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ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

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ResilientBeast said:
See but Karlsson is being forced into the role of single handily carrying his team.

Last season Karlsson beat his teammate by 21 points and his 82 points he factored into 35.6% of his teams goals.

Last season Doughty was the 5th highest scorer on his team and factored into 22.86% of his teams goals.

Also just completely transpose Doughty to the Sens with no adjustment for anything and Doughty would still have the 5th more points on that team.
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Well this is all speculation at best. LA's coach would likely require Karlsson to sacrifice a lot of offense to play better defensively, and I'm not convinced he'd be a better player for it, simply because I'm not convinced he has the toolbox to be that elite two-way guy. He may still lead the team in scoring, but not by nearly as much as he does now.

If you throw Doughty on Ottawa without changing anything, I honestly believe they'd be a better team in the standings..
 
jarek said:
Well this is all speculation at best. LA's coach would likely require Karlsson to sacrifice a lot of offense to play better defensively, and I'm not convinced he'd be a better player for it, simply because I'm not convinced he has the toolbox to be that elite two-way guy. He may still lead the team in scoring, but not by nearly as much as he does now.

If you throw Doughty on Ottawa without changing anything, I honestly believe they'd be a better team in the standings..
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I'm confused by your argument? Look at the roster of the Sens, I can't imagine Doughty would improve that offence more so than Karlsson. Karlsson is an offensive catalyst and his teams offense is dependent on him.

Suggesting that Doughty would do the same is pure speculation, you yourself told me you can't give credit to things players "could've" done when we discussed Kovalchuk but you're willing to do so for Doughty
 
ResilientBeast said:
I'm confused by your argument? Look at the roster of the Sens, I can't imagine Doughty would improve that offence more so than Karlsson. Karlsson is an offensive catalyst and his teams offense is dependent on him.

Suggesting that Doughty would do the same is pure speculation, you yourself told me you can't give credit to things players "could've" done when we discussed Kovalchuk but you're willing to do so for Doughty
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I said the team would be better in the standings. I didn't say Doughty would drive Ottawa's offense the way Karlsson does. They may score less, but I think they'd give up WAY less.
 
jarek said:
I said the team would be better in the standings. I didn't say Doughty would drive Ottawa's offense the way Karlsson does. They may score less, but I think they'd give up WAY less.
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Again pure speculation, trade goalies and I bet Ottawa gives less goals than if you'd swapped Karlsson and Doughty. Again you're speculating about things these players could do.
 
ResilientBeast said:
Again pure speculation, trade goalies and I bet Ottawa gives less goals than if you'd swapped Karlsson and Doughty. Again you're speculating about things these players could do.
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Fair enough.

Anyway, Doughty vs Karlsson is such a polarizing debate and it really comes down to what you value more. Aside from their award recognition and offensive contributions, there's really no way to objectively say which is better and it just comes down to which style of play you prefer.
 
jarek said:
Fair enough.

Anyway, Doughty vs Karlsson is such a polarizing debate and it really comes down to what you value more. Aside from their award recognition and offensive contributions, there's really no way to objectively say which is better and it just comes down to which style of play you prefer.
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Try saying that on the main board, the Sens faithful will crucify you :laugh: :laugh:

jarek said:
VanI has been skipped in the past while online. I'm not really sure what's up with him honestly. :laugh:
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He's fan of like 6 different NHL teams, takes time to go thru all of those sub forums :laugh:
 
seventieslord said:
I understand that with Doughty and Karlsson you can go either way if judging them as current players, but as all-time players, 657+81+20 games played at a high/elite level is significantly better than 393+29+10. Karlsson would have to have a considerably higher peak to have more value than Doughty as an all-time player right now. One can easily argue his peak was higher, but significantly?
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This is a good point. Doughty's been elite since his second season. Karlsson since 2012.
 
Voight said:
Try saying that on the main board, the Sens faithful will crucify you :laugh: :laugh:
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I will say this: I won't argue against the fact that Karlsson is more important to his team's success than Doughty. Not necessarily for good reasons, but it's something.

He's fan of like 6 different NHL teams, takes time to go thru all of those sub forums :laugh:
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:laugh:
 
The Invincibles select Jean Ratelle, the alternate captain of Team Canada in the 1972 Summit Series, scoring 4 points while playing a defensive and penalty-killing role on the team. That year in the NHL he had scored 109 points in just 63 NHL games, a Rangers record until Jagr broke it in 2006. Interestingly, that year he wasn't a Hart trophy finalist (was 2 votes behind Esposito) but the NHL players voted for him and he won the Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) Award. Over an 11-year span from age 28 to 38, ending in 1978, Ratelle was 2nd in NHL points with 946 points in those 828 games, trailing only Esposito. After 10+ years as a Ranger, the 6'1 center and Brad Park were traded to Boston in a deal for Esposito, and then Ratelle played 6 more years as a Bruin, retiring with 1267 points in 1281 NHL games. He was six times a Lady Byng finalist, winning it one of those times in New York and another time in Boston. Ratelle was known for his face-off ability, playmaking, hockey sense, skating and defensive responsibility.

12256825_759579624148107_1804421611_n.jpg


Comments in his ATD bio from a teammate, an NHL coach and two GMs:
"Some people noticed Ratelle's effectiveness with the puck, but they didn't see what a great positional player he was. I very rarely saw an opposing center score a goal from the slot with Jean on the ice."

"Jean was terrific at picking passes off in front of our net."

"I knew he was a good player, but I had no idea how good he was until he joined our team. I always recognized his offensive ability but I hadn't realized that he was such an excellent defensive player, too."

"He is superb at faceoffs, does an awful lot of work on defence and passes like Beliveau."
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Dropping a name is the minimalist approach to all-time drafting. Is it the eventual endproduct of the "smart"phone age?
 
VanIslander said:
Dropping a name is the minimalist approach to all-time drafting. Is it the eventual endproduct of the "smart"phone age?
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Our pick came up at 1245am our time...I could have waited 8 hours and posted a little more In the am and held up the draft. Would you have preferred that??
 
VanIslander said:
Dropping a name is the minimalist approach to all-time drafting. Is it the eventual endproduct of the "smart"phone age?
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Or, you know, when you leave a list, you can provide the accompanying bio for each name at the same time.
 
markrander87 said:
Our pick came up at 1245am our time...I could have waited 8 hours and posted a little more In the am and held up the draft. Would you have preferred that??
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1. What's the hurry?
2. I would have enjoyed learning something about a pick.
3. Maybe you're the perfect customer for a "drop a name" smartphone draft!
 
VanIslander said:
Dropping a name is the minimalist approach to all-time drafting. Is it the eventual endproduct of the "smart"phone age?
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A link to the biography of Thompson, which I have partially made (along with Billy-shoe and Hawkey Town 18), is available in my "name dropping" post.I have added some quotes, but Thompson is one frustrating name to research.
 
BenchBrawl said:
A link to the biography of Thompson, which I have partially made (along with Billy-shoe and Hawkey Town 18), is available in my "name dropping" post.I have added some quotes, but Thompson is one frustrating name to research.
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I heavily considered him over Conacher, but it's hard to find much on him
 
ResilientBeast said:
I heavily considered him over Conacher, but it's hard to find much on him
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Few of my 100+ history books make any mention of Roy Conacher at all.

But one does. In 1939, Roy Conacher as a Bruin led the NHL in regular season goals then set the NHL record for Stanley Cup Finals goals with 5 goals, including the cup-winner from Shore and Cowley on a swift up-ice surge and shot past Broda, according to The Biggest Book of Hockey Trivia (2009). I recommend you get the book. Lots of great stuff in it.

53122999.jpg
 
VanIslander said:
Few of my 100+ history books make any mention of Roy Conacher at all.

But one does. In 1939, Roy Conacher as a Bruin led the NHL in regular season goals then set the NHL record for Stanley Cup Finals goals in the NHL with 5 goals, including the cup-winner from Shore and Cowley on a swift up-ice surge and shot past Broda, according to The Bigest Book of Hockey Trivia (2009). I recommend you get the book. Lots of great stuff in it.

53122999.jpg
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I have 5-10 newer additions to my collection that do, so I'll expand my bio from last year.
 
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