ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

[PatrikOverAuston]

The Shamrocks select G Lorne Chabot to back up Clint Benedict.

 

[Johnny Engine]

He's not a atd calibre player. He held a franchise back because he has no leadership skills. Yet it's a roll they acquired him for .

He is a flower that will ackwardly wilt when the heat of the atd hits him hard if he ever makes it out of the dressing room

You yourself argued that trading him led them to get their current franchise player. That means You yourself argued that Kessel was helping them win games - too many games to finish last. Recent history suggests that having Phil Kessel in the lineup helps the Leafs, Penguins and team USA win more games than they would win without him in the lineup.

Unless you think King Forsberg's goal is to tank for the right to draft a hotshot kid out of Arizona, there's zero evidence Kessel will hold him back.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Tanking in the ATD? Sounds fun.

That's what seventies is trying to pull off this year, right?

(KIDDING!)

I've always though it would be interesting to do a series of drafts broken down by era, with the last place finisher getting the top pick, and everyone keeps players who straddle eras. So if you had one ending in 1968, you could draft Orr and Esposito, have them be almost worthless in that draft, and then draft Lafleur or Gretzky #1OA in the next one for your big run.

 

[seventieslord]

EDIT: Your bio has a quote that says: "...complete hockey skills, possessing breakaway speed, stickhandling ability and a devastating shot." THAT is about offense, not "complete player", two-way, defensive ability. It's misleading...

.... did I say that line was about two-way or defensive ability?

I've read this post like five times now, and I find myself asking, could someone be so cynical or ignorant that they might actually think I tried to pass off that line off as evidence of two-way play or defensive skill? Would someone really just ctrl-F the word "complete" and pick out the first instance of the word and use it to fuel a silly rant? I don't know man, I think you know better than that, and you just wanted it to look that way.

The word "complete" was used three other times in a more defensive/two-way context during the bio (as well as a half dozen other similar mentions) - you'd know that if you read it. Not that I expect you or anyone else to immediately read an obnoxiously long quote dump, but if you're going to post pointed criticism of it and of me, reading and comprehending it would be a good thing to do first.

In 1984, when Lemaire pushed the defensive system, it wasn't that Lafleur wasn't any good at it - he actually was - he just wasn't used to it and didn't like it, and as he followed it dilligently, that style of play coupled with his declining skills caused him to experience a scoring slump, and in a reaction far too extreme, he retired over it.

No one is trying to say Lafleur is the equal of a Claude Provost, or even a Rick Middleton, or even a Dave Taylor defensively. But he became a very involved player all over the ice around 1973, and within a year that led to him posting astronomical numbers, and throughout his prime it was acknowledged regularly that he was not weak or deficient in any area.

Defense was never his job or primary skill, not even close. Sturm is right, it would be like getting Van Gogh to clean the barn. But that doesn't automatically mean he didn't, or never, backchecked. A player can rarely be described in such black and white terms.

Misleading? I think a better example of misleading is when someone says a goalie who has 30 appearances and a record of 8-10-7 "only won 8 of 30 games" while another one whom he wants to pump up had 51 appearances and a 20-14-11 record is described as "only losing 14 of 51 games" - you have nothing to say to me about being misleading.

 

[seventieslord]

Strathcona adds an offensively-oriented #7 in Mathieu Schneider, D

Very good pick. Best defenseman available for offense, but was also a heavily utilized player who never fell below 22 minutes a game for like 16 straight seasons. Nothing special defensively at this level but a good replacement PP guy (a solid 3rd PP D on any squad).

What any player has done this season UP TO NOW has always been part of all-time draft consideration.

I agree, I only want to consider what's happened up until today. But Dreakmur did say "if...", so what's the big deal here?

The Invincibles select Victor Shalimov, RW

2x Soviet 1st Team All Star (1976, 1982)
2x Top 3 Soviet MVP Voting (3, 3)
2x Best Line in Soviet Union Member (1976, 1980)
7x Top 7 Soviet Point Scoring (1, 3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 7)
Best Forward at 1982 World Championships
2x Leading Goal scorer at WC (1975, 1982)
Led WC in Points, 1975
1976 Super Series Leading Soviet Scorer

He was the most potent winger in last year's MLD. I was looking forward to having the chance to take him but glad to see him get up here.

He's pure offense, right? There's maybe one more winger I'd take over him for pure offense but it's close.

he has no leadership skills. Yet it's a roll they acquired him for .

Unbelieveable.

His lack of leadership skills might be the only reason he was even available in a trade!

This is completely backwards. They acquired him to score. Despite a lack of leadership skills.

Camille Henry - LW

To beef up the powerplay, eh? Looks like xxxx, do I get extra points for that?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=31424325&postcount=151

I was wondering if he'd get taken. I was looking forward to absolutely decapitating MLD PK units with Henry.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

...well said (says the guy who just argued with LL! )

Rick Vaive was a better scorer then kessel and a leader of a equally bad leafs teams.

Vaive possesed leadership skills on and off the ice.

the book "Captains" by Michael Ulmer about all the prominent Leaf captains discusses how Vaive was constantly under fire for being perceived as a poor leader who wasn't setting an example on or off the ice.

Tanking in the ATD? Sounds fun.

That's what seventies is trying to pull off this year, right?

(KIDDING!)

Sometimes it backfires. Your MLD team last year looked like a sure tank job, and it won a playoff round.

(KIDDING!)

Uh.. somehow VanI got skipped while online. Again.

Who the hell is even OTC....

My bad, I thought post #885 was VI taking Worsley. His team already has two goalies, but if he wants Chabot, he can have him. I did PM the GM after me though.

As best as I can figure MadArcand is up.

EE picked at 1:48 am EST

RB's window was between 1:48 and 5:48. He missed this.

MadArcand's window is between 5:48 and 9:48 am.

So in 12 minutes, Sprague can pick.

Now techically EE's pick at 1:48 was illegal since VI hadn't picked yet but he misses his window anyway so it retroactively makes EE's pick legal.

I'll PM MadArcand and Sprague

...and this is why we should never have 4 hour clocks again.

 

[seventieslord]

I just realized this year's Regina Pats have achieved something quite trivial - there are perhaps a dozen ATD caliber forwards capable of playing the point on the powerplay, and we've somehow managed to acquire four of them, pretty much by accident - it was never something I was specifically looking for:

Evgeni Malkin
Phil Goyette
Brian Rolston
Bernie Nicholls

how many are there anyway? I can think of a few more:

Fred Stanfield
Brad Richards
Bernie Geoffrion
Max Bentley

and a few who were put there last year but I'm not actually sure did it in real life:

Paul Kariya
Wayne Gretzky
Ryan Getzlaf
Ilya Kovalchuk

in most cases, you know your own players better than I do, so who else is out there?

 

[895]

Perhaps it's recency and Caps fan bias but you've forgotten the greatest one timer from the point in hockey history, Ovechkin.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I haven't had tons of time to do research so I'm going to select an assistant coach. Laviolette is not really known as a players coach so I'll grab a guy Art Ross fired for being too nice. He got the very best out of Taylor, Mickay and was the coach when Eddie Shore won two of his Hart Trophies. He prefers a strong offensive system like Laviolette but will make sure everyone buys into the system. The Maroons complete their coaching staff and selects Frank Patrick, Coach

I will be making an update bio once I free up some time.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I just realized this year's Regina Pats have achieved something quite trivial - there are perhaps a dozen ATD caliber forwards capable of playing the point on the powerplay, and we've somehow managed to acquire four of them, pretty much by accident - it was never something I was specifically looking for:

Evgeni Malkin
Phil Goyette
Brian Rolston
Bernie Nicholls

how many are there anyway? I can think of a few more:

Fred Stanfield
Brad Richards
Bernie Geoffrion
Max Bentley

and a few who were put there last year but I'm not actually sure did it in real life:

Paul Kariya
Wayne Gretzky
Ryan Getzlaf
Ilya Kovalchuk

in most cases, you know your own players better than I do, so who else is out there?

Bobby Hull

Alfredsson did for part of his career

I wouldn't put him there in the ATD, but Patrick Sharp played the point on the Hawks' powerplay for several years...IMO they should've had Seabrook there

I think Bathgate did, but not 100% on that

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bathgate played the point.What about Bobby Rousseau? Didn't he play the point too? Or is that my imagination? By the way, I remember Getzlaf playing the point at least early in his career, so I confirm that.I also confirm Kovalchuk.Kovalchuk is a pretty good pointman, even at the ATD level his shot makes him dangerous.

Also one undrafted around this range who did it.

According to this post from overpass, Doug Bentley also did it.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=749940

 

[King Forsberg]

Kovalchuk definitely played the point in real life.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Bathgate played the point.What about Bobby Rousseau? Didn't he play the point too? Or is that my imagination? By the way, I remember Getzlaf playing the point at least early in his career, so I confirm that.I also confirm Kovalchuk.Kovalchuk is a pretty good pointman, even at the ATD level his shot makes him dangerous.

Also one undrafted around this range who did it.

According to this post from overpass, Doug Bentley also did it.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=749940

Yep. I've got those 2 playing on either side of Actual Defenseman Sprague Cleghorn. I wouldn't put the two of them out there as pointmen with no defenseman there (although it seems like Doug andac may have done exactly that at times), but I think my setup makes proper use of Doug's playmaking, and Kovalchuk's howitzer.

 

[Sturminator]

Kariya definitely was a regular at point on the Anaheim power play. Dunno about his other teams.

 

[Batis]

Anatoli Firsov could also play the point on the powerplay. I personally think that Firsov was more suited for the playmaking position along the left boards deeper in the zone which was his other main position on the powerplay in the available games. Here is the powerplay part of my video study of Firsov for some examples of his play at both positions.

So if we continue with his role on the powerplay it should be noted that Firsov played two different positions on the powerplay during these games. The first one as a playmaker on the left side along the boards and the second one as the left pointman. These were his main positions but at times he would play at the right boards or at the right point too. Here we have some examples of Firsovs powerplay performances. Starting with the playmaking role along the boards.

Great example of Firsovs play in this position. First he wins the faceoff and then he makes some very nice plays from the playmaking position along the left boards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VqPHBqdeqw&t=9m18s

Great powerplay shift from Firsov when he makes some good plays from the left boards and then later shifts to the right boards and makes another good play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlZdzko7DH0&t=74m37s Later in the same shift Firsov makes a nice powerplay assist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlZdzko7DH0&t=76m17s

First Firsov makes the play to gain the zone then he gets the puck on the left side and sets up some plays. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRRBwrw4Ze8&t=8m16s

Firsov makes a great play to setup XXX for a good chance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psibElYk5Gc&t=20m18s

Very good powerplay shift from Firsov. First he helps the Soviets to gain the zone then he makes some great plays. Especially the off the boards pass to Ragulin at around 41:26. XXX then makes a great save to deny Firsov from scoring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlZdzko7DH0&t=40m46s

Firsov fires a shot towards the american net and then he makes some plays. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR_2f6YEHes&t=9m27s

Firsov wins the faceoff to himself, turns in the corner and sets up his defenceman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR_2f6YEHes&t=14m3s

Another example of Firsovs playmaking from this position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEacUFeMJfc&t=26m0s

Lets now move on to some examples of Firsovs play from the point position.

Firsov builds up the attack by finding Kharlamov who can enter the zone. Then Firsov makes a nice pass which Maltsev deflects and the puck hits the crossbar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFE1Q-r0hI&t=104m51s

Here Firsov makes another nice deflection-pass which Petrov deflects towards the net but XXX makes a good save. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mLLsfVM8E&t=9m24s

Firsov makes some good plays from the point position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFE1Q-r0hI&t=112m35s

Firsov fires a rocket of a shot above the net. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFE1Q-r0hI&t=115m11s

Firsov clearly could play very well in both of these positions on the powerplay but I personally prefer him in the position along the boards. He just seemed far more comfortable there and he did create far more scoring opportunities from that position.

 

[overpass]

Some other forwards who played the point:

Milt Schmidt
Gordie Howe
Alex Delvecchio
Ed Litzenberger
Bill Barber
Rene Robert
Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Dale Hawerchuk

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

G, Dave Kerr

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Perhaps it's recency and Caps fan bias but you've forgotten the greatest one timer from the point in hockey history, Ovechkin.

I've never seen Ovi really play the point on PP, doesnt he play the left half wall? Usually he's firing from the hashmarks or creeping in down low. They usually do an umbrella tho, so maybe he's technically on the left point if it gets set up that way

 

[seventieslord]

I've never seen Ovi really play the point on PP, doesnt he play the left half wall? Usually he's firing from the hashmarks or creeping in down low. They usually do an umbrella tho, so maybe he's technically on the left point if it gets set up that way

I was gonna ask the same thing, but before I did I had to fact check myself and it seems the caps give very few PP minutes to their defensemen, so there are almost always 4 forwards out there.

 

[jarek]

I just realized this year's Regina Pats have achieved something quite trivial - there are perhaps a dozen ATD caliber forwards capable of playing the point on the powerplay, and we've somehow managed to acquire four of them, pretty much by accident - it was never something I was specifically looking for:

Evgeni Malkin
Phil Goyette
Brian Rolston
Bernie Nicholls

how many are there anyway? I can think of a few more:

Fred Stanfield
Brad Richards
Bernie Geoffrion
Max Bentley

and a few who were put there last year but I'm not actually sure did it in real life:

Paul Kariya
Wayne Gretzky
Ryan Getzlaf
Ilya Kovalchuk

in most cases, you know your own players better than I do, so who else is out there?

Andy Bathgate.

 

[MadArcand]

Whalers select Robert Svehla, D

 

[Dreakmur]

Orillia Terriers select J.P. Parise

 

[895]

I'm up right? I didn't get a PM

re: Ovechkin on the point

On paper the Caps top unit has looked like this

Johansson - Backstrom - Oshie
Ovechkin - Carlson

In practise, they use a kind of lopsided umbrella that looks like

Johansson -- Oshie
----------------Backstrom
Ovechkin------
--------------Carlson

Ovechkin usually hangs around the point until he sneaks down to the top of the circle for the one timer.

However, during the height of the Boudreau era, Ovechkin played a more traditional point. So I would say that he fully qualifies as a pointman.

 

[895]

I need to write a preamble because this is either the best or worst pick in ATD history coming up.

The whole basis of this ATD is that we can't compare absolute greatness right? Because then a guy like Gordie Howe probably isn't even a top 20 pick. We can only compare players in the context, so relative greatness.

The ATD covers all the eras and yet for all of our fine tooth combing of hockey history we neglect a very important part of it.

 

[895]

EHC Borussia Dortmund 04 proudly selects from Saskatchewan

A player who

Has 4 Olympic Gold and 1 Silver medal with Team Canada
Scored 18 goals and 51 points in only 26 Olympic games, securing the all time lead in Olympic goals and points
Scored 168 goals and 379 points in 276 games, Team Canada’s all time leader in goals and points.

and is widely considered to the greatest female hockey player of all time

Hayley Wickenheiser

 

[seventieslord]

I need to write a preamble because this is either the best or worst pick in ATD history coming up.

The whole basis of this ATD is that we can't compare absolute greatness right? Because then a guy like Gordie Howe probably isn't even a top 20 pick. We can only compare players in the context, so relative greatness.

The ATD covers all the eras and yet for all of our fine tooth combing of hockey history we neglect a very important part of it.

I'm excited to see this now. The only era that's really "neglected" right now (besides, IMHO, the original six) is pre-1900. If the guy you select is arguably the best forward, defenseman or goalie of his era, I know I'd be likely to be in favour of it.