Around the NHL XXXIX

[DaveMatthew]

This is like your company's HR department telling you to go to them first, instead of talking to other people or a lawyer.

Never follow that advice.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I’m just throwing **** out there cause we don’t have the whole story. I’m not saying it’s right to use that kind of language. I’m saying let’s hear the whole story before anyone jumps to any conclusions.

What could the "whole story" be?

Aliu said Peters called him a slur. Two teammates who were in the room independently confirmed that this happened. That is all that needs to be known.

It doesn't matter what the content of the music or lyrics were. You had a 43 year-old in a position of significant authority calling a 20 year-old employee a slur, in the workplace.

What more do you need to know?

 

[Icelevel]

What could the "whole story" be?

Aliu said Peters called him a slur. Two teammates who were in the room independently confirmed that this happened. That is all that needs to be known.

It doesn't matter what the content of the music or lyrics were. You had a 43 year-old in a position of significant authority calling a 20 year-old employee a slur, in the workplace.

What more do you need to know?

Did he call him a slur or was he referring to the offensive lyrics in the songs? I might have missed something so apologies if I did. Either way we’ve heard one side so far. If it comes out that he called him a slur then that’s one thing. If he was demanding the music be changed and referred to the problem he had with it by using the same language that was used in the song that’s a bit different no?

Again, I might have missed something. ?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

What could the "whole story" be?

Aliu said Peters called him a slur. Two teammates who were in the room independently confirmed that this happened. That is all that needs to be known.

It doesn't matter what the content of the music or lyrics were. You had a 43 year-old in a position of significant authority calling a 20 year-old employee a slur, in the workplace.

What more do you need to know?

He didn't call him the slur, and that's not what Aliu said. He still deserves to be fired now, just saying he didn't personally call him that word. He was referring to the music.

 

[stempniaksen]

Did he call him a slur or was he referring to the offensive lyrics in the songs? I might have missed something so apologies if I did. Either way we’ve heard one side so far. If it comes out that he called him a slur then that’s one thing. If he was demanding the music be changed and referred to the problem he had with it by using the same language that was used in the song that’s a bit different no?

Again, I might have missed something. ?

He used the slur in the first place, which isn't okay under any circumstance (doesn't matter if he was referring to the player, the music, the crowd, ect).

He also singled out the only black player on the team when dropping said slurs, which doesn't happen by accident.

This is both sides-inging an argument that really doesn't need two sides of the story.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Did he call him a slur or was he referring to the offensive lyrics in the songs? I might have missed something so apologies if I did. Either way we’ve heard one side so far. If it comes out that he called him a slur then that’s one thing. If he was demanding the music be changed and referred to the problem he had with it by using the same language that was used in the song that’s a bit different no?

Again, I might have missed something. ?

My mistake, he used a slur.

Regardless, I think we already know what we need to know to form a judgement.

 

[Tighthead]

I’m just throwing **** out there cause we don’t have the whole story. I’m not saying it’s right to use that kind of language. I’m saying let’s hear the whole story before anyone jumps to any conclusions. So I’m throwing out speculations because that’s all we have. Meaning let’s hold on and get all the details here.
If the issue is the language and the language was used in the songs AA was playing and people did not want to hear it but AA continues to play it then that’s also a problem.

I’ll ask again why you specifically referenced white kids.

How could AA playing the music justify what Peters said?

What actual details could justify him using the words? You keep Sauk g let’s get all the details, so in your mind there must be a context that absolves Peters.

AA playing the music is not a “problem” that needs to be considered.

You are really stretching. It’s weird how far some people go to excuse/justify behaviour which is racist.

 

[GCK]

Did he call him a slur or was he referring to the offensive lyrics in the songs? I might have missed something so apologies if I did. Either way we’ve heard one side so far. If it comes out that he called him a slur then that’s one thing. If he was demanding the music be changed and referred to the problem he had with it by using the same language that was used in the song that’s a bit different no?

Again, I might have missed something. ?

Either way it’s unacceptable. Even if not you’re intent, it’s coming off as condoning the language in certain circumstances.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This is like your company's HR department telling you to go to them first, instead of talking to other people or a lawyer.

Never follow that advice.

If you want to get rid of someone and you have good arguments you should involve HR. The employer has procedures to follow to terminate someone, you being right doesn't mean anything in terms of what an employer is required to do when dealing with such situations.

What happens in the NHL is not applicable to most situations

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Eh, not really. History is full of people championing good causes for residual benefits rather than the actual reward of doing good and helping people.

No offense but this has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand: the fact that Peters clearly makes people he works with very uncomfortable.

How other people react to this kind of revelation has no bearing on the matter. It is classic whataboutism.
[MOD]

 

[Icelevel]

I’ll ask again why you specifically referenced white kids.

How could AA playing the music justify what Peters said?

What actual details could justify him using the words? You keep Sauk g let’s get all the details, so in your mind there must be a context that absolves Peters.

AA playing the music is not a “problem” that needs to be considered.

You are really stretching. It’s weird how far some people go to excuse/justify behaviour which is racist.

I was just putting together a random scenario because we don’t have many details. I used “white kids” cause I assumed a lot of people here are white and might be offended by that. It’s a race issue so white and black etc.
I’m seriously against all of that language.
Not trying to defend the behaviour by BP but I can see a scenario in which he was so highly offended and upset by the lyrics in the songs that he ended up saying something he regrets. Still doesn’t make it right.
I just don’t want to see conclusions being made until both sides have had a chance to speak.
It’s not looking good for BP so far but again, he gets a chance to respond no?
I mean once we have the whole story from both sides I might suggest the guy be put in jail. Until then though...

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

No offense but this has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand: the fact that Peters clearly makes people he works with very uncomfortable.

How other people react to this kind of revelation has no bearing on the matter. It is classic whataboutism.
[Mod]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the context of your particular conversation; I definitely agree that how others react has no bearing on the actual matter at hand. It's a residual phenomena.

 

[BatherSeason]

It’s not looking good for BP so far but again, he gets a chance to respond no?

Absolutely, but all evidence seems to be pointing in one direction. Not sure he should even speak unless he comes out an apologizes for his actions. If he comes out and tries to defend himself, he will be in more trouble than he already is.

 

[Tighthead]

I was just putting together a random scenario because we don’t have many details. I used “white kids” cause I assumed a lot of people here are white and might be offended by that. It’s a race issue so white and black etc.
I’m seriously against all of that language.
Not trying to defend the behaviour by BP but I can see a scenario in which he was so highly offended and upset by the lyrics in the songs that he ended up saying something he regrets. Still doesn’t make it right.
I just don’t want to see conclusions being made until both sides have had a chance to speak.
It’s not looking good for BP so far but again, he gets a chance to respond no?

Keep digging.

Did you assume we would be more sympathetic if the kids getting shot were white? Strange mindset.

You aren’t trying to defend him, but are using all of your imaginative powers to conceive of a scenario that excuses his conduct.

Why specifically do you keep saying we need details when you acknowledge that there is no excuse for using the word?

Don’t answer, I know why and you are making it clear.

 

[Boud]

sounds good, next do we wanna talk about sample size?

Talent>Corsi

If your team naturally has a low shooting percentage due to lack of talent/finishing ability the sample size can be as big as you'd like.

Look at Hurricanes until last season, they generated shots like few others yet couldn't get a win, their goaltending was terrible but they weren't scoring a lot either. Or Pens the last year they won the cup, they could score at will even if they weren't shooting much. Point is corsi remains a stat, it doesn't take into account the quality of the shots. The amount of shots generated doesn't matter unless the scoring chances match. Of course in most cases they do, but it's quite simply a stat that needs to be taken with context and not as an all end all.

Talking about sample size though, playoffs are 16-28 games, it remains a small sample size. The game itself and it's highest prize are won based on a sample size of 20 games and 16 teams, so yea sample size is cool to point out but anything can happen and most years the team that's favourite to win doesn't win... That's just the reality of the game.

 

[aragorn]

Another story about coaches abusing players, should we be surprised? Anyone who has ever played organized & team sports must have seen coaches grabbing, yelling, cursing & putting down players. Hell, I've seen teachers do it many times, there used to be such a thing as getting strapped in school by a heavy leather strap for misbehaving in their view. Yesterday it was Babcock & Peters, today it's the Sutters & tomorrow there will be others, I'm sure. When athletes make mistakes most coaches yell at them, some with a lot more fervor than maybe the situation requires & every athlete who has ever been singled out deals with that differently.

Depending on how far back we go their was lots of stuff going on yrs ago that was considered acceptable or just not made public then, that viewed today could be considered illegal & criminally prosecuted. We live in a different world today where social media can record that stuff & society has deemed it inappropriate & illegal in some instances & rightfully so & these abusers can be caught & prosecuted. Yelling & cursing in sports continues to happen, we see it happening between players all the time today & I'm quite sure it happens with coaches still too since they came up through that same system.

But racial slurs, demeaning language is never acceptable & needs to be called out for what it is. If it happens to one person it can happen to many more & it's a good thing to be called out, but both sides need to be treated & judged fairly to get to the truth of any situation. I would also imagine that some of these coaches may have also evolved in their own thinking & now know that what once was acceptable is no longer & have adjusted accordingly, at least I hope so. I hope our society continues to evolve accordingly in the right direction where we all treat each other with the respect & kindness we all deserve. Peace.

 

[Fandlauer]

This is like your company's HR department telling you to go to them first, instead of talking to other people or a lawyer.

Never follow that advice.

I think it's completely different to be honest. I'd go to HR with absolutely nothing of consequence before talking to my union rep. Any decent union should be acting in the best interests of its members.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

He used a slur that is demeaning (to say the very least) to black people to describe the music a black person was listening to.

Are we really going to split hairs about this when it comes to who it was directed at at the intention?

 

[Silencio]

 

[HavlatMach9]

This is like your company's HR department telling you to go to them first, instead of talking to other people or a lawyer.

Never follow that advice.

Don't really see the problem if the PA is able to handle the situation. The player will always have the option to go to social media if they remain unsatisfied after that.

I don't think the player will have a bulls-eye on their back when going to HR in the same way as ordinary employees could for reporting..

 

[maclean]

Yeah I’m going to have to hear/read the lyrics to the songs that were played by AA before making any judgement on this one.
If AA was in charge of the music and was subjecting the players and staff to offensive language containing the n word and was maybe even asked previously to switch it up but didn’t then doesn’t that change things a bit?
I’m not saying that’s what happened but I need more details.

Have fun dying alone on this rather bizarre line in the sand

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Or just pieces of ****?

well yes but right now the universe is dealing with these guys

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think it's completely different to be honest. I'd go to HR with absolutely nothing of consequence before talking to my union rep. Any decent union should be acting in the best interests of its members.

You are in government are you not? Our unions are mostly garbage. When it comes to compensation and union dues, PSAC lies to its membres all the time.

 

[swiftwin]

Not surprised. I get the impression that the Aliu/Downie incident had an early impact of DJ's coaching career.

Smith's first coaching job was as an assistant with Windsor the year that incident happened.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The Babcock and Peters situations while different are both horrific in their own unique ways imo and frankly I'm glad these types are being exposed, I say it's a good day for hockey with ultimate respect for both the unknown victims as well as those who are now coming forward...I have zero personal experience to draw on as I've never personally had coaches or teamates acting in anyway close to this throughout my orgainzed sporting life so to speak but I have always heard the rumoured stories passed along of this stuff going on. Hopefully those who are guilty pay their price!