ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

[Sturminator]

I would argue that having a defenseman on their natural side is even more important for bottom pairing guys as they are some of the weakest players in the league and need to be playing at their most comfortable. I also think it’s more important on the PK, so it would carry more weight if you’re planning on playing that particular guy on the PK.

Now if you know a LHS Dman regularly played the right side in real life, then I have absolutely no problem with putting them on the right side here.

Agreed. Handedness among the top-tier defensemen is often no big deal. You can confidently put Orr or Harvey on either side, for example, without an expected dropoff in comfort or production. The further down we go, though, the less versatile the players, and the more locked into their roles.

The rise of third scoring lines in the draft means more pressure than ever on bottom-pairing defensemen. Little attention was paid to #5/6 types back in the day, but roster depth plays an increasingly important role as the margins get thinner. Having a bottom-pairing defenseman out of his comfort zone can cost you these days.

 

[jarek]

Agreed. Handedness among the top-tier defensemen is often no big deal. You can confidently put Orr or Harvey on either side, for example, without an expected dropoff in comfort or production. The further down we go, though, the less versatile the players, and the more locked into their roles.

The rise of third scoring lines in the draft means more pressure than ever on bottom-pairing defensemen. Little attention was paid to #5/6 types back in the day, but roster depth plays an increasingly important role as the margins get thinner. Having a bottom-pairing defenseman out of his comfort zone can cost you these days.

Alright, then I'll just put Doug Mohns on the right side.

Surely nobody should have any issues with that. He even played a bit of right wing.

 

[Sturminator]

Of your bottom-pairing guys, Mohns definitely seems like the better-suited of the two to playing on his off-side.

 

[Iceman]

Agreed. Handedness among the top-tier defensemen is often no big deal. You can confidently put Orr or Harvey on either side, for example, without an expected dropoff in comfort or production. The further down we go, though, the less versatile the players, and the more locked into their roles.

The rise of third scoring lines in the draft means more pressure than ever on bottom-pairing defensemen. Little attention was paid to #5/6 types back in the day, but roster depth plays an increasingly important role as the margins get thinner. Having a bottom-pairing defenseman out of his comfort zone can cost you these days.

I agree but if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, you stated last year that if it's possible, have your two best defensemen anchor their own pairing? Which in other words mean that if they historically have played the same side you just give them their own partners.

 

[Sturminator]

I agree but if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, you stated last year that if it's possible, have your two best defensemen anchor their own pairing? Which in other words mean that if they historically have played the same side you just give them their own partners.

Actually, I'm normally in favor of stacking the top pairing with the two best guys. I tend to believe that teams should give the most ice time to their best players.

There are certainly cases where I'd advocate splitting the top-2 defensemen, and I once did it myself when I had Harvey and Suchy, but normally I like to see them together. Opinions seem to vary a lot on this subject.

 

[King Forsberg]

Actually, I'm normally in favor of stacking the top pairing with the two best guys. I tend to believe that teams should give the most ice time to their best players.

There are certainly cases where I'd advocate splitting the top-2 defensemen, and I once did it myself when I had Harvey and Suchy, but normally I like to see them together. Opinions seem to vary a lot on this subject.

I think it depends on the defenseman to be honest. If you have two skilled offensive d men then it may be better to have them on seperate pairings to have one on the ice for most of the game.

Since we're taking about it, what do you think of my situation?

Right now I have it like this:

Pospisil - MacInnis
Leetch - Wentworth
Beck - Numminen

 

[Sturminator]

I think it depends on the defenseman to be honest. If you have two skilled offensive d men then it may be better to have them on seperate pairings to have one on the ice for most of the game.

Since we're taking about it, what do you think of my situation?

Right now I have it like this:

Pospisil - MacInnis
Leetch - Wentworth
Beck - Numminen

There is some logic to splitting Leetch and MacInnis as ES, and Pospisil is fine on a top pairing, but I worry a bit that Leetch-Wentworth is pretty soft.

I dunno. MacInnis was great offensively, but he was actually a pretty conservative player at even strength, and his size/strength next to Leetch would be very useful. I kinda think:

Leetch - MacInnis
Pospisil - Wentworth

... makes the most sense. You've still got plenty of puck-moving on the second pairing because Pospisil was an excellent passer, and neither unit looks vulnerable to getting pushed around too much. Pospisil and MacInnis can cover the front of the net, while the smaller guys range out further in the defensive zone.

 

[Dreakmur]

Actually, I'm normally in favor of stacking the top pairing with the two best guys. I tend to believe that teams should give the most ice time to their best players.

There are certainly cases where I'd advocate splitting the top-2 defensemen, and I once did it myself when I had Harvey and Suchy, but normally I like to see them together. Opinions seem to vary a lot on this subject.

You don't have to play them together to give them the most ice time.

I have never understood why NHL coaches seem to insist on always have their 5/6 on the ice together. You need to rest the top guys - I get that - but why would you ever put the bottom guys out together? Rest #1 by having 2/5 out for a shift. Rest #2 by having 1/6 out.

 

[895]

Kris Draper

 

[Sturminator]

You don't have to play them together to give them the most ice time.

I have never understood why NHL coaches seem to insist on always have their 5/6 on the ice together. You need to rest the top guys - I get that - but why would you ever put the bottom guys out together? Rest #1 by having 2/5 out for a shift. Rest #2 by having 1/6 out.

I agree with you, and we're starting to see more of this put into practice in the ATD, with a lot of #5s pulling more ES ice time than #6s, for example. I used just this tactic while running BB's team back in 2013. Special teams time also generally assures that your top players will get the most ice time, but I still like to see stacked top pairings because of how many stacked 1st lines we see in this thing.

The ATD is not like the real world where some teams can end up with two top-5 defensemen together (like Pronger - MacInnis/Niedermayer}, and be able to field elite first pairings even with their top guys split up. First pairings here tend to need all the talent they can muster at even strength.

 

[Dreakmur]

Orillia Terriers select Eric Staal

 

[seventieslord]

Orillia Terriers select Eric Staal

How long before he, too, is considered better than Federko? they're about even in peak offense right now, both with very little help from top wingers. Federko has a very good record of producing in the playoffs but with little team success (very Turgeon-like). Staal's been a more impressive producer when in the playoffs, but that's only been two times. Can he shake the "bad team scorer" vibe? If you asked me a year ago, I'd have predicted no, but now I think he can and will.

 

[Iceman]

How long before he, too, is considered better than Federko? they're about even in peak offense right now, both with very little help from top wingers. Federko has a very good record of producing in the playoffs but with little team success (very Turgeon-like). Staal's been a more impressive producer when in the playoffs, but that's only been two times. Can he shake the "bad team scorer" vibe? If you asked me a year ago, I'd have predicted no, but now I think he can and will.

There might be another player or two that falls into this category, but some of them are more goal scoring oriented than pass first guys like Federko. Staal is the only guy still playing though.

 

[Voight]

Mel Bridgman: good pick, have looked at him in the past and gave him a passing glance last night when I went with Sutter. How much Left wing did he actually play? I read his bio and it mentions he did switch between LW and Centre but I think he was more a centre.
.

70's bio has him playing LW full time in 81 & 83 IIRC.

 

[King Forsberg]

There is some logic to splitting Leetch and MacInnis as ES, and Pospisil is fine on a top pairing, but I worry a bit that Leetch-Wentworth is pretty soft.
.

Hmmm I was always under the impression that Wentworth played a clean yet physical game.

Edit. Didn't realize I was up. Picking coming soon.

 

[King Forsberg]

Guess I'll draft a coach to lead my squad. I'll take someone who's won all there is to win.

Arkady Chernyshev

 

[Sturminator]

Hmmm I was always under the impression that Wentworth played a clean yet physical game.

Wentworth was physical, but I wouldn't call him a crease-clearer, you know? Just not that big a dude. Some smaller guys can be good at throwing body checks in open ice, but struggle a bit when asked to fight off forwards around the net. A good modern example might be Kasparaitis. I obviously never saw Wentworth play, but that's how his defensive game reads to me.

 

[MadArcand]

Whalers select Jean Pronovost, RW

 

[ResilientBeast]

I need a true utility forward so to finish off my forwards I'll go ahead and select Bob Bourne, F . He consistently killed 40% of his teams penalties for PK units that were often well above average and will do the same for the Maroons.

Good bio

 

[overpass]

Wentworth was physical, but I wouldn't call him a crease-clearer, you know? Just not that big a dude. Some smaller guys can be good at throwing body checks in open ice, but struggle a bit when asked to fight off forwards around the net. A good modern example might be Kasparaitis. I obviously never saw Wentworth play, but that's how his defensive game reads to me.

Yeah, something to consider is that Leetch had his best years playing with a big guy who was basically a crease-clearer.

 

[Dreakmur]

How long before he, too, is considered better than Federko? they're about even in peak offense right now, both with very little help from top wingers. Federko has a very good record of producing in the playoffs but with little team success (very Turgeon-like). Staal's been a more impressive producer when in the playoffs, but that's only been two times. Can he shake the "bad team scorer" vibe? If you asked me a year ago, I'd have predicted no, but now I think he can and will.

He didn't have the best vs. X scores remaining, but he was close. I chose him because he was easily his team's primary offensive catalyst. The few guy ahead of him in the vs. X scores were only their team's best scorer a handful of times. In a fourth line role, the odds are that they will be the ones counted on to create a lot of their own offense, so I thought it was important that they did that while they played.

 

[Sturminator]

So many sexy 3rd lines in the draft this year - one pleasant effect of contraction, I suppose. Third lines around the league have been getting progressively more appealing for some time now, and I think this year represents a new high-water mark. Excited to see the results of seventies' ES VsX study for bottom liners in the draft (coming soon, I hope...). A few of my favorites:

Kapustin - Roenick - Morris :: not unlike the second line of a previous champion. Tons of talent here.

Metz - Tkaczuk - Lemieux :: ugh... they would be just awful to play against.

Mayorov - Starshinov - Nevin :: 2/3rds of the classic Spartak line with an upgrade at RW. Love it.

Tremblay - Backstrom - Provost :: Are you a Habs fan, Ice?

Tikkanen - Lemaire - Middleton :: Really good two-way unit.

Harris - Bowie - Armstrong :: Maybe the best-conceived Bowie line we've seen yet.

Marshall - Carbonneau - Westfall :: A bear of a checking unit.

Dumart - Smith - Bauer :: Mercy...Not quite the Kraut line, but Hooley is damn good, himself. Probably the best of the bunch.

Benn - Frederickson - Amonte :: Nasty unit with frightening speed.

Holik - Keats - Ellis :: Very solid two-way line.

Nice work, kids. This is all very entertaining stuff.

 

[tony d]

Thanks sturm for your analysis of my checking line. I like the line as well. Metz, Tkaczuk and Lemieux is a checking line I'm proud to have put together. Lemieux can help with secondary scoring and I may play him on my 2nd power play.

 

[Dreakmur]

Thanks sturm for your analysis of my checking line. I like the line as well. Metz, Tkaczuk and Lemieux is a checking line I'm proud to have put together. Lemieux can help with secondary scoring and I may play him on my 2nd power play.

I don't really see how much Lemieux is going to help much as a scorer. His offense is mediocre, and he's not a ES specialist or anything.

I don't see how putting offensive guys in defensive roles is going to be overly effective. As discussed last draft, you can't completely change how a players gets used and think he's going to perform the same. Also, most offensive players score about 33% of their points on the PP. May as well take that away from the 3rd liners, right?

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Well, fifty picks ago, I had a three-name list for my last starting forward. I needed a right winger who could kill penalties and... well, that's about it, really. Being able to shadow the other team's top left wing was also desirable, and now that the dust has settled, I'm more than happy to choose...

Jim Roberts, RW/D

Killing up to 66% (!) of his team's penalties during a career that spanned sixteen years, Roberts won five Cups and shadowed the likes of Bobby Hull, Frank Mahovlich and even Bobby Orr during one memorable playoff battle. Being a swingman will also prove useful, as he can help spell off any injuries to my d-core.

Welcome Jimmy!