VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
RB you may be part of the problem, not the solution if you lived though the Sakic & MacInnis era and think the latter in any way shape or form is equal to the former.
ATD 2022 DRAFT THREAD I
- Thread starter ImporterExporter
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
- Status
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
I was born in 1994, I did not live through that era
It's incredible how you continually miss the differing valuations people have given positional scarcity my guy
Professor What
Registered User
Don't want all my eggs in one basket though. I'd also set a record for most goals given up. Lol
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
bunny rabbit... I was in grad school in 1994. Give one reason why marginal HHOFer MacInnis deserves to go serveral spots ahead of slam-dunk 1st ballot HHOFer Sakic, the topic of this discussion.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Because one of them plays defense in a team building exercise in which teams without true 1Ds usually get penalized heavily
Wow that was easy
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 49,188
- 30,195
First - in no way is MacInnis a fringe HHOF player. Seven postseason AS (in a very deep era), a Norris and a Conn Smythe? That's as locked as a lock can get. In fact - at a glance it isn't far off from Sakic's trophy case of one Hart/Ross and one Conn Smythe with only three AS. That being said - yeah Sakic is clearly a better player. That's fine - this isn't about drafting the best player necessarily.
Second - centers are dropping in this draft a bit. D are clearly being valued at a premium. There have been quite a few that went higher than their all-time placements and you could argue that pretty much every D drafted has gone higher relative to their placement except for maybe Shore - which created three pages of discussion. Maybe at the end of the day we'll all look like fools, but a guy like MacInnis at least brings some playoff bona fides, a rare skillset on offense, and competent defense. He's for sure a #1D in this format.
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
the next time im off a friends phone and online illargue sakic over macinnis.. by a bigger gap than hes being disrespected at.
Professor What
Registered User
I didn't need Sakic. I already had THE #1 center. MacInnis gives the breakout threat, that ridiculous slapshot, decent defense, and both power play and penalty kill acumen. Not to mention he's a right hand shot. Not sorry for that pick at all.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Mac carved out a pretty damn good career given he wasn't the fleetest of foot, and over the back half of said career, developed into a respectable player in his own end when the league dictated it. Not all players had the ability to let go of their ego.
Everyone else hit the crucial points regarding him going over Sakic in this specific venue.
Everyone else hit the crucial points regarding him going over Sakic in this specific venue.
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
- 15,705
- 5,219
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 49,188
- 30,195
I mean - you're arguing at a wall. No one is disagreeing with you.
Draft value does not equal all-time value, especially since the meta of this whole thing really slams you if you don't have a #1D.
The argument here shouldn't be "MacInnis over Sakic" - it's more MacInnis over Pronger/Taylor/undrafteds. Even then, we're in that mushy middle for a lot of the defensemen who will go in this range, where skillset stands out more than just an absolute "this guy is better than this guy".
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Professor What
Registered User
I have no issue with that, and that's one of my favorite parts (if not my absolute favorite part) of this. When there are competing skill sets available and you have to make those calls to decide who fits what you're trying to do and make sure you check all the boxes you need. Otherwise, we should just hand out the top 200 players in order according to the board projects. Obviously, that would be boring, but what we do here isn't. I don't know how my team build is going to pan out. But honestly, while sure, I'd like to win, I care a lot more about the team building mental exercise than that.
Dreakmur
Registered User
So much has to do with luck too. Sometimes the guy you really need gets scooped right before your pick and sometimes guys just drop right into your lap.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,093
- 14,067
I don't get why you took Trottier over Joe here. Felt Sakic was a better fit with Lindsay, since he's a playmaking LWer, just like Sakic's real life LWer. I'd consider flipping Sakic/Trots with TDMM.
Love Trots obviously, and it was a great pick, but Sakic would have been even better for your top line.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 49,188
- 30,195
Eh - Lindsay led the league in goals once, and often placed rather highly.
From his bio: Goal finishes: 1,2,2,3,5,6,6,6,6,9
Strikes me as more of a complete player than a pure playmaker. Trottier and him can probably feed off of each other just fine. Trottier himself has three top ten goal finishes.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,093
- 14,067
Not the point; the fit is still better with Joe. Playmaking LWers don't grow on trees, but Lindsay is certainly one, even if he could score too. Meanwhile TDMM has Cook, a goalscoring RWer. I feel the flip would make both their team better. Just my .2 cents. As it is, both still got steals with Trots and Joe so late in the draft.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
You can definitely argue over Pronger and MacInnis
But there's really only one GM stupid enough to take Taylor and have him at D
Professor What
Registered User
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,093
- 14,067
What impresses me is that you managed to convince rmartin65 to take part in your folly lol
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
The best part was he suggested we take him
I'm not some corrupting force, I'm a magnet for true believers
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 49,188
- 30,195
Man with Taylor you read his bio and it looks like he f***ing played everywhere. Like I could be convinced if you put him in goal honestly.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
He played wing (LW) in a couple of cup challenge games still the only position he's managed to win an ATD from.
Generally the timeline is
IHL - Rover - 1.5 seasons
ECAHA/ECHA/NHA - Cover (D) - 4 seasons
PCHA until 17-18 - Rover - 5 seasons
PCHA after 17-18 - Center 4 seasons
Edit: And rover's usage is very confusing, based on contemporary descriptions of their usage they were essentially responsible for doing everything to cover for the forwards or defensemen. We think between Taylor and Orr on the backend our team will expressly allow these incredible "rovers" to generate as much offense as they can.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
And everything that makes him a top 50 pick was at rover, playing mostly like a modern center, right?
- Status
