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Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

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Uninstaaled said:
He played the same role for the Canes last year who were absolutely a contender and actually produced at a higher rate in the playoffs than he did in the regular season (58 point pace vs the 51 that he actually put up.) I don't think he's really accumulated enough of a sample size in post season play to say this either way though so its really a moot point.

FWIW, Trocheck is tied for second on the team (with Fox who is a wagon) in production against playoff teams this year (19 points, which is better than I expected.)

Fox and Miller(!) are both out producing Panarin vs playoff competition. If Chytil had the games played (he missed time) he would probably be too and that would put Artemi 7th on our roster.

Not good enough for mr 11.6.
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I've been saying that bread has been underperforming for years and gotten flack for it, so nothing new there. But going back to Vinny and your reference the last year, I thought he was pretty good against the bruins, but basically invisible in the NYR series. I guess based on his historical norms I anticipate more of the ranger series Vinny as opposed to the bruins series Vinny, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.
 
ReddestRum said:
I think this fanbase is the only fanbase on this site that will collectively shit on the one guy guaranteed to lead the team in points since he got here. The first 80+ point player on the team in a decade. Funny thing is, I see the same people from the Laf thread here that continuously praise our 1OA for absolutely nothing at all, doing some of the most criticizing. Like we have the depth on this team to criticize and nitpick our top production guys. Can't wait for us to lose him and have the team be magically better without him.
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It’s a salary cap league. Find me another fan base with a $10mm+ player that is one dimensional, can’t seem to find chemistry with almost anyone, nor make any of his linemates better. Bet they’re not happy either. It’s not a crime to wonder if a soon to be 32 old fwd is now on a fast decline after 2 awesome seasons. We’ve seen it countless times in the NHL, even before the league was this young and fast.
 
UFAs fading with the NYR is so etched in stone I’m honestly shocked anyone is surprised, or hopeful at this point.

You take a man who has spent the last 10-15 years of their life really grinding to achieve something. Fighting for a key role in college / juniors. Hoping to get drafted. Working on their body and skills every off season. Hoping to impress in camp. Making the team. Carving out a role. Finding a way to fit in. Finding a way produce. Producing. Being given more responsibility. Becoming a star. Popping up on NHL social media. Making the all star game. Making more money. Becoming a millionaire. Taking care of family. Getting married. Having kids.

Then at this point the player signs a fully guaranteed contract that makes them financially set for life. You hold a big press conference announcing them as a key player. Verbally or in practice guarantee them a role, ice time, PP time. The player has realistically achieved more or less everything they set out to achieve . The player knows they get their bag either way. Do they want to win? Win a Cup? Of course but they also want to enjoy their life, enjoy their family, enjoy their money.

In short they start to lose their edge. They look down and see 23 year olds with a foothold on the ladder across the league. At some point human nature kicks in. It always does. Oh and then you also get the added bonus of natural physical aging making it harder and harder to keep pace.

UFA likely retirement contracts are doomed to fail. They are massively misaligned with the performance the team should want to incent.

As NYR fans we have seen it time and time and time and time again. Yet on 7/1, without fail, “this time is different.” I get it from a fan perspective. That’s part of being a fan. With the org making the same mistakes every year, the only conclusion I can draw is they don’t give a shit. They are either too arrogant, too short sighted, too stupid, or simply optimizing the system for a different goal (good team, ticket sales, playoff revenue) than I am (Cup).
 
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HatTrick Swayze said:
UFAs fading with the NYR is so etched in stone I’m honestly shocked anyone is surprised, or hopeful at this point.

You take a man who has spent the last 10-15 years of their life really grinding to achieve something. Fighting for a key role in college / juniors. Hoping to get drafted. Working on their body and skills every off season. Hoping to impress in camp. Making the team. Carving out a role. Finding a way to fit in. Finding a way produce. Producing. Being given more responsibility. Becoming a star. Popping up on NHL social media. Making the all star game. Making more money. Becoming a millionaire. Taking care of family. Getting married. Having kids.

Then at this point the player signs a fully guaranteed contract that makes them financially set for life. You hold a big press conference announcing them as a key player. Verbally or in practice guarantee them a role, ice time, PP time. The player has realistically achieved more or less everything they set out to achieve . The player knows they get their bag either way. Do they want to win? Win a Cup? Of course but they also want to enjoy their life, enjoy their family, enjoy their money.

In short they start to lose their edge. They look down and see 23 year olds with a foothold on the ladder across the league. At some point human nature kicks in. It always does. Oh and then you also get the added bonus of natural physical aging making it harder and harder to keep pace.

UFA likely retirement contracts are doomed to fail. They are massively misaligned with the performance the team should want to incent.

As NYR fans we have seen it time and time and time and time again. Yet on 7/1, without fail, “this time is different.” I get it from a fan perspective. That’s part of being a fan. With the org making the same mistakes every year, the only conclusion I can draw is they don’t give a shit. They are either too arrogant, too short sighted, too stupid, or simply optimizing the system for a different goal (good team, ticket sales, playoff revenue) than I am (Cup).
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Lol this site is literally deranged when it comes to their treatment of Panarin, he's been one of the greatest players in franchise history ever since he came here. Just last year he had his career high in points and had more assists than any Rangers forward ever.

Pre NYR career: 0.9 PPG
NYR career: 1.27 PPG
 
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Imo Panarin has gotten caught up in the NYC bougie lifestyle.

You lose an edge. He’s not training like he used to. His points have taken off because of PP production

The issue is we’ve seen what he’s capable of and what he has to offer. He’s not close to that level. He’s arguably 2-3 notches below it. My hope is he turn it on. We can’t win without him imo
 
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He has 31 even strength points. That’s not good enough.

He should be much closer to Pastrnak 44pts and Kucherov 43pts.
 
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I don't understand the need to impugn Panarin and his motives. There's no evidence he's not putting in the work to maintain or improve his skills or effort. He's at the age where players tend to decline, it is just the way it goes. The hope was that he would be able to stave off the decline a while longer, that hasn't happened. He's still a very good player and the best forward on the team he's just not the all-around force at 5v5 he was in columbus and his first season here.
 
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EdJovanovski said:
Lol this site is literally deranged when it comes to their treatment of Panarin, he's been one of the greatest players in franchise history ever since he came here. Just last year he had his career high in points and had more assists than any Rangers forward ever.

Pre NYR career: 0.9 PPG
NYR career: 1.27 PPG
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You put way too much emphasis on statistics, particularly offensive statistics.

PA Parenteau had 110 points in 128 games between 2011-2013. 78 of them were EV. He was viewed as a borderline player at virtually every point in his short career because his game was so abysmally unbalanced and he was such a liability in every thing but production.

Obviously Bread’s production is multiple tiers above Parenteau, but the criticism is essentially the same. If Panarin was a 75 point player instead of a 95 point player he would be viewed as a one dimensional liability, almost universally. Because he’s in the rarified air of 90+ point players he gets the superstar tag instead. But if he was a 70 point player who played the game exactly the same way (and made 6.5M) he would be viewed much more harshly (despite costing over 5M less).

Points are one thing. They’re certainly important. Impact is another thing, and Bread’s impact peaked in his first season here and has been trending in reverse since. Value is another portion of the equation. If you’re going to be the second highest paid player in the world, putting up 90+ points with no semblance of play driving or off-puck impact isn’t good enough. Bread making 8M? Fine. Bread making 12M? Not good. There are literally at least 2 dozen players who easily have larger and more consistent game to game impacts for their teams who are making less than Panarin. Some of them pile up just as many or more points as well. Some slightly less but with a much larger positive overall impact. Either way, he simply isn’t good enough to justify his cap hit and his game is trending in the wrong direction. Pointing to raw point totals doesn’t counter that argument effectively.
 
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excaliber said:
Not with the linemates he's playing with. Good try though.
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Making excuses for a $11.6M player? The guy who had 71 Even-Strength Points in 69 games with RYAN STROME AND JESPR FAST?

Please... stop.

Be objective... nice try though.
 
you know why linemates didn't matter in 2019-2020? Because Panarin was on the top of his game.

He can't hit the net and he doesn't skate. This is the end result. Until he fixes his shot and fixes his motor, it will be more of the same.... it's that simple...

I'll repeat it... THE DIFFERENCE IS HIS SHOT AND HIS MOTOR.

Passing lanes are no longer there because HE STOPS SKATING. WHEN HE GLIDES/STOPS with the puck HE'S EASY TO DEFEND/CONTAIN. He's no longer relentless on the forecheck/puck..... because he stops skating.. Motor issue is a big part conditioning IMO. There's a difference between 'better than a normal human' and 'elite athlete'. He's not at his best and I truly believe it's money/lifestyle as the culprit

He still finds A LOT of shooting opportunities/chances but misses the net. He was sniping in 2019-2020. What happened? He's 31 and can't shoot anymore? That's the age where people forget how to shoot?

Fix 2 things. Get pre-covid Panarin.
 
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duhmetreE said:
you know why linemates didn't matter in 2019-2020? Because Panarin was on the top of his game.

He can't hit the net and he doesn't skate. This is the end result. Until he fixes his shot and fixes his motor, it will be more of the same.... it's that simple...

I'll repeat it... THE DIFFERENCE IS HIS SHOT AND HIS MOTOR.

Passing lanes are no longer there because HE STOPS SKATING. WHEN HE GLIDES/STOPS with the puck HE'S EASY TO DEFEND/CONTAIN. He's no longer relentless on the forecheck/puck..... because he stops skating.. Motor issue is conditioning IMO. There's a difference between 'better than a normal human' and 'elite athlete'.

He still finds A LOT of shooting opportunities/chances but misses the net. He was sniping in 2019-2020. What happened?

Fix 2 things. Get pre-covid Panarin.
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It’s not just missing the net. It’s reluctance to shoot when the opportunity is there, and even more reluctance to try to create (and take) shooting opportunities for himself. Those two things also make him immensely easier to defend against because the whole league knows that on any given touch, there’s a 99.7% chance Panarin is looking to pass. He’s like an NFL team that abandons the run game.
 
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In how many ways does Panarin impact the game?

Elite goal scorer?
Elite even strength point producer?
Elite PP point producer?
Elite play driver?
Reliable 200 ft forward?
Hard on the foreckeck?
Physical play?
Great defensive forward?
Great on draws?
Significantly elevates linemates?
 
CTRanger said:
In how many ways does Panarin impact the game?

Elite goal scorer?
Elite even strength point producer?
Elite PP point producer?
Elite play driver?
Reliable 200 ft forward?
Hard on the foreckeck?
Physical play?
Great defensive forward?
Great on draws?
Significantly elevates linemates?
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What year?

He potentially fills 8 of those, when he’s on
 
Klaus Mikaelson said:
It’s not just missing the net. It’s reluctance to shoot when the opportunity is there, and even more reluctance to try to create (and take) shooting opportunities for himself. Those two things also make him immensely easier to defend against because the whole league knows that on any given touch, there’s a 99.7% chance Panarin is looking to pass. He’s like an NFL team that abandons the run game.
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It's a completely different player.. Playing between the dots. Sniping. Attacking.



I miss him.
 
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Panarin definitely isnt the player he was during his first two seasons here. But few will replicate that. If he puts up 90-95 points and is a PPG player in the playoffs, I can more than live with that. And I personally think his contract is a huge hinderance. But he earned most of it at least. Its not like a Wade Redden situation.
 
duhmetreE said:
you know why linemates didn't matter in 2019-2020? Because Panarin was on the top of his game.

He can't hit the net and he doesn't skate. This is the end result. Until he fixes his shot and fixes his motor, it will be more of the same.... it's that simple...

I'll repeat it... THE DIFFERENCE IS HIS SHOT AND HIS MOTOR.

Passing lanes are no longer there because HE STOPS SKATING. WHEN HE GLIDES/STOPS with the puck HE'S EASY TO DEFEND/CONTAIN. He's no longer relentless on the forecheck/puck..... because he stops skating.. Motor issue is a big part conditioning IMO. There's a difference between 'better than a normal human' and 'elite athlete'. He's not at his best and I truly believe it's money/lifestyle as the culprit

He still finds A LOT of shooting opportunities/chances but misses the net. He was sniping in 2019-2020. What happened? He's 31 and can't shoot anymore? That's the age where people forget how to shoot?

Fix 2 things. Get pre-covid Panarin.
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The shot won’t disappear rapidly with age. However, the skating and motor will. When things that used to be easy suddenly become a struggle, you lose confidence. That means you shoot less and second guess your abilities. I think that’s what’s happening w/ Bread.

For the Rangers to be a legit contender, I feel either the old Panarin needs to resurface or he needs to be traded so we can use his cap to address the holes we have. Unfortunately, I don’t see an area in between unless the kids take a sudden gigantic leap while on bridge deals.
 
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NYR94 said:
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Bread to Tampa for Killorn (expiring), Cole (expiring) and Hagel.

Next year Hagel stays on the books at 1.5M and we have 10M freed up in cap space. Cole and Killorn contribute a lot for the playoffs.

Could go after Meier in UFA at less than 10M.

Bread loves his Florida bros. :sarcasm::sarcasm:

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Laf - Chytil - Hagel
Killorn - Trochek - Kravtsov
Vesey - Goodrow - Cullye

Then move Krav for a 6LD at the draft and sign Meier at 8.5M.

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Laf - Chytil - Meier
Hagel - Trochek - Otthman
Vesey - Goodrow - Cullye
 
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