Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[bleedblue94]

Here's what you said about panarin: "It's like you didn't see the defense or lack of the Panthers have. No one has ever claimed that he can't completely slice up the weaker defensive teams in the league."

I said panarin was around a ppg against top 3 teams in each division and was a couple points off. Over .8ppg against the best 11 teams in the league. That's not a drastic difference when you consider the top teams in the league have better defenses and better goalies. He's not just feasting on the bottom of the league.

The Rangers against the top 3 teams in each division is 10-4-4 = 24 points out of a possible 36 points. 24/36 is a .667 point percentage.

So they are 10 and 8 against those teams. Can fluff that all you want with the sol point but they have won 10 of 18 games. That's not earth shattering.

Please stop trying to manipulate the panarin conversation. It's getting tiring with the selective quotes and constant subtle adjustments to the wording and info. Please stop.

 

[Lgrsean]

So they are 10 and 8 against those teams. Can fluff that all you want with the sol point but they have won 10 of 18 games. That's not earth shattering.

Please stop trying to manipulate the panarin conversation. It's getting tiring with the selective quotes and constant subtle adjustments to the wording and info. Please stop.

If you have any quotes to suggest I'm changing anything in my wording or argument, or even crazier, some stats to back up your false claims, I'm sure that would add to the conversation.

But, real simple for you since you don't like stats or quotes.

The rangers are collecting points at a higher rate against the top teams than they are against the rest of the league. You were arguing the opposite.

While Bread is slightly below a point per game in a small sample size against the top teams in the NHL, it's not a drastic difference in his production on the whole season. It would not suggest that his production drops against top teams anymore than any other forward in the league because the top teams in the league generally have better defenses and goaltending than the rest of the league. He isn't just feasting on the bottom of the league.

 

[bleedblue94]

If you have any quotes to suggest I'm changing anything in my wording or argument, or even crazier, some stats to back up your false claims, I'm sure that would add to the conversation.

But, real simple for you since you don't like stats or quotes.

The rangers are collecting points at a higher rate against the top teams than they are against the rest of the league. You were arguing the opposite.

While Bread is slightly below a point per game in a small sample size against the top teams in the NHL, it's not a drastic difference in his production on the whole season. It would not suggest that his production drops against top teams anymore than any other forward in the league because the top teams in the league generally have better defenses and goaltending than the rest of the league. He isn't just feasting on the bottom of the league.

No, I'm not interested in rereading a synopsis of the same nonsense and ignorant defense of what we have watched this season with this team. I'm sorry for that. According the theme of everything you say statistically it's a roundup to something better than it actually is. I am not going back and reposting it all. You think panarin has been good against good teams and a borderline ppg player which is not accurate. I am not going to rehash the numbers and perspectives. We don't agree. Numbers actually do not support your claims even though you try to say I don't like numbers. I'm good at this point. Let's move on

 

[excaliber]

Interesting.................No complaints about Panarin last night. He was shutout but could have easily had a goal and up to 5 assists if he played on a line with some finishers. That was one of his best games all year.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Interesting.................No complaints about Panarin last night. He was shutout but could have easily had a goal and up to 5 assists if he played on a line with some finishers. That was one of his best games all year.

Debatable.

 

[JohnC]

“A line with some finishers”

He’s being centered by the best finisher on the team. I didn’t even think he played a bad game last night, but let’s not be ridiculous here.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

At the all star break and he’s one point better than 1 p/pg. not good enough

 

[leetch99]

Debatable.

Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a nut .

 

[McRanger92]

At the all star break and he’s one point better than 1 p/pg. not good enough

Something tells me this undeserved All-Star appearances isnt going to help change his game away from "Looking Good Hockey"

 

[will1066]

Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a nut .

I'm counting on Trocheck will revive his game away from being Panarin's center.

 

[leetch99]

I think they will evaluate Trocheck's play more for his playoff performance then regular season . I am thinking he finds another level which I also expect to see from a few more guys that are having lack lustre seasons . One can at least hope it unfolds like that . A couple of low cost additions and a cheap 6-7th Dman will make us a formidable hockey club if we are willing to go hard on the forecheck and get the PP clicking again which is not going to happen unless they change it up and show a new look as all the clubs are onto the set plays as it is .

 

[bleedblue94]

I think they will evaluate Trocheck's play more for his playoff performance then regular season . I am thinking he finds another level which I also expect to see from a few more guys that are having lack lustre seasons . One can at least hope it unfolds like that . A couple of low cost additions and a cheap 6-7th Dman will make us a formidable hockey club if we are willing to go hard on the forecheck and get the PP clicking again which is not going to happen unless they change it up and show a new look as all the clubs are onto the set plays as it is .

Trocheck has 16 career points in 33 playoff games. Not the guy is would expect to significantly elevate offensively and with his defensive struggles this year he can't even really be used as a matchup guy. It's the same issue we saw in the playoffs last year for the canes when they played nyr.

 

[mas0764]

Trocheck has 16 career points in 33 playoff games. Not the guy is would expect to significantly elevate offensively and with his defensive struggles this year he can't even really be used as a matchup guy. It's the same issue we saw in the playoffs last year for the canes when they played nyr.

Yeah I actually expect Trocheck’s output to decrease come playoff time. This point pace for Trocheck is like career best and I don’t expect it to continue.

 

[bleedblue94]

Yeah I actually expect Trocheck’s output to decrease come playoff time. This point pace for Trocheck is like career best and I don’t expect it to continue.

He was better for the canes in reg season games I saw last year than he was for them in the playoffs. He's not a bad player, he's just being asked to play the wrong role here and he's getting paid for the wrong role. I've said that since the summer...

 

[ReddestRum]

I think this fanbase is the only fanbase on this site that will collectively shit on the one guy guaranteed to lead the team in points since he got here. The first 80+ point player on the team in a decade. Funny thing is, I see the same people from the Laf thread here that continuously praise our 1OA for absolutely nothing at all, doing some of the most criticizing. Like we have the depth on this team to criticize and nitpick our top production guys. Can't wait for us to lose him and have the team be magically better without him.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think this fanbase is the only fanbase on this site that will collectively shit on the one guy guaranteed to lead the team in points since he got here. The first 80+ point player on the team in a decade. Funny thing is, I see the same people from the Laf thread here that continuously praise our 1OA for absolutely nothing at all, doing some of the most criticizing. Like we have the depth on this team to criticize and nitpick our top production guys. Can't wait for us to lose him and have the team be magically better without him.

He’s only got 2 more points than Zibanejad

 

[Deleted member 23124]

He was better for the canes in reg season games I saw last year than he was for them in the playoffs. He's not a bad player, he's just being asked to play the wrong role here and he's getting paid for the wrong role. I've said that since the summer...

That's the Ranger way.

 

[ReddestRum]

He’s only got 2 more points than Zibanejad

And? Last time I checked we're 3rd in the metro, and top 10 in the league. Every player has their ups and downs (Like a certain someone we've both talked about before). Bread is one of those guys where I tend to give leeway in the way he plays, simply because you need that kind of risk/reward playmaker flash on this team.

 

[McRanger92]

And? Last time I checked we're 3rd in the metro, and top 10 in the league. Every player has their ups and downs (Like a certain someone we've both talked about before). Bread is one of those guys where I tend to give leeway in the way he plays, simply because you need that kind of risk/reward playmaker flash on this team.

He's barely outproducing the most complete 3 zone player on the team, all while playing 0 defensive hockey of his own and throwing our lines into a blender because no one gels with him. This coming off a playoff where he barely showed up for any meaningful stretch, and rightfully drew the ire of the front office. Being 3rd in the Metro & 10th in the league is below where this roster should be and Panarin's inconsistency and Gallant's coaching of him are main reasons why.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

He was better for the canes in reg season games I saw last year than he was for them in the playoffs. He's not a bad player, he's just being asked to play the wrong role here and he's getting paid for the wrong role. I've said that since the summer...

I think fans are too hard on Tro. Everyone makes it sound like he's an overpaid third liner.

He is in the top 50 point producers at the center position

So while maybe he isnt some elite second line center, he is in fact a true #2 center based on stats alone

Fans just have crazy expectations of every single player.. He is right where he should be and any combo of Zib/Tro/Chytl down the middle is good enough if they stay healthy

 

[GAGLine]

And? Last time I checked we're 3rd in the metro, and top 10 in the league. Every player has their ups and downs (Like a certain someone we've both talked about before). Bread is one of those guys where I tend to give leeway in the way he plays, simply because you need that kind of risk/reward playmaker flash on this team.

He has 50 points in 49 games, doesn't play defense and turns the puck over too much. Do you think that's worth 11.6 mil per year?

Even if you want to just look at points, look at his totals from the last 3 years. His first year here he was great, absolutely worth his contract. The next 2 years weren't as good, but he still put up well more than 1 point per game. This year is his worst as a Ranger and it isn't close.

At what point do you recognize that he isn't living up to his contract?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He was better for the canes in reg season games I saw last year than he was for them in the playoffs. He's not a bad player, he's just being asked to play the wrong role here and he's getting paid for the wrong role. I've said that since the summer...

He played the same role for the Canes last year who were absolutely a contender and actually produced at a higher rate in the playoffs than he did in the regular season (58 point pace vs the 51 that he actually put up.) I don't think he's really accumulated enough of a sample size in post season play to say this either way though so its really a moot point.

FWIW, Trocheck is tied for second on the team (with Fox who is a wagon) in production against playoff teams this year (19 points, which is better than I expected.)

Fox and Miller(!) are both out producing Panarin vs playoff competition. If Chytil had the games played (he missed time) he would probably be too and that would put Artemi 7th on our roster.

Not good enough for mr 11.6.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I think they will evaluate Trocheck's play more for his playoff performance then regular season . I am thinking he finds another level which I also expect to see from a few more guys that are having lack lustre seasons . One can at least hope it unfolds like that . A couple of low cost additions and a cheap 6-7th Dman will make us a formidable hockey club if we are willing to go hard on the forecheck and get the PP clicking again which is not going to happen unless they change it up and show a new look as all the clubs are onto the set plays as it is .

There it is... If the deadline was today, they'd just be uprooting players to ruin their week. The deadline is meant for finishing touches/going overkill, not "fixing" things... last season it worked against all odds... this season, 3 goals as opposed to 2 won't win the CSF. Unless they can up the ante A LOT, ,nothing should happen.

 

[Peltz]

He has 50 points in 49 games, doesn't play defense and turns the puck over too much. Do you think that's worth 11.6 mil per year?

Even if you want to just look at points, look at his totals from the last 3 years. His first year here he was great, absolutely worth his contract. The next 2 years weren't as good, but he still put up well more than 1 point per game. This year is his worst as a Ranger and it isn't close.

At what point do you recognize that he isn't living up to his contract?

Last year, his point totals were propped up by a lethal power play unit that has since gone cold. That's not making excuses for him - I thought his 5v5 play was actually worse last year than this year.

But I see the PP as the main reason for additional drop-off in his production. Basically, teams have scouted it out and figured out how to close off the cross ice passes. The failure to adjust and capitalize on chances as often is why it's been pedestrian.

I actually like him on the same line as Zib and I think they could still break out this spring to put up big numbers together. Mika march has been a thing for 3 seasons now where he's able to turn on another gear.

I hope that's the case this year too and he drags Panarin along for the ride.

 

[bleedblue94]

I think fans are too hard on Tro. Everyone makes it sound like he's an overpaid third liner.

He is in the top 50 point producers at the center position

So while maybe he isnt some elite second line center, he is in fact a true #2 center based on stats alone

Fans just have crazy expectations of every single player.. He is right where he should be and any combo of Zib/Tro/Chytl down the middle is good enough if they stay healthy

He better be, he's getting pp1 time and played most of the season with what is supposed to be a top 10 winger in the league. Strome managed the same and now look at him.