Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[LokiDog]

Really? He played awesome with Kane and I don't see Cam Atkinson complaining about their line pairing, He played well with Copp last year. He played well with Stromme. Could it be the rest of his linemates were or are shit?

Considering he was the same ugly turnover machine with Copp and his brilliance with Strome equally faded by mid last season (latest) it could just be that he was better when he was young and hungry to prove himself and became an overpaid ass wipe?

 

[Raspewtin]

Considering he was the same ugly turnover machine with Copp and his brilliance with Strome equally faded by mid last season (latest) it could just be that he was better when he was young and hungry to prove himself and became an overpaid ass wipe?

meh. Panarin got a big rejuvenation when Copp started to center him. I think there was legit something there until he got hurt.

 

[McRanger92]

We can argue about development and cap space and line combos all we want but the biggest issue is that were currently paying an 8 million dollar winger 11.6 million

 

[SA16]

We can argue about development and cap space and line combos all we want but the biggest issue is that were currently paying an 8 million dollar winger 11.6 million

That's not a big deal. That's how free agency works. If you never overpay anyone then you never sign anyone and you just end up with unused cap space.

 

[duhmetreE]

Blues fans/media turned on RO'R last season. He showed up in the Playoffs.

There's nothing to say this will happen but if he produces in the Playoffs, all is forgotten.

He's capable.

 

[bleedblue94]

Tro has worse tunnel vision than Julien Gauthier, the guy just skates straight into defenders and loses the puck. He never passes, biggest puck hog I’ve ever seen. He just gets the puck and skates straight into the middle and either runs into the defensemen or takes a stupid shot that’s blocked by the defenseman or he misses the net. He kills all offense produced by that line, Panarin is still setting up good plays but Trocheck is too dumb to make anything of them.

I’d say Trocheck is our biggest problem after Trouba & Gallant.

your expectations of trocheck are the real issue with him. i said all summer while people railed on me that he is a great 3c on a contender, and that is still true. you are complaining that a player is being cast in the wrong place in the lineup and had the wrong expectations put on him. everyone away from nyr questioned that deal (the term and dollar combo, should have gotten one but not both) but nyr fans loved it because "he is better than strome." he has been miscast here and was being asked to compliment and make up for panarin's deficiencies at 5v5, which is ridiculous. now they are stuck with limited flexibility both in roster construction and cap long term. it was a mistake when the contract was signed based on the role they wanted him to play and it is simply just playing out as such. vinny is vinny and it isnt his fault people want him to be more than he is at 28 or 29 years old.

 

[McRanger92]

That's not a big deal. That's how free agency works. If you never overpay anyone then you never sign anyone and you just end up with unused cap space.

It's a big deal when the player was once earning his contract and now isnt. Combined that with Covid stunting the economic growth of the league and it's even worse

 

[bleedblue94]

Considering he was the same ugly turnover machine with Copp and his brilliance with Strome equally faded by mid last season (latest) it could just be that he was better when he was young and hungry to prove himself and became an overpaid ass wipe?

AND pssst, injury...

There has been a change to him since the injury, he still avoids the house and by doing so makes his forced passes easier and easier for defenses to pick off. same thing I've been saying for over a year...

Particularly when he’s had around 15 different combinations to get him going and the only one that’s ever worked involves a guy who is now viewed as a cap dump for the team he just signed for.

I will laugh my ass off if nyr trades for strome this summer at 50% retained just to try to save panarin ha.

Would much prefer dealing panarin to the ducks to open up cap space and flexibility here though...

 

[McRanger92]

your expectations of trocheck are the real issue with him. i said all summer while people railed on me that he is a great 3c on a contender, and that is still true. you are complaining that a player is being cast in the wrong place in the lineup and had the wrong expectations put on him. everyone away from nyr questioned that deal (the term and dollar combo, should have gotten one but not both) but nyr fans loved it because "he is better than strome." he has been miscast here and was being asked to compliment and make up for panarin's deficiencies at 5v5, which is ridiculous. now they are stuck with limited flexibility both in roster construction and cap long term. it was a mistake when the contract was signed based on the role they wanted him to play and it is simply just playing out as such. vinny is vinny and it isnt his fault people want him to be more than he is at 28 or 29 years old.

I still dont really have an issue with the contract because he fills and important role and it wont be an albatross in a year or 2 whenever the cap jumps. He also is significantly better than Strome. The Rangers never would've had to do this if they didn't whiff on the Andersson pick and trading for Howden. Both were guys they surely had penciled in as reliable defensive guys who could play in the top 6 as their ceiling. Thanks Bobrov!

 

[will1066]

AND pssst, injury...

There has been a change to him since the injury, he still avoids the house and by doing so makes his forced passes easier and easier for defenses to pick off. same thing I've been saying for over a year...


I will laugh my ass off if nyr trades for strome this summer at 50% retained just to try to save panarin ha.

Would much prefer dealing panarin to the ducks to open up cap space and flexibility here though...

He has a NMC, but playing with Strome again just might be enticing enough for him. Pad those stats! They can spend the rest of their playing days with each other in sunny southern California.

 

[EdJovanovski]

your expectations of trocheck are the real issue with him. i said all summer while people railed on me that he is a great 3c on a contender, and that is still true. you are complaining that a player is being cast in the wrong place in the lineup and had the wrong expectations put on him. everyone away from nyr questioned that deal (the term and dollar combo, should have gotten one but not both) but nyr fans loved it because "he is better than strome." he has been miscast here and was being asked to compliment and make up for panarin's deficiencies at 5v5, which is ridiculous. now they are stuck with limited flexibility both in roster construction and cap long term. it was a mistake when the contract was signed based on the role they wanted him to play and it is simply just playing out as such. vinny is vinny and it isnt his fault people want him to be more than he is at 28 or 29 years old.

What makes him a great 3C? His defensive analytics are horrible too

 

[bleedblue94]

What makes him a great 3C? His defensive analytics are horrible too

you dont think that has to do with playing with panarin and his style of game? hockey is the ultimate team sport, analytics pinned to a single player in a team sport are silly without context. remember how bad pionk's analytics were here and then he goes to a good jets team and his numbers are terrific?

 

[bleedblue94]

He has a NMC, but playing with Strome again just might be enticing enough for him. Pad those stats! They can spend the rest of their playing days with each other in sunny southern California.

the ducks can trade for panarin and bob, and accumilate more assets for taking those contracts. it would actually allow them to move gibson, let dostal become the starter with bob backing up, and add some wing depth to support mctavish and zegras. it would be all about clauses and what nyr and flo are giving to get out of the contracts, in both cases the teams trading the players would be gaining invaluable cap flexibility. panarin isn't changing who he is, so if people are waiting around to see that player again that would drive the net and dart in and out of traffic I think you will be waiting quite awhile. the cap space would be massive for this team...

 

[bleedblue94]

I still dont really have an issue with the contract because he fills and important role and it wont be an albatross in a year or 2 whenever the cap jumps. He also is significantly better than Strome. The Rangers never would've had to do this if they didn't whiff on the Andersson pick and trading for Howden. Both were guys they surely had penciled in as reliable defensive guys who could play in the top 6 as their ceiling. Thanks Bobrov!

jesus who cares about anderson and howden. let it go. it is over. the org has made many moves since and a lot of them would be different based on different circumstances. you deal with what is in front of you.

saying vinny is okay here bc he is better than strome is the exact issue. SO WHAT. tyler myers is better than harpur but that doesnt mean it is a good move to add him. this is just more of the same old pandering to not face the fact that a mistake is a mistake. "oh it isnt that bad" does not mean it is good. we want good and great out of our team, we dont want "better than strome"

 

[McRanger92]

jesus who cares about anderson and howden. let it go. it is over. the org has made many moves since and a lot of them would be different based on different circumstances. you deal with what is in front of you.

saying vinny is okay here bc he is better than strome is the exact issue. SO WHAT. tyler myers is better than harpur but that doesnt mean it is a good move to add him. this is just more of the same old pandering to not face the fact that a mistake is a mistake. "oh it isnt that bad" does not mean it is good. we want good and great out of our team, we dont want "better than strome"

I was just being facetious about Andersson and Howden. All I'm saying is Trocheck and his contract are not what's holding the Rangers back from reaching their potential.

 

[duhmetreE]

What makes him a great 3C? His defensive analytics are horrible too

Turns out, coaching matters.

 

[EdJovanovski]

you dont think that has to do with playing with panarin and his style of game? hockey is the ultimate team sport, analytics pinned to a single player in a team sport are silly without context. remember how bad pionk's analytics were here and then he goes to a good jets team and his numbers are terrific?

Krav is playing with Panarin too and his defensive analytics are 91st percentile in the NHL

 

[bleedblue94]

Krav is playing with Panarin too and his defensive analytics are 91st percentile in the NHL

Great?

Sample size?

Matchups?

You think Kravtsov isnt being protected on deployments regardless what time he is playing on? probably part of the reason he is never on zibs line.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

meh. Panarin got a big rejuvenation when Copp started to center him. I think there was legit something there until he got hurt.

He looked great the first month of this season too.

He's been more or less toxic on the ice since. I'd say its motivation/between the ears for him.

 

[bleedblue94]

I was just being facetious about Andersson and Howden. All I'm saying is Trocheck and his contract are not what's holding the Rangers back from reaching their potential.

they absolutely are a contributing factor. that contract took up all of the wiggle room they had for the next couple years for any meaningful changes that aren't rentals UNLESS they manage to trade out a core piece with a core contract, and if they did who could it even be right now (it isn't trouba (yet) so save that one). that contract boxed them in and it was a gamble bc if the pairing worked with panarin then they figured they had the zib/kreid, trocheck/panarin pairs set and everything else was a juggling act. They committed themselves to this group for two years barring something insane happening. They could read cap friendly just as well as the rest of us.

He looked great the first month of this season too.

He's been more or less toxic on the ice since. I'd say its motivation/between the ears for him.

It is between the ears for him, but making the second highest cap hit in the league his play this season (and last) is unacceptable

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It is between the ears for him, but making the second highest cap hit in the league his play this season (and last) is unacceptable

I don't disagree.

 

[McRanger92]

they absolutely are a contributing factor. that contract took up all of the wiggle room they had for the next couple years for any meaningful changes that aren't rentals UNLESS they manage to trade out a core piece with a core contract, and if they did who could it even be right now (it isn't trouba (yet) so save that one). that contract boxed them in and it was a gamble bc if the pairing worked with panarin then they figured they had the zib/kreid, trocheck/panarin pairs set and everything else was a juggling act. They committed themselves to this group for two years barring something insane happening. They could read cap friendly just as well as the rest of us.


It is between the ears for him, but making the second highest cap hit in the league his play this season (and last) is unacceptable

They could also simply try to play Chytil with Panarin and have 3 good lines. Trocheck also protects them from a PK/defense standpoint if they are forced to trade or buyout Goodrow. They were boxed in no matter what they did as long as Panarin & Trouba are immovable.

 

[LokiDog]

the ducks can trade for panarin and bob, and accumilate more assets for taking those contracts. it would actually allow them to move gibson, let dostal become the starter with bob backing up, and add some wing depth to support mctavish and zegras. it would be all about clauses and what nyr and flo are giving to get out of the contracts, in both cases the teams trading the players would be gaining invaluable cap flexibility. panarin isn't changing who he is, so if people are waiting around to see that player again that would drive the net and dart in and out of traffic I think you will be waiting quite awhile. the cap space would be massive for this team...

Panarin for Silfverberg, Comtois, Kulikov.

Comtois can be re-signed as bottom six big body or flipped at the draft. Silfverberg has one year beyond this one. Kulikov is a good #6 rental.

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Laf - Chytil - Krav
Comtois - Troch - Silfverberg
Vesey - Goodrow - Gauthier
Lindy - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Kulikov - Schneids

 

[bleedblue94]

They could also simply try to play Chytil with Panarin and have 3 good lines. Trocheck also protects them from a PK/defense standpoint if they are forced to trade or buyout Goodrow. They were boxed in no matter what they did as long as Panarin & Trouba are immovable.

You could find a 3c without paying 5+ mil. Trocheck is paid as a 2c, not a 3c. That's my entire issue. I don't hate trocheck. I hate that he is paid and cast as something that he is not. He is a great 3c making 2c money. It's like trouba getting paid top pair money to be a 2nd pair d man...

 

[jerseyjinx94]

You could find a 3c without paying 5+ mil. Trocheck is paid as a 2c, not a 3c. That's my entire issue. I don't hate trocheck. I hate that he is paid and cast as something that he is not. He is a great 3c making 2c money. It's like trouba getting paid top pair money to be a 2nd pair d man...

$5.6M isn’t really “2C money.” 2C money is more like 7, 7.5. At least a good one. He’s paid like a 2/3C tweener