Prospect Info: At 16th Overall the Rangers Select Brennan Othmann

[RangersFan1994]

Othmann plays both sides. They can have him play RW on the 3rd line if they really want him on the team. Move up Gauthier (assuming he takes a step this year) and it wouldn't be out of the question.

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Chytil is probably dealt in the summer for cap reasons if they want to keep Strome.

Chytil I dont think will get that much of a raise especially since he has not done much to deserve it yet. Still only 22. Why the rush to trade him. If he is 25 sure then its time if he does not progress. He should have stayed a full year or 2 in the AHL like Anisimov did when he was drafted.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Chytil I dont think will get that much of a raise especially since he has not done much to deserve it yet. Still only 22. Why the rush to trade him. If he is 25 sure then its time if he does not progress. He should have stayed a full year or 2 in the AHL like Anisimov did when he was drafted.

Chytil is already under contract for this season and next season at 2.3m

 

[huerter]

Imagine trading a 22 year old with a 2.3m cap hit for the main purpose of shedding his salary when you have an 8 mil Mayfield on the roster. Thanks Gorts.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Imagine trading a 22 year old with a 2.3m cap hit for the main purpose of shedding his salary when you have an 8 mil Mayfield on the roster. Thanks Gorts.

Trouba is so much better than Mayfield. Mayfield on real playoff team is a 5th 6th at best. On the Islanders he is a 2ed pairing defenseman top 4 defenseman

 

[smoneil]

Othmann plays both sides. They can have him play RW on the 3rd line if they really want him on the team. Move up Gauthier (assuming he takes a step this year) and it wouldn't be out of the question.

20-93-15
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Chytil is probably dealt in the summer for cap reasons if they want to keep Strome.

I'm not getting into it again, because it's all been said, but you'd need to trade about 3 Chytils without taking any salary back in order to arrive at the cap space to sign Strome. If you want Strome on this roster moving forward, the only realistic way to do it is to find a way to move Kreider or Trouba, neither of which do I see happening as soon as this summer.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm not getting into it again, because it's all been said, but you'd need to trade about 3 Chytils without taking any salary back in order to arrive at the cap space to sign Strome. If you want Strome on this roster moving forward, the only realistic way to do it is to find a way to move Kreider or Trouba, neither of which do I see happening as soon as this summer.

Replacing Chytil and Nemeth with ELCs frees up 3m which covers the raise for Strome and Kakko's bridge deal. Just an exmple below:

 

[huerter]

Trouba is so much better than Mayfield. Mayfield on real playoff team is a 5th 6th at best. On the Islanders he is a 2ed pairing defenseman top 4 defenseman

Let me try to follow. Mayfield is a 2nd pairing Dman but only because he plays for a fake team like the Islanders (looks up their recent history). Which is entirely different than the role Trouba plays (looks up Rangers depth chart) and of course, comparing the Islanders to the Rangers is spitting in our face (looks up recent Rangers history).

Oh, and for the record, I hate using silly "top 4 D" "top 6 forward" type labels but I'll humor you.

 

[UnSandvich]

Imagine starting off with "Imagine trading a 22 year old with a 2.3m cap hit for the main purpose of shedding his salary" and then turning the post into one about Trouba rather than Strome.

 

[smoneil]

Replacing Chytil and Nemeth with ELCs frees up 3m which covers the raise for Strome and Kakko's bridge deal. Just an exmple below:

View attachment 492324

I'll just say that I think you are a little optimistic about what Blais and Gauthier will get (especially if you have the latter penciled into a top 6 role), and after Hughes' megadeal, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Kakko takes that little, even on a bridge. I also don't think they go with a green kid like Wall as the backup, but I don't see them spending that much more on that spot even with a veteran, so that's beside the point. It also leaves the team in a bad spot for the following summer, when they will need to re-sign both Miller and Laf, and will only have ~4 or 5m total to do that. And you can bet that Montreal is following our cap situation carefully for that summer (half their fans already have him penciled into their 2023-24 lineup).

 

[SA16]

I'll just say that I think you are a little optimistic about what Blais and Gauthier will get (especially if you have the latter penciled into a top 6 role), and after Hughes' megadeal, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Kakko takes that little, even on a bridge. I also don't think they go with a green kid like Wall as the backup, but I don't see them spending that much more on that spot even with a veteran, so that's beside the point. It also leaves the team in a bad spot for the following summer, when they will need to re-sign both Miller and Laf, and will only have ~4 or 5m total to do that. And you can bet that Montreal is following our cap situation carefully for that summer (half their fans already have him penciled into their 2023-24 lineup).

Yes having an ELC type backup goalie with zero NHL experience seems like an extremely bad idea given all the injuries Igor has already had

 

[bhamill]

Weird. Thought this was an Othmann thread.

 

[jay from jersey]

Let me try to follow. Mayfield is a 2nd pairing Dman but only because he plays for a fake team like the Islanders (looks up their recent history). Which is entirely different than the role Trouba plays (looks up Rangers depth chart) and of course, comparing the Islanders to the Rangers is spitting in our face (looks up recent Rangers history).

Oh, and for the record, I hate using silly "top 4 D" "top 6 forward" type labels but I'll humor you.

Trouba is 100% more talented then mayfield. They both focus on defense 1st and they are both physical and can throw big hits. That’s pretty much where the similarities stop.
Trouba is much better with the puck. He’s a better passer, a bigger threat to join the rush on offense, and Trouba also has a better shot.
Overall he’s just more talented in every facet of the game.
Add in the fact that he’s become an important mentor/leader and is instrumental in helping both Miller and fox. He’s basically like their security blanket.
Trouba takes a ton of hard minutes so Fox doesn’t get gassed or injured from being overplayed.
And miller has leaned on Trouba heavily since he’s come up and they were paired together.
Trouba has bailed him out a lot, ( less this season). And has depended on Trouba for help in most likely every facet of defensive play.
If Trouba wasn’t millers partner, there a good chance he doesn’t last a whole year with NYR without being sent down. He’s been critical for his development. Miller playing a full first season was very important to his development. It’s healed him weather the storm and get more comfortable at this level. He’s probably not the player he is right now if he’s sent to hartford mid-season last year,, Any 2nd grader could see that plain as daylight.
Man you have been salty about Trouba from day 1, it’s probably killing you that since we traded for him, all he’s done has gotten better and become a big part of the team on and off the ice.
You would probably still talk the same nonsense if he was making 6.5-7 mill per year.
As far as overpaid players go, Trouba is hardly the most egregious.
I wager he’s at least a ranger for 2 more seasons after this when his NMC changes. It’s possible he could waive and be traded prior, but Drury/Gallant/ and the rest of the fan base and free world, except for a select few realize how important Trouba is and how he’s going to be tough to replace as 2 RD.
Thinking Schneider is going to get called up at 21-22 and walk right in the spot vacated by Trouba and play as good or better is a giant mistake. It’s also very naive.
That’s why there are people that understand The importance of breaking Schneider in on 3rd pair while Fox and Trouba are still top 2 RD.
It insulates Schneider for a bit with easier match ups and minutes and he gets to watch the guy he’s going to eventually take over for a lot. He’ll see the things he’s expected to do once he steps in to fill that role...
Schneider is/will defiantly be ready for NHL 3rd pair duty by the start of next season, but expecting him to come up and stick him as top 4 D in Trouba’s place and trade Trouba because of cap is setting Schneider up to fail. It’s just not realistic or smart.

 

[jay from jersey]

I'll just say that I think you are a little optimistic about what Blais and Gauthier will get (especially if you have the latter penciled into a top 6 role), and after Hughes' megadeal, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Kakko takes that little, even on a bridge. I also don't think they go with a green kid like Wall as the backup, but I don't see them spending that much more on that spot even with a veteran, so that's beside the point. It also leaves the team in a bad spot for the following summer, when they will need to re-sign both Miller and Laf, and will only have ~4 or 5m total to do that. And you can bet that Montreal is following our cap situation carefully for that summer (half their fans already have him penciled into their 2023-24 lineup).

I think they would do Kreidermans scenario, and worry about finding cap next year. Yea it basically just delays the problem, but you get another full year of growth out of the Kids, you get to keep Trouba and Kreider in the fold. Both would be more appealing to teams to trade for them with another year off each of their deals.
They would still both have NMC clauses though, so their value of getting anything in return will certainly be affected negatively.
Where there’s a will there’s a way.
I’m sure if they want to keep strome bad enough or even add/trade for a different center that makes similar money long term, they will figure out some kind of financial sorcery to create some cap room to kick the can down the road for another season.

 

[jay from jersey]

Don't be surprised if Othmann spends 2022-23 on the Rangers. He doesn't have much left to learn in the OHL past this season, and they are already heavily involved in his development, focusing on his strength and powerskating similarly to Lias Andersson in 2017-18 when they assigned him a personal coach.

probably not the best idea, but I can’t see why it couldn’t be in the realm of possibility.
They must hold Othmann in high regard to be thinking this way.
Also being tight up against the cap, I’m sure they’d love to add a versatile kid who can play RW/LW and fill the net on an ELC contract.
A lot is going to depend on how Othmann performs in the offseason and at next camp. That’s where the decision will be made. I don’t want to rush him, I’m sure no one here does, but If he’s lights out and scoring, it wouldn’t shock me if they put him on the opening night roster next year.
If he keeps going the way he has this season so far, has a solid offseason workouts/training, And then turns heads with his impressive play at camp, it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see him out there at the start of next season.
At that point in time, The rangers wouldn’t wouldn’t have too many options to add wingers being so tight up against the cap,
That would be a really unique opportunity for the smart young kid.
I’m sure he’d love that. All interviews with him I’ve heard he always states playing in the nhl has been his dream for a long time.....etc etc

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

probably not the best idea, but I can’t see why it could be in the realm of possibility.
They must hold Othmann in high regard to be thinking this way.
Also being tight up against the cap, I’m sure they’d love to add a versatile kid who can play RW/LW and fill the net on an ELC contract.
A lot is going to depend on how Othmann performs in the offseason and at next camp. That’s where the decision will be made. I don’t want to rush him, I’m sure no one here does, but If he’s lights out and scoring, it wouldn’t shock me if they put him on the opening night roster next year.
If he keeps going the way he has this season so far, has a solid offseason workouts/training, And then turns heads with his impressive play at camp, it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see him out there at the start of next season.
At that point in time, The rangers wouldn’t wouldn’t have too many options to add wingers being so tight up against the cap,
That would be a really unique opportunity for the smart young kid.
I’m sure he’d love that. All interviews with him I’ve heard he always states playing in the nhl has been his dream for a long time.....etc etc

Yeah, I never said I agree with it

It would be classic Rangers though to have a kid on the team, buried on the 4th line playing 7 minutes a night just so he doesn't have to spend another year in juniors.

 

[jay from jersey]

Yeah, I never said I agree with it

It would be classic Rangers though to have a kid on the team, buried on the 4th line playing 7 minutes a night just so he doesn't have to spend another year in juniors.

I don’t know, I actually have a bit more faith in Gallant. Especially with the style of play he likes, and how Othmann plays the game. I actually think he’d do the right thing.
If Diamond Dave was still behind the bench, forget it.
Othmann could come up and have an all-star camp and score 10 goals in the preseason. But as soon as game 1 comes around he would 100% be deployed on 4th line with 2 grinders and limited offensive game for sure..

It’s obviously a super long shot that Othmann Starts will the big club next season, but like many other things, it can’t be 100% ruled out either.
It sucks that Cuylle had to go back to juniors this season. He looked pretty good in his handful of games with the pack last season.
My guess is he would have loved to play a full year in Hartford this year.
Development wise, I’m not sure what would have been the best option for him.
I’m leaning towards hartford. Bigger, Stronger, faster players, 1 step down from the show.
But he’s had a great year this season so far too. Maybe that extra Junior season was exactly what he needed.
I’m just glad he’s been on a heater so far this season. Hopefully he keeps it up. He also got a starting top 12 spot on fwd Canada it appears. That should also help his development/ confidence.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don’t know, I actually have a bit more faith in Gallant. Especially with the style of play he likes, and how Othmann plays the game. I actually think he’d do the right thing.
If Diamond Dave was still behind the bench, forget it.
Othmann could come up and have an all-star camp and score 10 goals in the preseason. But as soon as game 1 comes around he would 100% be deployed on 4th line with 2 grinders and limited offensive game for sure..

It’s obviously a super long shot that Othmann Starts will the big club next season, but like many other things, it can’t be 100% ruled out either.
It sucks that Cuylle had to go back to juniors this season. He looked pretty good in his handful of games with the pack last season.
My guess is he would have loved to play a full year in Hartford this year.
Development wise, I’m not sure what would have been the best option for him.
I’m leaning towards hartford. Bigger, Stronger, faster players, 1 step down from the show.
But he’s had a great year this season so far too. Maybe that extra Junior season was exactly what he needed.
I’m just glad he’s been on a heater so far this season. Hopefully he keeps it up. He also got a starting top 12 spot on fwd Canada it appears. That should also help his development/ confidence.

It's amazing what a season of pro hockey can do for a kid in juniors. Both Othmann and Cuylle are reaping the rewards of that. I wish our ECHL team was actually playing last season so we could have had Vierling get some games in as well.

Othmann spending a full summer in NY and working out with Prentiss, Kreider and other Rangers will be huge for his development. If he plays another season in Flint, so be it but imagine how dominant he would be next year...

 

[smoneil]

I think they would do Kreidermans scenario, and worry about finding cap next year. Yea it basically just delays the problem, but you get another full year of growth out of the Kids, you get to keep Trouba and Kreider in the fold. Both would be more appealing to teams to trade for them with another year off each of their deals.
They would still both have NMC clauses though, so their value of getting anything in return will certainly be affected negatively.
Where there’s a will there’s a way.
I’m sure if they want to keep strome bad enough or even add/trade for a different center that makes similar money long term, they will figure out some kind of financial sorcery to create some cap room to kick the can down the road for another season.

I don’t know, I actually have a bit more faith in Gallant. Especially with the style of play he likes, and how Othmann plays the game. I actually think he’d do the right thing.
If Diamond Dave was still behind the bench, forget it.
Othmann could come up and have an all-star camp and score 10 goals in the preseason. But as soon as game 1 comes around he would 100% be deployed on 4th line with 2 grinders and limited offensive game for sure..

Re: the bold--Based on how they handled the Henrik situation and the Buch situation, I really doubt that they take the "aw f*** it we'll worry about it later" approach with the salary cap. They have been really careful about, and proactive about, cap issues in recent years. Plus, TBL just offered a crash course on what can happen to teams who assume that one of their NMC players will be sure to waive. If not for the Kucherov issue AND the shortened season, they would have been screwed and had to move several guys they didn't want to move.

As for the second post, I don't dislike Gallant at all. I want to be clear about that from the start. He's using the best players he has at his disposal to win now. But in terms of getting minutes to young players? He's as bad as Quinn was. He's also burying guys on one line, and Laf in particular is playing nearly a minute less per game than he did last season, and has a lower production rate to go with it. If a kid isn't going to be a staple in the top 6 and one of the power play units, then the kid would be best served by getting top line minutes at a lower level. If Othmann impresses, give him his 9 games and then send him back down. And while they are at it, they should send Laf down to Hartford for a 15-20 game stretch.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Re: the bold--Based on how they handled the Henrik situation and the Buch situation, I really doubt that they take the "aw f*** it we'll worry about it later" approach with the salary cap. They have been really careful about, and proactive about, cap issues in recent years. Plus, TBL just offered a crash course on what can happen to teams who assume that one of their NMC players will be sure to waive. If not for the Kucherov issue AND the shortened season, they would have been screwed and had to move several guys they didn't want to move.

As for the second post, I don't dislike Gallant at all. I want to be clear about that from the start. He's using the best players he has at his disposal to win now. But in terms of getting minutes to young players? He's as bad as Quinn was. He's also burying guys on one line, and Laf in particular is playing nearly a minute less per game than he did last season, and has a lower production rate to go with it. If a kid isn't going to be a staple in the top 6 and one of the power play units, then the kid would be best served by getting top line minutes at a lower level. If Othmann impresses, give him his 9 games and then send him back down. And while they are at it, they should send Laf down to Hartford for a 15-20 game stretch.

Gallant isn't burying kids in the same manner that quinn was though.
I dislike how little ice time laf is getting too, but its different. Laf is being asked to do 3 things, play hard, play defense, and then make offensive plays. If you get creative, and lose the puck, make sure you're still doing 1/2 and you keep getting your ice time.
When you stop doing 1/2 and cant do 3, then you lose ice time.
Quinn told his kids, do 1/2 and then if you ever lose the puck you lose your ice time. Quinn stiffled offensive creativity, Gallant says play within the system, but do what you're good at. And theres a huge gap between those two concepts.
Its why howden was quinn's golden boy, he never did anything offensively creative, but did 1/2 with "effort".

From what we've also been hearing, Gallant explains to a kid why they're being sat, whereas Quinn the kid had to figure it out himself. Asking a 19 year old to diagnose their own play without some level of instruction is absolutely infuriating. Its like being in an argument and being told "you know why im angry"

 

[smoneil]

Gallant isn't burying kids in the same manner that quinn was though.
I dislike how little ice time laf is getting too, but its different. Laf is being asked to do 3 things, play hard, play defense, and then make offensive plays. If you get creative, and lose the puck, make sure you're still doing 1/2 and you keep getting your ice time.
When you stop doing 1/2 and cant do 3, then you lose ice time.
Quinn told his kids, do 1/2 and then if you ever lose the puck you lose your ice time. Quinn stiffled offensive creativity, Gallant says play within the system, but do what you're good at. And theres a huge gap between those two concepts.
Its why howden was quinn's golden boy, he never did anything offensively creative, but did 1/2 with "effort".

From what we've also been hearing, Gallant explains to a kid why they're being sat, whereas Quinn the kid had to figure it out himself. Asking a 19 year old to diagnose their own play without some level of instruction is absolutely infuriating. Its like being in an argument and being told "you know why im angry"

I would agree with all of this. But the difference between Laf being in the AHL vs being in the NHL right now is that when he screws up here, it becomes "now sit and watch how these other guys do it," whereas in the AHL it would be more like "now go out for your next shift and work on what I just told you." Not to mention regular PP1 time to build the confidence and time to work on learning how to PK. Coaching is really important, but it can't do much if the kid doesn't get minutes (and again--not knocking Gallant. He's got a mandate to win games and he's using players in a way that he thinks will give him that best chance to do so--if the minutes for Laf aren't there, they should send him to a level where he will get those minutes--that's exactly what Edmonton did with Draisaitl, and half a season back in the minors plus a few AHL games worked wonders for his game).

 

[IDvsEGO]

I would agree with all of this. But the difference between Laf being in the AHL vs being in the NHL right now is that when he screws up here, it becomes "now sit and watch how these other guys do it," whereas in the AHL it would be more like "now go out for your next shift and work on what I just told you." Not to mention regular PP1 time to build the confidence and time to work on learning how to PK. Coaching is really important, but it can't do much if the kid doesn't get minutes (and again--not knocking Gallant. He's got a mandate to win games and he's using players in a way that he thinks will give him that best chance to do so--if the minutes for Laf aren't there, they should send him to a level where he will get those minutes--that's exactly what Edmonton did with Draisaitl, and half a season back in the minors plus a few AHL games worked wonders for his game).

I'm not sure he's eligible for the AHL (someone with better knowledge can correct me). I also think its a little different for a 1oa vs a 4th overall.
You want to talk about alienating a top kid, that seems like it would 100% do it. Chytil/laf/kakko are the only kid who we've drafted and played for us under the age of 20 in the past 10 years who we haven't alienated and has asked off the team.
We lost andersson/kratsov losing laf would essentially say, the organization cannot be trusted to develop players.

 

[smoneil]

I'm not sure he's eligible for the AHL (someone with better knowledge can correct me). I also think its a little different for a 1oa vs a 4th overall.
You want to talk about alienating a top kid, that seems like it would 100% do it. Chytil/laf/kakko are the only kid who we've drafted and played for us under the age of 20 in the past 10 years who we haven't alienated and has asked off the team.
We lost andersson/kratsov losing laf would essentially say, the organization cannot be trusted to develop players.

All of the kids you mentioned (other than Krav) should have been playing somewhere else during their teen years. The pivot to Drury as GM would have been an ideal time to course correct, sit the kids down and say "look, we want you to be on our top line in a year or two, and for that to happen, we need to get you some minutes. Here's our plan for you this year..." It doesn't even need to be for all that long. Tell him that you want to send him down for 20 games to build back some confidence, and get some work on the PP/PK. Give him a list of things to work on. Then bring him back up and see where he's at. It's not like we can't get what he's contributing now from one of the spare 4th liners on the roster, and ideally, he'd come back as more of a difference maker.

Frankly, he should have been sent down in February, when he only had 1 goal and no assists in his first 15 games, and his minutes started getting chopped. It would be nice to see an exception made to the 9-games juniors rule for top 3 picks. Like, if the team and the player agree, a top 3 pick could be sent to the team's AHL franchise rather than back to junior hockey for the year.

Also, I would assume that Laf would fall under the same rule that allowed Schneider to play in the AHL this season. If playing a certain number of AHL games allows a player to bypass the age rule, I can't imagine that they would force a player to go to juniors after having played that same number of NHL games.

Also also, Laf seems to have his head on a bit straighter than Krav and/or Lias.

Final also--if our choices are between screwing up a kid's development by playing them scrap minutes or sending them down to develop them properly and risk upsetting them, I'd go with option 2 every time. At least with that option, you have the best chance to come out of it with an impact player.

 

[IDvsEGO]

All of the kids you mentioned (other than Krav) should have been playing somewhere else during their teen years. The pivot to Drury as GM would have been an ideal time to course correct, sit the kids down and say "look, we want you to be on our top line in a year or two, and for that to happen, we need to get you some minutes. Here's our plan for you this year..." It doesn't even need to be for all that long. Tell him that you want to send him down for 20 games to build back some confidence, and get some work on the PP/PK. Give him a list of things to work on. Then bring him back up and see where he's at. It's not like we can't get what he's contributing now from one of the spare 4th liners on the roster, and ideally, he'd come back as more of a difference maker.

Frankly, he should have been sent down in February, when he only had 1 goal and no assists in his first 15 games, and his minutes started getting chopped. It would be nice to see an exception made to the 9-games juniors rule for top 3 picks. Like, if the team and the player agree, a top 3 pick could be sent to the team's AHL franchise rather than back to junior hockey for the year.

Also, I would assume that Laf would fall under the same rule that allowed Schneider to play in the AHL this season. If playing a certain number of AHL games allows a player to bypass the age rule, I can't imagine that they would force a player to go to juniors after having played that same number of NHL games.

Also also, Laf seems to have his head on a bit straighter than Krav and/or Lias.

Final also--if our choices are between screwing up a kid's development by playing them scrap minutes or sending them down to develop them properly and risk upsetting them, I'd go with option 2 every time. At least with that option, you have the best chance to come out of it with an impact player.

Except laf hasn’t played any ahl games. Schneider played in the ahl when the ohl was shut down.

 

[Thirty One]

Trouba is so much better than Mayfield.

How is this a thing?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Except laf hasn’t played any ahl games. Schneider played in the ahl when the ohl was shut down.

*WHL

Of course in Lafrenière's case that wasn't possible because his league (QMJHL) was up and running. Even if we wanted to, it wasn't even an option. This is probably the first time ever that CHL-NHL agreement has hindered us.