2.6 goals per season.

You can't extrapolate PP time to extra goals either. A lot of those minutes are not in prime PP time, ie, last 30-45 seconds with the second unit.

You aren’t able to quantify a level of difficulty on goals scored in 2008 compared to 2024

It’s just a nebulous ‘less goals were scored equals more difficult goal scoring’ it doesn’t make any logical sense.

The easier explanation is just that the players scored less goals in 2008. There are a lot of factors to consider and one that I never hear about is talent.

That’s because posters who make your argument assume talent level is flat over time in the NHL, they don’t account for (or believe in) talent disparity in the league in different eras.

It’s simple, players today and players prior to the Ovechkin/crosby era are just better, there’s more talented offensive players than there was then.

Same with the 80’s and early 90’s. Dead puck era sucked and having McDavid/matthews/etc/etc in the league then would have raised league scoring.

If you put the top 50 players today in the same environment as it was in 2008, they would score more

Could just as well say goaltending sucks now and that's why scoring is higher.

Talent is so much better now that a 36 year old manages to come 4th in goal scoring, and 3rd in gpg. A 34 year old just recently won the Rocket. You would think if this 34 year old is able to outclass today's "superior talent", that 34 year old should have been winning the rocket by 20+ goals on a yearly basis in his mid 20s against lesser talent.

Looking at the 92-93 season, it looks like there was a massive influx of talent for a single year and all that talent disappeared the following year. That is, if you want to follow your logic.

 

[Drytoast]

Deny what exactly? Did pads get narrowed? Sure. Did pads get taller with ever increasing cheaters? Yep. Did chest protectors (that include arm protectors) shrink? Nope.

View attachment 840885

Always laugh at this pic

 

[Shrimper]

If Matthews has another season next year like this, do we start thinking 800+

 

[FrozenKing18]

Always laugh at this pic
View attachment 840910

lmao what the hell, why is the dude so huge

 

[uncleben]

A few things going on here

1) Vasi's pads are simply oversized
2) Little bit of forced perspective
3) Vasi is just a big dude those hands...

Take a big dude, put him in big equipment and take a photo that makes him look big

 

[Golden_Jet]

Deny what exactly? Did pads get narrowed? Sure. Did pads get taller with ever increasing cheaters? Yep. Did chest protectors (that include arm protectors) shrink? Nope.

View attachment 840885

False, all those shrunk , height twice, as well as cheaters, blockers, gloves,

the NHL reduced the height of leg pads by an average of two inches starting in 2013-14, then reduced a second time a few years later.

Then 2018
Pads shrunk from 12” wide to 11” wide.

• Blockers were reduced from 16 inches to 15 inches.
• Catching gloves could have a circumference not greater than 45 inches (the previous limit was 48).
• Leg pads were reduced to a height not greater than 45 percent of the distance from the center of the goalie’s knee to his pelvis.
• 
  
  The NHL has even forced change during a season, as when it ordered goalies to wear uniformly slimmer pants starting in February 2018.
  
  The current crop of equipment adjustments dictates that chest and arm protection must be anatomically proportional. All arm and shoulder pads were reduced in height by approximately an inch.

the way they wear their chest protectors is quite different - literally at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of fit. Carey wears his pretty snug, with any over-hanging bits tucked into his pants. A lot of players prefer this because it’s easier to move around and make more athletic saves. Vasy, on the other hand, wears his chesty as loose as possible - this essentially creates an air pocket between his actual chest and the equipment, the idea is that there is less rebound when picks hit him in the chest.

I think he also flares out the outer layers of the chesty, again creating more space between his jersey and the chesty, and the chesty and himself. While it may be legal size, he’s definitely doing everything he can to make it appear bigger

 

[Maple Leaf]

a true national treasure but bettman does not know how to market too bad

 

[kevsh]

Matthews may have the argument as the better pure scorer at this point

Remove "may" and "at this point" and you're correct.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Remove "may" and "at this point" and you're correct.

Also remove the word "arguement" he simply is.

 

[Drytoast]

A few things going on here

1) Vasi's pads are simply oversized
2) Little bit of forced perspective
3) Vasi is just a big dude those hands...

Take a big dude, put him in big equipment and take a photo that makes him look big

But Price is suppose to be in the same size pads, roughly speaking. The force perspective isn't that great, but I do agree, Vasi is a bigger man.

But those pads ARE oversized. By lots.

 

[authentic]

Always laugh at this pic
View attachment 840910

Wait so not only did Tampa circumvent the cap they were exempt from goalie equipment reduction?

 

[pekka55]

58 goals in 68 games.

He likely finishes the season with 65.


3 Rockets in the last 4 seasons. It would have been 4 straight if he was not injured last season and had surgery.

Laine is still better.

 

[cupface52]

Avalanche could use more of a sniper than a 1 way offensive playmaker. Your take is awful.

Edit: I see you are a Montreal fan, now I understand why you don't understand winning a cup in a league with more than 6 teams.

Playoffs since '16-17

Matthews 50gp 22g 44p .88ppg 0
McDavid 49gp 29g 75p 1.53ppg +16