Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[Martin Skoula]

I debated whether I wanted to queue up a post about how Matthews is apparently the game's greatest goal-scorer ever - like, evar - until he runs into his playoff krypyonite: a Vezina Trophy winner. And all he needs to be more successful in the playoffs is not raise his game like the all-time great he supposedly is and overcome even one of those Vezina winners: he just needs to play more shitty goalies / goalies who don't play really well for a spurt.

But I have better things to do on a Sunday than kick that hornet's nest. Plus, I think someone already alluded to it earlier.


Me: "If someone wants to claim [item described above], show me the data to prove it."
You: "Oh, you're claiming [item described above]? Why don't you go pull the data."




For all those goals he's scored, his shoes are hideous.

Him doing better in the playoffs is going goal per game or just under every series, he’s been scoring 4-5 in 7 on said Vezina goalies more often than not. The gap between him and “playoff performers” is somehow getting playoff Marner and the 3rd wheel of the week to score on good goalies which is easier said than done.

 

[34]

Late to join this one. Have we downplayed his accomplishment and started to attack him personally yet?

Of coarse.

Yeah I mean in the traditional sense. 50 goals in first 50 games.

Traditional? Matthews does nothing traditional. Best goal scorer in the NHL.

51 goals in 50 games. Been there done that. Next…

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I understood it and suspect you won't like some of the results.

I'm pretty sure you didn't understand it, though.

You'll also have to come to grips with the fact that sometimes the individual performs more than adequately yet team result doesn't happen.

That's not the point I wasn't referring to, and not the point you seemed to have taken offense with.

Thats doesn't mean there aren't times the individual doesn't perform as desired either.

That's also not the point I wasn't referring to, and not the point you seemed to have taken offense with.

Here, let me recap [the part in bold is pretty important here] and maybe it will sink in:

* You: He's 40th all-time in goals per game in the playoffs, he just keeps playing against really elite goaltenders.
* D Wakaluk: Oh, so he's being dominated by elite goaltending?
* You: He keeps doing this against elite goaltending, not just average.
* Me: I have no clue if he performs better vs. elite goaltending when compared to other elite players; if someone wants to argue that, show me proof.
* You: If you are presuming he performs better against top goalies than others, fill your boots and query the data.

 

[DeletedUser539]

Best goal scorer in the NHL he will go down as one of the best of all time

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Him doing better in the playoffs is going goal per game or just under every series, he’s been scoring 4-5 in 7 on said Vezina goalies more often than not. The gap between him and “playoff performers” is somehow getting playoff Marner and the 3rd wheel of the week to score on good goalies which is easier said than done.

The latter part is valid, presuming we're limiting this to the other Leafs players. The first part assumes "scoring 4-5 in 7 on said Vezina goalies" is exceptionally great with respect to other elite players. [See argument above that someone else has confused at the moment.] I'm also going to nitpick it, because on a per-7 game basis for his playoff career he averages 3.08 goals, not 4-5.

I mean, I could really nitpick the hell out of this and ask are we treating all Vezina winners equal? Are we only limiting this to the goaleis won win a Vezina in the year they play the Leafs? but that gets way off into the woods on something vastly uninteresting, and I'm more interested in this "logic" about what Matthews will or won't do in getting to 893 based on whatever assumption is getting lobbed at the moment.

 

[robertocarlos]

He needs 2 more hat-tricks in a row and then he can coast with a goal a game to finish with 82 goals.

 

[Duke749]

Seriously!!?!? Again!?!?

 

[mkatcherin00]

I would argue that it would also be helpful if your team wouldn't randomly be put down by 2 men with phantom calls in an elimination game you're winning.

Or that it would be helpful if goals your team scores in elimination games weren't magically erased for minor infractions.

Or that, in that same vein, when a team scores to eliminate your team from the playoffs, that it doesn't happen directly off a player holding the stick of your defender rendering him useless.

What he is doing is amazing, but I think people are sick of regular season stuff. He has been so disappointing and ghosting in so many important playoff games. That actually wears on people and these regular season things mean less in the grand scheme of things. Tarnish it a tad.

Like you have a guy who scores so much and then goes ghost in the playoffs when the games matter. 22 goals in 50 some playoff games? He basically DE-ELEVATES in the playoffs.

 

[authentic]

Reinhart is really f***in good

Reinhart also is having a lot of luck on top of a stellar season, has more powerplay goals than a few entire teams and is shooting 27%, which will not even remotely hold up going forward. Meanwhile Matthews is just chugging along having played 3 less games with a 9 goal lead and also leads the NHL in posts hit with 14.

Yeah I mean in the traditional sense. 50 goals in first 50 games.

Well it wasn’t over two seasons though, it was 50 straight games in his Hart season where he scored 51 goals. With 34 in his last 31 he might do it again.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Matthews is a beauty. let's see him top Ovechkins 65

 

[v00d00daddy]

Late to join this one. Have we downplayed his accomplishment and started to attack him personally yet?

Not yet. Almost there. 75 goal regular season pace has already been replaced by “he’s gotta be amazing in the playoffs”

Once he scores well these playoffs we can jump to personal attacks.

After those? Who knows? lol

 

[The90]

Reinhart is really f***in good

For sure he is. But he’s also probably having his career year. Which is his point.

 

[T REX]

Pretty amazing from Matthews.

Unreal.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Matthews will make a run at the goal record after Ovi.

 

[Optimist]

Can you imagine how impressive this would be if the object of the game of hockey was to score goals?

 

[pcruz]

Not yet. Almost there. 75 goal regular season pace has already been replaced by “he’s gotta be amazing in the playoffs”

Once he scores well these playoffs we can jump to personal attacks.

After those? Who knows? lol

Well


He's a washed up 40 goal scorer don't you know.

I mean, just because he scored 60 once doesn't mean he is a 60 goal scorer, you gotta do it more than once to get that credit.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The latter part is valid, presuming we're limiting this to the other Leafs players. The first part assumes "scoring 4-5 in 7 on said Vezina goalies" is exceptionally great with respect to other elite players. [See argument above that someone else has confused at the moment.] I'm also going to nitpick it, because on a per-7 game basis for his playoff career he averages 3.08 goals, not 4-5.

I mean, I could really nitpick the hell out of this and ask are we treating all Vezina winners equal? Are we only limiting this to the goaleis won win a Vezina in the year they play the Leafs? but that gets way off into the woods on something vastly uninteresting, and I'm more interested in this "logic" about what Matthews will or won't do in getting to 893 based on whatever assumption is getting lobbed at the moment.

I get that this is really emotional for you but it’s not that serious lol.

Half his series he scored 4 or 5, the others are a 5 game play-in against Columbus, 2 series he was played with wrist injuries neutering his shot, and the Florida series where he just wasn’t good enough to beat Bob. 1 in 7 are clearly the outlier years, I don’t see what use it is to average a small sample size.

I don’t really care what the rest of you are arguing about, the point is for the people clamouring that he needs to step up the goal scoring in the playoffs, you’re basically asking for a 70 goal pace in the playoffs when healthy just to consider the guy an adequate playoff performer. The Vezina thing isn’t a sticking point, I don’t care which goalies you’re facing, pushing GPG in the playoffs is an absurd expectation.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I get that this is really emotional for you

I get you have no idea how I really feel, so maybe you should ask me about that first before pretending to know and running off with that assumption and making a post that makes you look foolish with respect to what I really do think.

Half his series he scored 4 or 5, the others are a 5 game play-in against Columbus, 2 series he was played with wrist injuries neutering his shot, and the Florida series where he just wasn’t good enough to beat Bob. 1 in 7 are clearly the outlier years, I don’t see what use it is to average a small sample size.

In other words,

* If the results don't match the average from the small sample size, and it's unfavorable, there must be an excuse as to why and everyone should ignore the bad stuff.
* If results don't match the average from the small sample size, and it's favorable, that's OK and we should treat the good stuff as totally representative of future expectations.
* It's futile to use the average of a small sample size, so instead we should ... use the average of a small sample size to draw conclusions and infer accordingly.

I don’t really care what the rest of you are arguing about, the point is for the people clamouring that he needs to step up the goal scoring in the playoffs, you’re basically asking for a 70 goal pace in the playoffs when healthy just to consider the guy an adequate playoff performer. The Vezina thing isn’t a sticking point, I don’t care which goalies you’re facing, pushing GPG in the playoffs is an absurd expectation.

Again, you should ask me what I expect instead of assuming you know what I expect and then racing off with outlandish claims.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I get you have no idea how I really feel, so maybe you should ask me about that first before pretending to know and running off with that assumption and making a post that makes you look foolish with respect to what I really do think.


In other words,

* If the results don't match the average from the small sample size, and it's unfavorable, there must be an excuse as to why and everyone should ignore the bad stuff.
* If results don't match the average from the small sample size, and it's favorable, that's OK and we should treat the good stuff as totally representative of future expectations.
* It's futile to use the average of a small sample size, so instead we should ... use the average of a small sample size to draw conclusions and infer accordingly.


Again, you should ask me what I expect instead of assuming you know what I expect and then racing off with outlandish claims.

No if a volume shooter has a disclosed wrist injury, is visibly unable to get power on shots, and then has an offseason surgery for that wrist, probably we can assume that this isn’t relevant to future healthy performance. If you expect he’s gonna have wrist surgery every season then yeah you should probably expect more 1 in 7s.

 

[drktmplr12]

I get that this is really emotional for you but it’s not that serious lol.

Half his series he scored 4 or 5, the others are a 5 game play-in against Columbus, 2 series he was played with wrist injuries neutering his shot, and the Florida series where he just wasn’t good enough to beat Bob. 1 in 7 are clearly the outlier years, I don’t see what use it is to average a small sample size.

I don’t really care what the rest of you are arguing about, the point is for the people clamouring that he needs to step up the goal scoring in the playoffs, you’re basically asking for a 70 goal pace in the playoffs when healthy just to consider the guy an adequate playoff performer. The Vezina thing isn’t a sticking point, I don’t care which goalies you’re facing, pushing GPG in the playoffs is an absurd expectation.

If you aren't scoring goals, aren't getting assists, and don't play PK... What are you doing then?

 

[Schennanigans]

If he scores 5 the next game hf gonna crash and burn.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Was at the Leafs Colorado game 2 years ago where Leafs won 8-3 or something, Matthews hatty, my wife almost threw my player worn playoff hat off my head.

Yeah I didn't even watch it with the audio earlier.

"Why'd you do that? It's not your f'n hat!"

Fat kid "he told me to do it"

Man, I'm getting old. But for real how does that fat ass kid decide it's cool to throw that hat on the ice and it's not even a hockey hat in any way. That could be the real life Indiana Jones and he just threw his f***ing hat away.

Not cool. I hope he got it back if it was special to him.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Im a police officer and he could actually be charged with theft or destruction of property. That old man should have filed charges.

He probably wouldn't want the hassle, and would probably say you have better shit to do than charge some fat kid for throwing my hat on the ice..............

But thank you for your service.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Late to join this one. Have we downplayed his accomplishment and started to attack him personally yet?

"show me what he can do in the playoffs and then I'll maybe be impressed" that type of thing.

 

[Straight Fire]

If he scores 5 the next game hf gonna crash and burn.

Heck, even 2 or 3