bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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So a 2c is paid 1-1.5m less per year than a point per game center that matches up against other teams top lines in Mika? Ha
Player Discussion Artemi Panarin
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ReddestRum
Sad even when winning
- Dec 19, 2013
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EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
How many center UFAs have signed for under $6m who you’d prefer over Trocheck?
True look at the Copp and Strome contracts and production
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,750
- 22,377
He was good last night, but it's not about the points. He's a very talented player who plays more at even strength than any other forward on the team and gets tons of PP time. He's going to get his points. But if you want to argue points, look at his point totals from the last 3 years and tell me how this season compares. He's having his worst year as a Ranger. That's not even up for debate. It's a fact.
Last night he didn't turn the puck over because he wasn't forcing plays that weren't there. I still want to seem him go to the net more, but this is a good start. Let's see if he can keep it up.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,737
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I don’t think they work on offensive development. They just fall back on platitudes like “the NHL is not a developmental league.”
I don’t buy it. Four straight top 10 picks all had character flaws such that they didn’t work hard enough like Rantanen and MacKinnon to develop themselves? Baloney.
I will say, calling scoreboard after 3 amazing seasons by Panarin seems a little misplaced.
Lets be clear the only top 10 pick who "didnt work hard enough" is andersson.
Laf has flaws in his game that he needs to improve but he's not a finished product by any means.
Kakko has improved every season he's been here.
Kratsov looks like an NHL player now and you can see the top talent in his game. Yeah he wasnt good on the 4th line because he's not a 4th line guy.
The NHL isnt a developmental league, a team developing can choose to do that but a team that just went to the conference finals typically doesn't. The rangers somehow went through a rebuild and managed to hire a coach who had absolutely no interest in developing players. For as much as gallant infuriates me as a coach and his stubbornness and his constant reusing the same line combos, he's far better than quinn about letting a kid earn their time. Kakko makes a mistake, sits a shift and then is back out the rest of the game. Laf has a bad game, he sits for a game, and then is right back out there.
- Jan 18, 2012
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bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
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Who said we needed a ufa center? Team has/had assets to trade, other centers were available and were traded, OR sometimes you just need to stay patient for the right add/opportunity instead of just making a move bc he's better than strome...
I didn’t say anything about the Rangers. I’m talking about what he gets paid. You said Trocheck was a 3C being paid like a 2c. I think he’s being paid fairly for what he brings on the ice, especially when used correctly.
He’s just outside the top 50 in points among centers playing with all new teammates and he’s hit more posts than anyone on the team. he kills penalties and is solid defensively and on the dot.
bleedblue94
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You asked how many UFA centers like him have signed for under 6 million. I basically responded and said there was no need to sign a UFA center. I don't know what your arguing with me about. You keep trying to change the argument to make an argument but you're literally not even addressing what I'm saying. What I said is they didn't have to sign a UFA center this summer and they could have been patient and found other options that didn't include a UFA or Vinny
And to your other point in the locked thread panarin is not a ppg player against playoff teams. You're just trying to argue to argue right now.
I’m not changing any argument. I responded to you complaining about trocheck and what he’s paid. I think the rangers went out this offseason after nearly making the finals and improved their center depth with the best option they could afford at a fair AAV and now have the best center depth they’ve had in a long time. If you think they should have gone with a riskier option than trocheck, or that trocheck is overpaid, or not a 2c, that’s fine. I disagree.
Breads got 13 points in 16 games against top 3 teams in each division.
bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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So not a ppg, got it...
Also at the time of the Vinny signing I said they boxed themselves in with no meaningful roster flexibility for the foreseeable future and married themselves to this core and group. I don't like that mix.
Yea man. I’m pretty sure I said around or about a ppg against playoff teams bc you were complaining about his production against top teams. Do you really get it? He’s been productive against top teams.
The Rangers were coming off a season they nearly made the finals and were losing their 2c. It was too big of a risk to go into the season with a downgrade at C. Trocheck is an upgrade with a fair AAV.
bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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A 67 point pace against playoff teams isn't what I expect from the player with the 2nd highest cap hit in the league, make no mention of what that breaks down to for actual 5v5 production. If you're okay with that then I can't help you...
Equally you keep looking at "Vinny is an upgrade" nonsense. As I said earlier, Tyler Myers is an upgrade on harpur, it doesn't mean it's the right move to improve the d6 slot. Not everything is as simple as you're trying to make it.
I don't know if you could help anyone with anything, but he's 2 points off a ppg pace, which is around where he's at for the season. I'm sure most players score less against playoff teams. Feel free to break down his points by even strength and 5v5 production.
Ant trocheck is an upgrade on anyone we had at C last year except for Mika and was a good signing. If you don't like him, his contract, whatever, i'm happy to disagree with you on that. Losing our 2C after being 2 wins from the finals and not replacing him with a reliable option would have been stupid.
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
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@Lgrsean
Okay, you are right with everything you say, including tha 10 points in 13 games puts him "2 points off a ppg pace." But in the real world even the 10pts in 13 games being a 67ppg pace drops significantly if you remove the Minnesota game 5 into the season and suddenly it drops to a 49ppg pace. I'm not in the market to eliminate games from sample sizes but from that game on against those top 3 division teams he has 5 points in 9 games against such teams which is a 45ppg pace. All of these numbers took another drop tonight with another ineffective game against a good team.
Btw hell of a job by panarin on this game winner. 3 on 3 is cover your own man and he just tried to pass the guy off to... no one. What a liability against good teams.
Okay, you are right with everything you say, including tha 10 points in 13 games puts him "2 points off a ppg pace." But in the real world even the 10pts in 13 games being a 67ppg pace drops significantly if you remove the Minnesota game 5 into the season and suddenly it drops to a 49ppg pace. I'm not in the market to eliminate games from sample sizes but from that game on against those top 3 division teams he has 5 points in 9 games against such teams which is a 45ppg pace. All of these numbers took another drop tonight with another ineffective game against a good team.
Btw hell of a job by panarin on this game winner. 3 on 3 is cover your own man and he just tried to pass the guy off to... no one. What a liability against good teams.
Another no show against a quality team.
You said: “I want him and this team to beat the upper teams in this league so that they can actually want a cup, I don't care that they occasionally beat up on non-playoff teams”
I took a rough look at his game log and said he was around a ppg against the top 3 teams in each division and was off by 2 points. And looked at our schedule and saw that we have a strong record against those teams.
You can try to twist this into whatever you want. Bottom line is that the Rangers are beating "the upper teams in this league" and Bread isn't getting an unusually low percentage of his points in those games. You were wrong. I don't care if you don't like bread, or you don't like trocheck.
bleedblue94
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.676 point percentage against the top 3 teams in each division when you first made the comment about the Rangers needing to do better against the top teams in the NHL. With this loss it drops to .667. So we're winning at a much higher clip against the top teams than the rest of the league.
You don't know what you're talking about. Go back to the shallow end of the pool.
bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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Where are you pulling that from? Quick scan shows they have won 11 of 20 games against those teams. If i missed something or I'm reading the schedule wrong that my mistake, but from what I see they Aren't at a 2/3s winning percentage against the divisional teams. Throw me some pool noodles here since I can't swim.
And you have now given up on the panarin thing which was the start of this since he isn't anywhere near a ppg player against these playoff teams, so now we can shift to this shit.
Here's what you said about panarin: "It's like you didn't see the defense or lack of the Panthers have. No one has ever claimed that he can't completely slice up the weaker defensive teams in the league."
I said panarin was around a ppg against top 3 teams in each division and was a couple points off. Over .8ppg against the best 11 teams in the league. That's not a drastic difference when you consider the top teams in the league have better defenses and better goalies. He's not just feasting on the bottom of the league.
The Rangers against the top 3 teams in each division is 10-4-4 = 24 points out of a possible 36 points. 24/36 is a .667 point percentage.
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