Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[Hank Plank]

I don't think justice makes anyone whole in most cases. When someone dies, there is no making things whole, but that doesn't mean that due process, and punishment if guilty, should not happen.

It helps with the healing process. Imagine you being robbed at gunpoint and the perp is never found or brought to justice. Now imagine that feeling of being violated but multiplied by 100.

 

[AndreRoy]

I think that's as far as this could be reasonably argued. He stuck his leg out there to impede him with horrible consequences because of how off balance he was. If he admits that much would that be enough to meet manslaughter requirements?

You’re wrong: another thing that could be (and has been) reasonably argued is that he was not off-balance and that he intended to kick Johnson, while not intending to kick him in the throat and kill him. Even without intent to kill, if the kick was intentional it would be manslaughter.

To answer your question though, if the intent was only to trip him and contact with another player’s skate caused Petgrave to lose balance and his leg to rise higher than intended then no, it would not be manslaughter.

So which one is it? From what I’ve seen it sure looks like the former to me, but as mentioned previously the publicly available video is grainy and it’s difficult to say with certainty that contact with another player’s skate didn’t occur; that in turn would lend itself to the creation of reasonable doubt. But if the police have clearer footage that definitively shows that Petgrave was not contacted by another player and that he raised his leg of his own volition then it’s a different story altogether.

 

[MXD]

I replied the way I did because someone mentioned an 'idiot prosecutor'. My point still stands. It is not 'cut and dry obviously not intentional'.

The only person called an idiot in the last 4 page prior to your post I quoted is, well, Matt Petgrave.

 

[Civetty]

If that's the case, then every first punch thrown in a fight is assault.

Yes. The outcome matters, if you punch someone and the person falls unfortunely, whether its down a hill or his head hits an object in the landing and dies you can be charged with manslaughter even if it wasn't your intention. At least here.

 

[Craig Button]

It’s manslaughter 100%.

The only thing that may be debatable is that it’s either
Voluntary Manslaughter or Involuntary Manslaughter

 

[BrendanGaunce4Selke]

I've watched that play over and over, slow-mo.......zoomed in and I don't get how the other players skate caused him to "lose balance"

looks to me like the other player got in the way of a hit he was about to make on Johnson and he flung his leg up to...at the very least trip him.

theres another video online of him throwing his leg up. it didnt go as high but it was the same type of motion..trying to trip the player.

he has the most penalty minutes by a long shot in the league, and in the week or so leading up to it was being an absolute menace. getting kicked out of games by reffs and spearing players

in the end a jury will decide. they will have far more information then we have.

 

[TLEH]

Yes, of course he does.

So all the others that do it and they don’t die just didn’t get unlucky? Does Tee Higgins go to jail because of Hamlin if he dies.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Holy shit.

Holy shit or Holy SHEEEEEEITTTT!!!?

 

[Craig Button]

Arresting this player achieves what? What a loser prosecutor.

I think you might be missing one of these

⸮

/s

 

[Petey O]

The only person called an idiot in the last 4 page prior to your post I quoted is, well, Matt Petgrave.

Arresting this player achieves what? What a loser prosecutor.

Sorry, "loser". Huge difference.

 

[Gillings]

I remember Semenko hoofing someone with his skates during a scrum in the 80s. I haven’t seen this video yet but as far as I’ve read it was a freak accident. Is this not the case?

If jumping up to kick a guy with your skates during the middle of a hockey game is a freak accident… then yes.

More like freak incident.

Was it an accident? That is what they will have to determine.


Veleno did.

I’m sure it was an accident, the guy wanted to kill him? I’m sure if they find out that it was personal and Petgrave wanted to hurt Johnson badly.. charges will be upgraded.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Not totally sure how British law will take this but this is really straining "beyond reasonable doubt"

 

[eviohh26]

I re watched it a couple of times. Almost looks like a ninja kick. Wtf was he thinking.

 

[Craig Button]

No sarcasm. Bringing criminal charges into sports where an accident took place is truly absurd.

Have you actually seen the video?

 

[KingsHockey24]

Reckless ass play; hopefully he is punished for it.

 

[BluesBro]

This reminds me a lot of Tony Stewart killing that other driver on the race track. If you are intelligent, have a basic understanding of physics, both cases were very obviously intentionally negligent, reckless, unnecessary, hot headed maneuvers. In both cases almost zero chance that murder was intended. And in both cases, it’s going to be impossible for the average person to understand just how intentionally unorthodox and dangerous each act really was.

 

[PavelBure10]

When I watched the video the first few times I couldn't tell if it was accidental or not. Today I saw a clip of the tragic incident in slow motion and I think there definitely was a kick thrown. Obviously I don't think the player was intending to kill, but I do think there was intent to hurt on the play.

Eitherway, What a stupid play. I feel for everyone involved.

 

[Oddbob]

We are going down a slippery slope if we are going to charge people for accidents let me provide an example.

For those that don't know there is a professional wrestler that goes by the name of Rey Mysterio Jr.

A few years ago during a tag team in Mexico Rey Mysterio performed a drop kick on another pro wrestler by the name of Perro Aguayo Jr.

Perro Aguayo Jr fell onto the middle rope, broke his neck and died as a result of that drop kick, you could say Rey Mysterio killed Perro Aguayo Jr.

Do you believe Rey Mysterio should have been arrested and charged for something that was clearly an accident because another person died?

If no why is this different? What happened to Perro Aguayo Jr was an accident Rey Mysterio had no intent to kill his opponent.

What happened to Adam Johnson was also an accident I do not believe for one second Matt Petgrave thought to himself "I'm going to kill this man" and then went out and did it.

I don't believe there was a sred of intent I believe just like the Perro Aguayo Jr incident, that the Adam Johnson incident was a freak accident with NO intent to kill whatsoever.

Except that is wrestling, and you are expected to aim a kick at an opponent. In hockey you are never supposed to lead your skate toward anything but the ice. Also, Petgrave may not have intended death or injury, but he was clearly going for some move to impede Johnson with his leg and with skates and was clearly dangerous. Way too many years of hockey and way too many hits to have never seen a player hit one player, while simultaneously lunging backwards and aiming his feet up.

It honestly looked like a standing drop kick which they use in wrestling, except they don't have skates on.

 

[IDEKWTM]

If you think it was an accident, then charging/trying/potentially incarcerating him does nothing- it is unjust.

Doesn't matter.

Someone died as a result of an accident. You don't just sweep it under the rug because someone's feeling are hurt.

You conduct an investigation & a trial if needed.

 

[Gillings]

Justice for Johnson's death.

Justice? Lol... how is sending a man to a home... feeding him every day, keeping him warm off the tax payers dollar and potentially making him a worse human being called justice?

 

[Legend123]

it happened again tonight in the Habs game with Guhle escaping untouched, quite lucky, but it could have been quite bad.

More ammo for his lawyer to prove a freak accident shouldnt lead to charges

 

[TimeZone]

it happened again tonight in the Habs game with Guhle escaping untouched, quite lucky, but it could have been quite bad.

More ammo for his lawyer to prove a freak accident shouldnt lead to charges

Can you DM a video of this player being sweet chinned music in the throat?

 

[Gillings]

If the police interview the accused and he explains that he was trying hit Johnson, but prior to contact he got impeded by another player and in the process of falling he wanted to stick his leg out there to get a piece of Johnson to slow him down. Technically a penalty but something that guys do all the time in the course of a hockey game, often going uncalled. Would that be enough for a Manslaughter charge to stick? He had the intent to make contact with with Johnson with his leg, but obviously no intention of contact with his skate blade, or with Johnson's neck area.

I think that's as far as this could be reasonably argued. He stuck his leg out there to impede him with horrible consequences because of how off balance he was. If he admits that much would that be enough to meet manslaughter requirements?

Great points.

The biggest investigation I would be doing would be to find out if this was a personal attack against johnson. If they can find that there was "bad blood" there than a manslaughter charge could stick. It may stick either way with the way the hit was made. That's the problem with the law most of the time. It's a guessing game unless you are able to catch someone red handed and them admit to it. In this case, Yes, we have video of the "assault" but it does not prove he tried to kill him or even neccessarily tried to kick johnson in the neck.

 

[Petey O]

Feelsies? Jesus christ, it's a blade to a man's neck. No one should want to watch that shit.

But since you've seen it, was it intentional?

I believe the intentionality lies in the kick itself. I believe the kick was 100% intentional. Whether it was a stupid, reckless attempt to simply *impede* or an intent to injure is where the question lies for me, but due to his history and constantly being thrown out of games, it wouldn't be crazy to assume he intended to injure Johnson.

Intentional kick? I don't see how you could say it wasn't.

 

[River Meadow]

Hope he rots in jail, scumbag.

Exactly.

He's done this in the past.

This wasn't no accident (the leg move, not the death).

This is a move of his.