ATD 2020 Draft Thread IV

[BenchBrawl]

Hlinka has already centered the 3rd line of an ATD champion in a smaller draft than this (26 teams in 2016). I don't recall any great complaints about him in that role, though I think Rob was also swapping Don Marshall in as 3rd line center at times when he wanted to give a more defensive look. It was an innovative team, as Rob's tended to be.

Maybe the greatest team in ATD history for the era it was played in. He had no challenger that year.

He won that draft when he managed to secure Krutov and Foyston in quick succession to give him a 1st and 2nd lines that were almost interchangeable in strenght.

The fact that he pulled a J.Holik-Hlinka-Nevin 3rd line is the icing on the cake.

Crazy lineup with Harvey-Boucher-Goodfellow as the Big Three on defense, as well as Lester Patrick behind the bench.

 

[rmartin65]

Bonus points for f***ing up the spelling of Cy Denneny's name, champ

It's an ATD tradition.

I never mess with tradition.

 

[Sturminator]

Maybe the greatest team in ATD history for the era it was played in. He had no challenger that year.

He won that draft when he managed to secure Krutov and Foyston in quick succession to give him a 1st and 2nd lines that were almost interchangeable in strenght.

The fact that he pulled a J.Holik-Hlinka-Nevin 3rd line is the icing on the cake.

Crazy lineup with Harvey-Boucher-Goodfellow as the Big Three on defense, as well as Lester Patrick behind the bench.

Rob's teams were awesome. The first one of that back-to-back run he put on is still my favorite.

 

[The Macho King]

I guess I'm going to keep the blood connection going here.

Richmond Robins select:

LW Dave Trottier

 

[BenchBrawl]

Rob's teams were awesome. The first one of that back-to-back run he put on is still my favorite.

His first was the most original, his second was the most dominant. But a winner is a winner.

Ranking the ATD champions would be an interesting exercise, but very difficult considering the ever-changing perspective on each player's value (not to mention the fluctuations of what type of team is fashionable).

Since I'm there (2011), excluding 2011 because I was too inexperienced to judge the teams , I'd rank them as follow, from best to "worst":

1. 2016
2. 2017
3. 2013
4.2014
5.2015
6.2019
7.2018
8.2012

This is just a preliminary gut-feeling ranking, and all of them were obviously strong teams.

I expect to get burned for ranking both my winners in the Top 3, but there was objectively a lot of buzz around them as the draft progressed and in the playoffs. They were favorites early on (TDMM called them both before the playoffs started). This isn't surprising, as I'm a gambler type of GM, and you'd expect my highs to be high and my lows to be low, and you'd expect a gambler-type to score more when trading is allowed (as it was in 2013 and 2017).

Unsurprisingly, I excelled more when you were around to help me, either as co-GM or as a consultant to bounce off ideas in PM, which is something I think I'm missing since 2018. I have a tendency to follow my impulses too much, and back and forth with someone else helps control that, as well as the additional knowledge (of which you have more than me), making sure I don't have any blindspot; i.e. don't miss an obvious steal that wasn't obvious to me. Plus the team-building strategy. All of this made us a great team for some reason which is hard to explain, as I have tried partnering with other people in other hobbies of my life, often with mediocre results. But sometimes you partner with someone and it works. Such was the case with you.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Would be interesting to see such a ranking of ATD champions by people who were there from the beginning of the playoffs era.

 

[Namba 17]

Hlinka = Petrov

Different skillsets, similar international dominance.

Czechoslovakians at every position are undervalued relative to Soviets, especially in the mid- to late-70s, when they were equivalent.

Petrov > Hlinka.
Not by far, though.
Both underrated extremely.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Eh nevermind.

 

[papershoes]

With the skipped picks,

Renfrew selects: REED LARSON -- DEFENCE

Kenora selects: WENDEL CLARK -- LW

 

[tinyzombies]

Larson vs Carlyle is such a depressing comparison, isn't it?

 

[Dreakmur]

Larson vs Carlyle is such a depressing comparison, isn't it?

Larson is an amazing ES scorer for this point in the draft.

 

[tinyzombies]

Larson is an amazing ES scorer for this point in the draft.

Ok, so now I made a huge mistake. Good to know.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ok, so now I made a huge mistake. Good to know.

I still think Carlyle is better... though I could be swayed.

 

[tinyzombies]

I still think Carlyle is better... though I could be swayed.

Oh, it's so on. Neither guy had any help.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Larson is an amazing ES scorer for this point in the draft.

But shockingly unimpressive on the PP

He's a really unique player. Hard to make good use of in this format IMO

 

[Dreakmur]

But shockingly unimpressive on the PP

He's a really unique player. Hard to make good use of in this format IMO

I wouldn't say shockingly bad, but certainly not top-unit quality.

I just deleted all the numbers, but I think he had a 7 seasons PP vs.X of about 75, which isn't bad. His 7 season ES vs.X was over 85, so that is very impressive.

I think at least part of a guy's PP effectiveness is a result of the guys he play with, even more than at ES.

 

[tinyzombies]

Fetisov-Konstantinov
Pulford-Larson

THat's a nice top 3, of course. Larson was loaded with talent too.

 

[MadArcand]

Hurricanes select Tomáš Kaberle, D

 

[BM67]

But shockingly unimpressive on the PP

He's a really unique player. Hard to make good use of in this format IMO

The limiting factor on Larson's PP production is GP. Compare to some other D from the same time, on a per game basis only Wilson was on for more PPG/GP.

Player	GP	PPG	PPP	PPGF	PPGF/GP	PPP/PPGF
Larson	904	88	274	482	0.533	56.8%
Wilson	1024	85	380	687	0.671	55.3%
Carlyle	1055	55	295	548	0.519	53.8%
Salming	1148	47	307	585	0.51	52.5%
Robinson	1384	66	309	608	0.439	50.8%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[VanIslander]

What about liability?

Those stats say squat about overall effectiveness during all shifts, when opposition forwards may have schooled them.

Partial lenses are... partial.

I thought in the 1980s (middle and high school for me) that Salming was not worse than Larson, quite the opposite.

 

[Habsfan18]

How good was Reed Larson?

I compiled some quotes on Larson here from the Zander Hollander books. His defensive play improved to at least being “solid” or “adequate” as his career went on.

 

[papershoes]

The limiting factor on Larson's PP production is GP. Compare to some other D from the same time, on a per game basis only Wilson was on for more PPG/GP.

Player	GP	PPG	PPP	PPGF	PPGF/GP	PPP/PPGF
Larson	904	88	274	482	0.533	56.8%
Wilson	1024	85	380	687	0.671	55.3%
Carlyle	1055	55	295	548	0.519	53.8%
Salming	1148	47	307	585	0.51	52.5%
Robinson	1384	66	309	608	0.439	50.8%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Yah, my initial read on Reed was that he was very much a viable option as a RHD on a 1st unit PP in a 40 team draft. Hopefully, his defensive deficiencies will be masked by playing with Fetisov on PP1, Pulford at ES, and never stepping foot on the ice during the PK. He's not a dynamo by any means but, he shoots low and hard, which is a hallmark for a pointshot on the PP.

That said, I may be 100% wrong

 

[BM67]

What about liability?

Those stats say squat about overall effectiveness during all shifts, when opposition forwards may have schooled them.

Partial lenses are... partial.

I thought in the 1980s (middle and high school for me) that Salming was not worse than Larson, quite the opposite.

Really? You need some numbers to clarify wither the player taken 65th is better than a player taken 500+?

Salming vs Larson for better PPQB might be an interesting debate, but as overall D there isn't anything to debate about.

 

[VanIslander]

*sigh*

I hope my co-GM is up to this.

 

[Habsfan18]

Baltimore selects a Selke winner noted for his top notch shadowing/checking abilities..C, Steve Kasper

The following quotes are taken from Rob Scuderi’s Kasper bio: ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread

Nobody plays better defense on me than Kasper. When I got married I half expected to see Kasper standing at the altar in a tux.

Earned nickname of "The Shadow" as a rookie last season...Young center often matched against opposing team's best center...His shadow checking limited superstar Wayne Gretzky to one goal in four games, no shots in five of six periods...Also neutralized Calgary's xxx and Los Angeles' Marcel Dionne with tight, persistent checking..."He did as fine a job on me as anybody in the league and he didn't do it with any dirty tactics," The Great Gretzky said of the Bruins' rookie..."Steve really dominated Gretzky with his checking," said Bruins' captain xxx...A gifted passer...Plays high-energy game similar to Flyers' Bobby Clarke.

Kasper the ghost...You don't see him, but he's there...Mr. Defense...Last year's winner of Frank Selke Trophy awarded to outstanding defensive forward...How can you stop Wayne Grezky? Only The Shadow knows...Highlight of his brief career has been playing great defense on Gretzky...Not only held Gretzky without a point in one game last season, but even scored a goal himself...Talented passer who has a high level of enthusiasm...Consistently plays excellent defense against outstanding centers in league...

Kasper is a great skater and that's an asset he uses quite well as a checking forward...His ice vision and anticipation is excellent, as he checks by keeping himself directly between his man and the puck...Because he has such good anticipation, Kasper makes an excellent penalty killer and last year he led the Bruins with three short-handed goals.

Kasper is a checker, clean but hard. He doesn't play a very physical game because of his size, but has good strength that he puts to use when he takes his man out the play by holding him for an extra second necessary to disrupt the offense's rhythm...He has the stamina and conditioning to double-shift if need be. Trying to run him ragged is a tactic that won't work.

He is one of the top two or three defensive forwards in the game and can open up his offensive game if management wishes.