Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[justashadowof]

Aside from keeping those 4 players, 3/4 of whom this board has wanted him to trade away, he has built the other 80% of the team.

What do the musings of individuals on an internet have to do with the topic of what exactly has the current GM done other than retain the elite talent he inherited?

 

[hotpaws]

So you fault him for not winning in the playoffs with the same players he inherited but clearly think they are amazing players, not following, mind explaining?

Also, not sure you know what the word "nothing" means.

I fault him for wasting 11m on an overpaid/overhyped C who we didn't need which has prevented the team from surrounding what i consider a core that is more than good enough to win a cup with quality support players to help them lead us to that accomplishment.

 

[notbias]

I fault him for wasting 11m on an overpaid/overhyped C who we didn't need which has prevented the team from surrounding what i consider a core that is more than good enough to win a cup with quality support players to help them lead us to that accomplishment.

Your player evaluation is terrible if you think we don't have quality support.

What series would we have won if Tavares was replaced with some average players equaling 11m?

Sign a few players in the same free agency window that Tavares was signed in, and show me the better team.

 

[Leaf Fans]

take away Mathews /Marner/Nylander/Rielly which he inherited what has he built ?

They could have been taken away, but Dubas re-signed them, so he built the core plus the players that surround the core. So, the whole team.

 

[Morbo]

For me the central positive thing Dubas did was bring in Brodie and Muzzin, who turned the defence around completely. Not too many Leaf GMs have build a blueline that could really defend. you'd have to go back to the Burns era for the last time before now. that's 30 years ago.

his other results on an individual per move basis have been mixed. a few good, some mediocre, some terrible.

There can be no doubt the team has underachieved though.

And the GM ultimately pays the price for that if it doesn't change.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If I had a nickel....

You would be 5¢ closer to 1$.

 

[barilko05]

I fault him for wasting 11m on an overpaid/overhyped C who we didn't need which has prevented the team from surrounding what i consider a core that is more than good enough to win a cup with quality support players to help them lead us to that accomplishment.

I'm gonna guess that if we DIDN'T sign him, you would have been the first one in here bleating about management not spending the money to improve the team, FA's never want to play here because the press is too mean, taxes, blah blah blah. He wasn't a 35 yr old final contract vet looking for a last kick at the can (cough..."MARLEAU"...cough). He was the PREMIUM FA available at the time, and there were lots of other teams willing to throw even MORE money at him. He chose us. And yeah, maybe we paid him a mil or two more than he might have been worth. But at the time, our 2nd line centre was an immature kid who cost us TWO playoff series with his bad decisions. We weren't going forward with that, and I'm glad we didn't. Yeah...Kadri finally figured it out...4 years later! I'll take the expensive, mature, proven team leader over the selfish jerk 10/10, thank you very much.

 

[Racer88]

To me it comes down to how the team plays, not how far they go.

Like if this team plays like garbage and scrapes by an injury riddled wildcard in round one and then gets blown out in the second round is that a successful season because they "won a round"? Same goes the other way, if they put up a good effort against a top contender I don't think you move on because of an arbitrary threshold.

I get the fan sentiment. I'll cheer a win and be pissed at a loss regardless of how it happens but I'm a fan not the GM. It's not my job to worry about the long-term management of the team.

The time for moral victories is long past it now win or move on from Dubas and Shanny

I'm gonna guess that if we DIDN'T sign him, you would have been the first one in here bleating about management not spending the money to improve the team, FA's never want to play here because the press is too mean, taxes, blah blah blah. He wasn't a 35 yr old final contract vet looking for a last kick at the can (cough..."MARLEAU"...cough). He was the PREMIUM FA available at the time, and there were lots of other teams willing to throw even MORE money at him. He chose us. And yeah, maybe we paid him a mil or two more than he might have been worth. But at the time, our 2nd line centre was an immature kid who cost us TWO playoff series with his bad decisions. We weren't going forward with that, and I'm glad we didn't. Yeah...Kadri finally figured it out...4 years later! I'll take the expensive, mature, proven team leader over the selfish jerk 10/10, thank you very much.

That all sounds great but we didn’t go any further with the expensive, mature, player. Maybe the 11 million would have been better spent improving other areas like goal tending or defence

 

[notbias]

The time for moral victories is long past it now win or move on from Dubas and Shanny

Wouldn't you move on from the players who can't get it done? They've been here longer.

Rielly/Nylander/Marner/Matthews, start there?

Or is the new GM cleaning house?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

One thing about the “Dubas inherited his core” narrative is that he had a pretty big role in the organization during the acquisition of half of them if the core as we describe it is Rielly, Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. He also had a hand in player development since he was in charge of the Marlies, which under his stewardship saw the development of now full time Leafs with Liljegren, Engvall, and Holl. And a few others that are now on other NHL teams with Hyman, Kapanen, and Dermott.

 

[hotpaws]

Your player evaluation is terrible if you think we don't have quality support.

What series would we have won if Tavares was replaced with some average players equaling 11m?

Sign a few players in the same free agency window that Tavares was signed in, and show me the better team.

every year i hear how great our support players are until we get knocked early and then that off season it's omg our support players are so much better this year than last year , lol

there were many quality/solid players we could have acquired/retained with his cap space and you'd think if JT was such a irreplaceable player like you believe he'd have helped us at east win a few rds since he's been here

 

[hotpaws]

I'm gonna guess that if we DIDN'T sign him, you would have been the first one in here bleating about management not spending the money to improve the team, FA's never want to play here because the press is too mean, taxes, blah blah blah. He wasn't a 35 yr old final contract vet looking for a last kick at the can (cough..."MARLEAU"...cough). He was the PREMIUM FA available at the time, and there were lots of other teams willing to throw even MORE money at him. He chose us. And yeah, maybe we paid him a mil or two more than he might have been worth. But at the time, our 2nd line centre was an immature kid who cost us TWO playoff series with his bad decisions. We weren't going forward with that, and I'm glad we didn't. Yeah...Kadri finally figured it out...4 years later! I'll take the expensive, mature, proven team leader over the selfish jerk 10/10, thank you very much.

you can go back and see my thoughts on JT way before we signed him if you like and there the same as i have now

the only thing JT has proven as a leader is he can't lead a team anywhere and he isn't the leader on this team even though he wears the C

 

[hotpaws]

One thing about the “Dubas inherited his core” narrative is that he had a pretty big role in the organization during the acquisition of half of them if the core as we describe it is Rielly, Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. He also had a hand in player development since he was in charge of the Marlies, which under his stewardship saw the development of now full time Leafs with Liljegren, Engvall, and Holl. And a few others that are now on other NHL teams with Hyman, Kapanen, and Dermott.

funny how the GM's that were here when we drafted Mathews/Marner/Nylander weren't given any credit for drafting them since they were no brainer picks but Dubas as agm gets praised . lol

 

[notbias]

every year i hear how great our support players are until we get knocked early and then that off season it's omg our support players are so much better this year than last year , lol

there were many quality/solid players we could have acquired/retained with his cap space and you'd think if JT was such a irreplaceable player like you believe he'd have helped us at east win a few rds since he's been here

You said absolutely nothing here.

 

[hotpaws]

You said absolutely nothing here.

really ? if i pulled up your posts from last off season and the one before your saying you weren't on here spewing how great our depth is ?

and you'd really have to be in denial to believe we couldn't have spent JT's cap hit better considering the results we've had since he came here

 

[All Mod Cons]

One thing about the “Dubas inherited his core” narrative is that he had a pretty big role in the organization during the acquisition of half of them if the core as we describe it is Rielly, Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. He also had a hand in player development since he was in charge of the Marlies, which under his stewardship saw the development of now full time Leafs with Liljegren, Engvall, and Holl. And a few others that are now on other NHL teams with Hyman, Kapanen, and Dermott.

Yeah it's really hard to know when Dubas was here for draft picks. He was here for Marner, but dissappeared by the time we drafted Bracco.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

funny how the GM's that were here when we drafted Mathews/Marner/Nylander weren't given any credit for drafting them since they were no brainer picks but Dubas as agm gets praised . lol

Not sure what you’re on about? Burke gets a lot of hindsight praise for calling Rielly the top pick that year given he’s outplayed all the guys picked above him. And it’s well reported that Shanahan basically overruled everyone to draft Nylander. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t also give credit to Lou and Hunter or whoever else was here when Marner and Matthews were drafted, but let’s not act like Dubas as insignificant.

Yeah it's really hard to know when Dubas was here for draft picks. He was here for Marner, but dissappeared by the time we drafted Bracco.

Again, acting like I said something I didn’t. Yeah, infamously those ‘15, ‘16, and ‘17 drafts outside of round 1 are awful. If you want to saddle Dubas with some blame for that then go right ahead, but don’t then say with the other side of your mouth he inherited Marner and Matthews and they don’t count towards any team building he’s done.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Not sure what you’re on about? Burke gets a lot of hindsight praise for calling Rielly the top pick that year given he’s outplayed all the guys picked above him. And it’s well reported that Shanahan basically overruled everyone to draft Nylander. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t also give credit to Lou and Hunter or whoever else was here when Marner and Matthews were drafted, but let’s not act like Dubas as insignificant.



Again, acting like I said something I didn’t. Yeah, infamously those ‘15, ‘16, and ‘17 drafts outside of round 1 are awful. If you want to saddle Dubas with some blame for that then go right ahead, but don’t then say with the other side of your mouth he inherited Marner and Matthews and they don’t count towards any team building he’s done.

He didn't inherit Matthews. But as lots of fans always say we cannot credit Lou for Matthews because it was Lou and an obvious pick.

I would however credit Kyle with the Matthews pick. Imo.

 

[hotpaws]

Not sure what you’re on about? Burke gets a lot of hindsight praise for calling Rielly the top pick that year given he’s outplayed all the guys picked above him. And it’s well reported that Shanahan basically overruled everyone to draft Nylander. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t also give credit to Lou and Hunter or whoever else was here when Marner and Matthews were drafted, but let’s not act like Dubas as insignificant.

the only place i've read where Shanny overruled Nonis to draft Willie is written by a few posters on HF . lol

when Lou came he had no use for Dubas and kicked him to the Marlies as per KD so lets top acting like Dubas was the only agm in NHL history who actually ran the team

but hey maybe your right and all the goods moves were Dubies when he was agm so i'm guessing all the good moves now belong to Gilman , weird way of looking at things but it is forward out of the box thinking

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

the only place i've read where Shanny overruled Nonis to draft Willie is written by a few posters on HF . lol

when Lou came he had no use for Dubas and kicked him to the Marlies as per KD so lets top acting like Dubas was the only agm in NHL history who actually ran the team

but hey maybe your right and all the goods moves were Dubies when he was agm so i'm guessing all the good moves now belong to Gilman , weird way of looking at things but it is forward out of the box thinking

So childish.

 

[hotpaws]

So childish.

yup your belief that Dubas has been responsible for every positive move while not being responsible for any poor move since he's been hired is childish

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

yup your belief that Dubas has been responsible for every positive move while not being responsible for any poor move since he's been hired is childish

I'm plenty critical of Dubas, such as with the Foligno trade, his choice in targetting Barrie, and the signing of Mrazek. Just because I'm not frothing at the mouth to have him fired does not mean I think he's infallible. You however don't seem to think he's done anything good at all.

And, not for nothing, if you want actual proof about Shanahan's involvement with the drafting of Nylander, here's an article from the Globe and Mail on the subject.

On Friday afternoon, he spent two hours meeting with the Leafs' first-round pick, William Nylander, and his father, Michael, reminiscing with a former teammate but also doing some last-minute due diligence.

By the time the draft weekend came around, Shanahan felt he had such a good grasp on William Nylander's personality and promise that he found the fact some were questioning his character in the lead-up to Friday humorous.

More importantly, those scouting reports were potentially beneficial to the Leafs, who wanted him to slip to their pick.

"I knew it wasn't true," Shanahan said. "I did a lot of homework on him.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm plenty critical of Dubas, such as with the Foligno trade, his choice in targetting Barrie, and the signing of Mrazek. Just because I'm not frothing at the mouth to have him fired does not mean I think he's infallible. You however don't seem to think he's done anything good at all.

And, not for nothing, if you want actual proof about Shanahan's involvement with the drafting of Nylander, here's an article from the Globe and Mail on the subject.

you said Shanny overruled Nonis and forced him to draft Willie which i said was false and even in the article you posted it said they were hoping Willie dropped to them

i don't like the job he's done so far but that being said i do give him credit for what he's actually done well like

-when he got out selling early and got a 1st for Kap (which is what he was actually worth but not in that environment) in a market that was heavily tilted for buyers and when no one else was getting decent value selling including us when we dealt mango

-signing Brodie who's a solid 2nd pair D

but i'm not going to make up crap to praise him because his actually accomplishments need fluffing since the list is short

 

[The Masters]

One thing about the “Dubas inherited his core” narrative is that he had a pretty big role in the organization during the acquisition of half of them if the core as we describe it is Rielly, Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. He also had a hand in player development since he was in charge of the Marlies, which under his stewardship saw the development of now full time Leafs with Liljegren, Engvall, and Holl. And a few others that are now on other NHL teams with Hyman, Kapanen, and Dermott.

Mikeyeve, Campbell

 

[Menzinger]

the regular season success is entirely due to the elite young core he took over , i don't understand how people keep ignoring this

take a look at the roster without Mathews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly and tell me what you see

The best D core the team has had in almost two decades?