Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[hotpaws]

The best D core the team has had in almost two decades?

is it ?

lets take a look at what they are for the upcoming season

-Rielly , had nothing to do with Dubas
-Brodie , smart/good positionally but no physicality and provides little offense
-Muzzin . classy vet but he's really slowed and is injury prone , basically he's on his last legs
-Holl , Leaf fan favorite whipping boy , he's basically a decent sheltered 3rd pair D
-Sandin we'll see if he can become anymore than a sheltered 3rd pai D that can move the cup and provide some offense
-Lilly , already in the system
-Gio , another classy vet who'll provide leadership but he's 39 and best suited to limited mins on the 3rd pair

so if this is the best D we've had in 20 yrs the bar isn't very high

 

[BertCorbeau]

The best D core the team has had in almost two decades?

I'd also add that despite not having a top 15 pick in the last 6 years, the prospect pool is as good as we have ever seen from the Leafs while they've been trying to win. Prior to the big rebuild several years ago, the Leafs completely sold out their future and drafted horribly. This era has still seen some balance in drafting/developing talent despite some 'win now' moves.

 

[Menzinger]

is it ?

lets take a look at what they are for the upcoming

-Rielly , had nothing to do with Dubas
-Brodie , smart/good positionally but no physicality and provides little offense
-Muzzin . classy vet but he's really slowed and is injury prone , basically he's on his last legs
-Holl , Leaf fan favorite whipping boy , he's basically a decent 3rd pair D
-Sandin we'll see if he can become anymore than a sheltered 3rd pai D that can move the move and provide some offense
-Lilly , already in the system
-Gio , another classy vet who'll provide leadership but he's 39 and best suited to limited mins on the 3rd pair

so if this is the best D we've had in 20 yrs the bar isn't very high

It's likely the first time in the salary cap ers there are 4 actual top 4 D men in the group.

And in that time we've had about 5 other GMs, each having multiple drafts, free agency periods and trades opportunities to do something similar and didn't. Perhaps its harder to do than you think...

 

[hotpaws]

It's likely the first time in the salary cap ers there are 4 actual top 4 D men in the group.

And in that time we've had about 5 other GMs, each having multiple drafts, free agency periods and trades opportunities to do something similar and didn't. Perhaps its harder to do than you think...

we have 2 top 4 D (Reilly/Brodie) , i don't see Muzzin/Gio being able to play top 4 mins effectively for any length of time and we'll have to wait and see if Sandin and/or Lilly can make the jump

 

[andora]

Whoa hotpaws on a roll tonight

 

[IPS]

is it ?

lets take a look at what they are for the upcoming season

-Rielly , had nothing to do with Dubas
-Brodie , smart/good positionally but no physicality and provides little offense
-Muzzin . classy vet but he's really slowed and is injury prone , basically he's on his last legs
-Holl , Leaf fan favorite whipping boy , he's basically a decent 3rd pair D
-Sandin we'll see if he can become anymore than a sheltered 3rd pai D that can move the move and provide some offense
-Lilly , already in the system
-Gio , another classy vet who'll provide leadership but he's 39 and best suited to limited mins on the 3rd pair

so if this is the best D we've had in 20 yrs the bar isn't very high

Pretty balanced take here that will inevitably be shat upon for being a "hater" take.

 

[Menzinger]

we have 2 top 4 D (Reilly/Brodie) , i don't see Muzzin/Gio being able to play top 4 mins effectively for any length of time and we'll have to wait and see if Sandin and/or Lilly can make the jump

Gio averaged 20+ min a night last season and had 35 points

Muzzin averages 20+ min paced for 20+ points with 60%+ defensive zone starts and was arguably one of the best D men from either teams during the Tampa series.

I think you may need to readjust how you define what a top 4 D man is.....

 

[IPS]

Gio averaged 20+ min a night last season and had 35 points

Muzzin averages 20+ min paced for 20+ points with 60%+ defensive zone starts and was arguably one of the best D men from either teams during the Tampa series.

I think you may need to readjust how you define what a top 4 D man is.....

I don't think his point was regarding Muzzin's capability of playing top-4 minutes, but more so his mounting injury issues that has been keeping him out of the lineup a lot lately.

And regarding Gio, a garbage Seattle team is the team he played 20+ mins for, not ours. For the record I thought Gio was extremely solid last year and helped form a very effective 3rd pairing with Liljegren. I have my doubts about him being a top-4 on any real contender.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The best D core the team has had in almost two decades?

2006 Leafs

Kaberle McCabe
Kubina Colaiacovo
Hal Gill Ian White

On paper this is better

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think his point was regarding Muzzin's capability of playing top-4 minutes, but more so his mounting injury issues that has been keeping him out of the lineup a lot lately.

And regarding Gio, a garbage Seattle team is the team he played 20+ mins for, not ours. For the record I thought Gio was extremely solid last year and helped form a very effective 3rd pairing with Liljegren. I have my doubts about him being a top-4 on any real contender.

Gio actually got much tougher usage with the Leafs while producing at a much higher rate. He did average a bit less TOI per game. But was 19+ min a night. He's used as a top 4 D on a good team and produces like one.

I can get some injury concerns about Muzzin. But the fact is he still played the best games of his year during the playoffs when it mattered most.

Overall if one believes the Leafs only have two legit top 4 D men, the same must be true of 90%+ in the league.... Which doesn't seem particularly accurate to me

 

[Menzinger]

2006 Leafs

Kaberle McCabe
Kubina Colaiacovo
Hal Gill Ian White

On paper this is better

That group is actually probably better than most give it credit for.

Though I'm not particularly a huge fan of it below that top pairing (but also Ian White did I think have a pretty decent season that year for a younger guy). Not sure I'd agree it's better than the Leafs group of the past couple seasons BUT it's better that 2006 team deserved. What a dark time for Leafs fans lol

 

[hotpaws]

Gio averaged 20+ min a night last season and had 35 points

Muzzin averages 20+ min paced for 20+ points with 60%+ defensive zone starts and was arguably one of the best D men from either teams during the Tampa series.

I think you may need to readjust how you define what a top 4 D man is.....

I think you need to raise the bar a little and stop being so biased .

if Muzzin and Gio were Habs you’d be calling them washed up and pissing yourself with laughter if there fans were pumping them as quality top 4 D

both guys are classy vets but time catches up to every player , even Leaf players shockingly

 

[kevsh]

This jumped out at me as a prediction:

Kyle Dubas – who is in the last year of his contract - gets a short extension around Christmas (Eight predictions for the 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs)

This makes no sense to me - What does MLSE expect Dubas to do between now and Christmas that warrants an extension? I believe the general consensus has been that if a GM is not given an extension after a 115 point season suggests that the extension largely relies upon how the team does in the post-season.

The rationale in that article is that if he's going to be making big moves at the deadline he should have the security. Otherwise, why not just replace him now. Again, non-sensical to me. He's the GM until he's not. Therefore, he should be given the freedom to do as he sees fit, if anything, at the deadline.

The trust and faith you have in him is that he won't go and mortgage the future to save his job (or get an extension). Otherwise, by doing so he's clearly proven he's not the right guy. Therefore, let him do what he feels is best for the organization and when the playoffs are over, Shanny will make the call one way or another.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Feel that heat Kyle?

 

[kb]

Feel that heat Kyle?

Why would he? He signed Samsonov too.

Might wanna hold off on that especially if they go on a run with Samsonov.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Why would he? He signed Samsonov too.

Might wanna hold off on that especially if they go on a run with Samsonov.

Come on. Is this a genius fake out in order to gain cap relief? Did they pin their hopes solely on a Samsonov / Kallgren tandem?

 

[kb]

Come on. Is this a genius fake out in order to gain cap relief? Did they pin their hopes solely on a Samsonov / Kallgren tandem?

No, but the LTIR will now allow them to call up Robertson and more.

There is an upside/bright side to this.

 

[centipede2233]

This jumped out at me as a prediction:

Kyle Dubas – who is in the last year of his contract - gets a short extension around Christmas (Eight predictions for the 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs)

This makes no sense to me - What does MLSE expect Dubas to do between now and Christmas that warrants an extension? I believe the general consensus has been that if a GM is not given an extension after a 115 point season suggests that the extension largely relies upon how the team does in the post-season.

The rationale in that article is that if he's going to be making big moves at the deadline he should have the security. Otherwise, why not just replace him now. Again, non-sensical to me. He's the GM until he's not. Therefore, he should be given the freedom to do as he sees fit, if anything, at the deadline.

The trust and faith you have in him is that he won't go and mortgage the future to save his job (or get an extension). Otherwise, by doing so he's clearly proven he's not the right guy. Therefore, let him do what he feels is best for the organization and when the playoffs are over, Shanny will make the call one way or another.

My prediction was dubas should have been fired after the Montreal series. But I will offer a new prediction. Buffalo, Ottawa, New Jersey, Detroit, a healthy non covid NYI, and a stubborn flyers team coached by torts, all these bottom feeder teams got better. And Toronto is capable of losing on any given night to any of these teams. Add in a Montreal team who plays them tough no matter the lineup, if Toronto fails to show up more times then not on a nightly basis, I predict they are amongst bubble teams around Christmas and dubas is shown the door. Yes it would seem unlikely after a 115 pt season, but with uncertainty in their goalies and injury history, Vegas showed last year just because you were a top team doe not make you immune to missing the playoffs the next year.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

No, but the LTIR will now allow them to call up Robertson and more.

There is an upside/bright side to this.

There is no upside. We still dont know if Samsonov is good enough to be an every day starter. Even if he plays 50 games are we going to be good enough now and the post season with Samsonov and Kallgren?

 

[kb]

There is no upside. We still dont know if Samsonov is good enough to be an every day starter. Even if he plays 50 games are we going to be good enough now and the post season with Samsonov and Kallgren?

Well, I mean when every post is doom and gloom, I really didn't expect anything different.

Perhaps you need to take a break and collect your thoughts. It's just a game. A pastime. it's not life.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Well, I mean when every post is doom and gloom, I didn't exppect anything different.

Perhaps you need to take a break and collect your thoughts. It's a game. A pastime. it's not life.

It's not all doom and gloom. It's just that fans expect more. A GM should be better than a wing and a prayer. It doesn't have to be like this every single year with the goaltending, but it is.

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

This clown should be a video coach, not managing the biggest hockey club in the world

 

[WTFMAN99]

Perfectly valid thread bump.

 

[Stephen]

With Murray and Muzzin already injured less than 1 week into the new season, you're kind of glad it's not your job on the line.

 

[Dave92]

If Dubas is done, my god what a legacy of waste and failure he'll leave behind.