ATD 2022 DRAFT THREAD I

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I think, in all the years and countless newspapers I've read on early era hockey, the one thing that sticks out more than any other, was just how physically brutal the games were. Those guys were playing most, if not all the games. People REGULARLY got cracked in the head with sticks, sucker punched, knocked out cold, stitched back up, sent back into games after clearly experiencing a severe brain injury (they obviously didn't realize the extent of the medical ramifications at the time). Referees were assaulted on numerous occasions. Fans jumping into the fray. It was quite literally, the wild west of pro hockey in many respects. The fact that more people didn't die in this time frame is remarkable.

 

[ResilientBeast]

And everything that makes him a top 50 pick was at rover, playing like a modern center, right?

I guess that's subject to your interpretation of how rovers played.

His time in Ottawa and Renfrew playing cover he was already considered one of, if not the greatest player in the league.

From my 2019 bio

Courtesy of @tarheelhockey - Saskatoon Phoenix 12/10/1919

Under the old style, the rover had to do the bulk of the checking back. In baseball parlance, it was the duty of the rover to back up every play. He had to check any man who got away from his cover; in short, he had to assume the responsibility for any weak spots on the team. One thing that characterised a good rover was his ability to get goals off rebounds. Another way of putting it is that he almost had to play "inside home". He likewise had to go into the corner after stray pucks. He had to be an almost superhuman player. [lists "superhuman" rovers: lots of undrafteds]

Today under the six-man game a new school of players has sprung up. Very few of the great centre men of the seven-man game have ever starred under the present rules. xxx are two of the few of the old game players who have maintained their "reps" under the shortened style. This is because the centre men depended too much on the rovers to do their checking back. The late xxx, one of the greatest centre ice men the game has ever known, did not last long under the new rules. The same can be said of xxx of the Wanderers.

Frank Nighbor of the Ottawa, acknowledged as the best centre man in six-man hockey did not come into any great prominence under the seven-man rules although he did star at the coast. This is for the simple reason that he had been taught to play centre in the proper way for six-man hockey by xxx. xxx is not a flashy or even brilliant centre ice man; it is his old goal-getting tactics that has left him so long in the ring.

The centre ice man today must bear the brunt of the work of the forward line. He must be a rugged player, a back checker and a goal getter. He has to face off the puck, watch the front of the nets the same as both the centre ice men had to do in the old game. The wing men too must share a certain amount of the work of the rover. During a face-off, one of the wing men usually stands half way between his wing and where the rover usually stood during a face-off. The defence men must also take on a part of the work of the deposed player.

Edit: I think that is all the undrafteds

 

[Professor What]

The best part was he suggested we take him

I'm not some corrupting force, I'm a magnet for true believers

So what you're saying is that, while you weren't originally teamed up with a degenerate, things are headed in that direction?

 

[Johnny Engine]

I'm going to go with Pierre Pilote. I personally have him as the best overall defenseman left, and while there are a few others just below that with a more ey-popping skillset, I think starting with a leftie who can play the rigth opens up some productive paths going forward.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I guess that's subject to your interpretation of how rovers played.

His time in Ottawa and Renfrew playing cover he was already considered one of, if not the greatest player in the league.

From my 2019 bio

Courtesy of @tarheelhockey - Saskatoon Phoenix 12/10/1919


Edit: I think that is all the undrafteds

This is all about rovers in general, what about Cyclone?

Weren't his best years played when rover tended to be more offensive?

I'm well aware that even when rover was a mostly offensive position, that they were required to backcheck more than the center

 

[ResilientBeast]

I guess that's subject to your interpretation of how rovers played.

His time in Ottawa and Renfrew playing cover he was already considered one of, if not the greatest player in the league.

From my 2019 bio

Courtesy of @tarheelhockey - Saskatoon Phoenix 12/10/1919


Edit: I think that is all the undrafteds

This also runs against how we understand the Millionaires played but all the contemporary evidence I can find suggests this is a generally accepted account for the duties of the rover (and god have I tried).

I assume the liberated passing rules in the PCHA made the Millionaires move Taylor back to rover since he was without a doubt the draw of the team and league and gave him a large opportunity to star. Taylor was absolutely without a doubt the most exciting player for fans so it just makes sense to put him into a position to generate ungodly amounts of goals.

This is all about rovers in general, what about Cyclone?

Weren't his best years played when rover tended to be more offensive?

I'm well aware that even when rover was a mostly offensive position, that they were required to backcheck more than the center

As I said above after your comment. The PCHA rovers were definitely an offensive position until 1917-18 where suddenly all teams switched their centers and rovers as the centers were stronger defensively.

Taylor was put at cover point allegedly give him more space and opportunity because of his tremendous skating and since the passing rules wouldn't give him as much opportunity to make plays from forward. @rmartin65 and I agree that we traditionally see rovers as just centers, but based on all the contemporary evidence they were clearly something unique that just doesn't translate to C in the modern game.

Ultimately Taylor's play reminds us of Bobby Orr in a very direct way and his usage as a puck rushing offensive defenseman just makes sense for what we're trying to do.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm going to go with Pierre Pilote. I personally have him as the best overall defenseman left, and while there are a few others just below that with a more ey-popping skillset, I think starting with a leftie who can play the rigth opens up some productive paths going forward.

Eh, you made the choice for us. Would have been cool to reunite him with Hull but I'm fine with the other D I'm about to pick. Good pick for you.

I loved the description of Pilote as an hybrid between Lidstrom and Leetch.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm going to go with Pierre Pilote. I personally have him as the best overall defenseman left, and while there are a few others just below that with a more ey-popping skillset, I think starting with a leftie who can play the rigth opens up some productive paths going forward.

Like if they were using Taylor at D, why not just draft Pilote, who was way more accomplished at D?

Anyway, I've said my piece. I do love the overall player in Taylor.

 

[The Macho King]

I'm going to go with Pierre Pilote. I personally have him as the best overall defenseman left, and while there are a few others just below that with a more ey-popping skillset, I think starting with a leftie who can play the rigth opens up some productive paths going forward.

Good value. Something in the back of my head makes me hesitate with him - but definitely a quality player and a legit #1.

Just wish his PK didn't seem like such a detriment. Probably the only #1 other than Coffey I can think of with that hole in his game.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The Montreal Canadiens will select one of the last defensemen who brings everything to the table, Sprague Cleghorn, D.

Cleghorn in action during a practice with the Habs (#2)

 

[The Macho King]

The Montreal Canadiens will select one of the last defensemen who brings everything to the table, Sprague Cleghorn, D.

Cleghorn in action during a practice with the Habs

And by everything I'm assuming you mean a hatchet that he will use to kill people with?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

And by everything I'm assuming you mean a hatchet that he will use to kill people with?

Clegs is undisciplined true, but any more than Pronger?

 

[ResilientBeast]

And by everything I'm assuming you mean a hatchet that he will use to kill people with?

No Sprague uses crutches to do that

 

[Professor What]

Clegs is undisciplined true, but any more than Pronger?

The only difference is the eras. Within that context, I think they're basically the same.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Like if they were using Taylor at D, why not just draft Pilote, who was way more accomplished at D?

Anyway, I've said my piece. I do love the overall player in Taylor.

Because Taylor is superior in a couple of ways especially on a team employing Esposito lol

Edit: He's the closest we can get to Bobby Orr without having to lose @The Macho King 's vote by picking Coffey.

From my 2019/2021 bios, I should check trail to confirm the placements

At cover
1907-08 - ECAHA - Ottawa Senators - 2nd in scoring as a defenceman
1908-09 - ECHA - Ottawa Senators - 3rd in scoring as a defenceman
1909-10 - NHA - Renfrew Creamery Kings - 2nd in scoring as a defenceman (his teammate who was a rover, so really 1st)
1910-11 - NHA - Renfrew Creamery Kings - 2nd (?) in scoring as defenceman (I can't find who was ahead of him)

And this is all at a time where assists aren't recorded and he was a noted terrific playmaker and his end to end rushes would've resulted in tons of rebound assists or passes.

 

[The Macho King]

Clegs is undisciplined true, but any more than Pronger?

In a "one for one" sense, obviously yes. Adjusting for era....

Interesting. Discipline is an issue for both of them obviously. The stomping incident is the only one where I think Pronger is really making a run at Cleghorn for crazy, but that is a hell of an incident so...

I don't know. But I love the player - he was my first ever defenseman in an ATD.

 

[The Macho King]

Also - holy hell am I glad I'm not in the Fischer conference. Just on the back-end, that Conference has Cleghorn, Shore, Pronger, Chelios, and Potvin. Oh and Bobby Clarke, Gordie Howe, and Mark Messier.

Jesus any team that comes out of the conference is coming out on crutches.

 

[RustyRazor]

Pronger is definitely dirty but he was never suspended by his own team during the playoffs dirty.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The Montreal Canadiens will select one of the last defensemen who brings everything to the table, Sprague Cleghorn, D.

Cleghorn in action during a practice with the Habs (#2)

Putting together a team that's hard to play against.

Or is it hard to play with?

 

[Professor What]

In a "one for one" sense, obviously yes. Adjusting for era....

Interesting. Discipline is an issue for both of them obviously. The stomping incident is the only one where I think Pronger is really making a run at Cleghorn for crazy, but that is a hell of an incident so...

I don't know. But I love the player - he was my first ever defenseman in an ATD.

The pros outweigh the cons for sure. I mean, Eddie Shore had the Ace Bailey incident, but he's still a clear top 5 all-time defenseman, and I'd in no way consider him a liability. They all have some severe incidents, but none of that would scare me away from any of those guys because we all know it's baked into the cake and accounted for as such.

 

[Professor What]

Putting together a team that's hard to play against.

Or is it hard to play with?

Not necessarily exclusive. Interesting build going on. Eager to see where it goes.

 

[The Macho King]

Putting together a team that's hard to play against.

Or is it hard to play with?

Eh - Cleghorn had success everywhere he went.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Putting together a team that's hard to play against.

Or is it hard to play with?

Cleghorn always made his teams better, and was known as a solid leader.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Eh - Cleghorn had success everywhere he went.

Just sayin', Cleghorn, Makarov and Hull not exactly sparkling personalities.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Just sayin', Cleghorn, Makarov and Hull not exactly sparkling personalities.

We're bad boys