Around the NHL XXXIX

[BonkTastic]

Kyle Turris: What is happening down there. It's really sad/ fascinating. Listen to his wife's podcast from a year ago, she speaks so glowingly about the org. Now fans are writing open letters criticizing the org for character assassination? Honestly, would love to know what happened. I know I know, his play, yaddayadda... no way there isn't more to the story.

He has 9 points in 19 games this year.

Not worth $6mil per year to be sure, but certainly not even close enough to be healthy-scratched, either. And Turris has a medium-high motor too, so I doubt it's a lack of effort that's keeping him out of games. By all accounts, he played reasonably well when he was in the lineup.

There has to be some personal issue going on here between Turris and Laviolette.

 

[maclean]

Believe it or not, most "old hockey people" are not racist, pieces of ****. Some certainly are, as we are seeing, most are not. This reads incredibly ignorant.

They get jobs because they have been involved playing, coaching, and scouting hockey for their whole life. Those involved at higher level of a sport for a long time would have better knowledge, wouldn't you think?

Their will be a new wave of guys entering the league, almost all of them will have been involved in hockey at the junior and pro level as players and coaches, as they should. They know and understand the game much, much better than those that haven't. It's the exact same thing. Some of these guys will be pieces of ****, most won't. Those who are pieces of **** should be weeded out, those who aren't (the vast, vast majority) are where they belong.

I think it's worth pointing out that the same is true of players as well. Players who are pieces of shit are also facing more scrutiny these days and have to face the consequences of their actions. In any sport there's going to be a shortage of personnel - many many people put in lots of volunteer hours to dedicate themselves to the kids and it's hard to get rid of someone who can do their job because of them being an asshole... just like it's hard to get rid of a good player because of their off-ice behaviour. We can only hope that as these things open up and come to light it will lead to everyone involved in the sport realising they don't have a carte blanche anymore and have to actually act like decent human beings. The more optimistic way of looking at it is not so much weeding out people as weeding out patterns of behaviour that they used to think were OK. Some of course won't be able to deal with this though

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Believe it or not, most "old hockey people" are not racist, pieces of ****. Some certainly are, as we are seeing, most are not. This reads incredibly ignorant.

They get jobs because they have been involved playing, coaching, and scouting hockey for their whole life. Those involved at higher level of a sport for a long time would have better knowledge, wouldn't you think?

Their will be a new wave of guys entering the league, almost all of them will have been involved in hockey at the junior and pro level as players and coaches, as they should. They know and understand the game much, much better than those that haven't. It's the exact same thing. Some of these guys will be pieces of ****, most won't. Those who are pieces of **** should be weeded out, those who aren't (the vast, vast majority) are where they belong.

so let the clean sweep of the old hockey people that are pieces of shit begin.

 

[BondraTime]

so let the clean sweep of the old hockey people that are pieces of **** begin.

Or just pieces of shit?

 

[dumbdick]

That's not what gotcha culture is. Gotcha culture involves someone really digging to find something on someone to more or less assert their moral superiority over them.

What's currently being talked about in hockey is a culture of abuse. There's nothing gotcha about this. This is about people in power who assumed, wrongly, that their positions would shield them from any accountability.

Also, it's really gross to say that you find people's response to this "distasteful". What a weird position to take.

You're right that gotcha culture isn't the term i was looking for. What i find distasteful is the way people enjoy getting on the soapbox and there's a bit of a news as entertainment factor to it all. People seem more interested in basking in the social media fallout and scoring internet points than they seem genuinely upset about what happened.

Its like peoples first gut reaction isn't genuine outrage, it's "I can't wait to get online and post about this".

I feel like one can be both anti-racism and still find this behaviour distasteful. And its not lost on me that this is exactly what i'm engaging in right now, just from the other side.

 

[BonkTastic]

Or just pieces of ****?

Yeah, I want the "modern" pieces if shit out of the game as well.

 

[maclean]

You're right that gotcha culture isn't the term i was looking for. What i find distasteful is the way people enjoy getting on the soapbox and there's a bit of a news as entertainment factor to it all. People seem more interested in basking in the social media fallout and scoring internet points than they seem genuinely upset about what happened.

Its like peoples first gut reaction isn't genuine outrage, it's "I can't wait to get online and post about this".

I feel like one can be both anti-racism and still find this behaviour distasteful. And its not lost on me that this is exactly what i'm engaging in right now, just from the other side.

I get you, but I'd just caution against thinking it's anything new under the sun. The gossip instinct has always been real, it's just today it's largely shifted from the pub, the hair salon, in front of the church, the schoolyard, etc. etc. to being online. So everyone has access to the same pool, but everyone wanting to get their two cents in about it and be part of the buzz isn't some new human impulse that suddenly appeared with social media

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What i find distasteful is the way people enjoy getting on the soapbox and there's a bit of a news as entertainment factor to it all. People seem more interested in basking in the social media fallout and scoring internet points than they seem genuinely upset about what happened

This says so much about you

"The problem with the world is my perception of it"

"The problem with calling out biggots and racists is how it makes me feel"

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

This says so much about you

"The problem with the world is my perception of it"

Eh, not really. History is full of people championing good causes for residual benefits rather than the actual reward of doing good and helping people. There are a few people who genuinely affect positive change through speaking out (Ronan Farrow as an example in the MeToo movement) but there are many more people who use the topicality and "gossip" nature of these incidents as a means of advancing their career or simply "gaining clout" (the guy who "cancelled" Shane Gillis, 85% of twitter, etc). Is that the central issue here? No, of course not. And I don't see any of the key players in this movement (Aliu, Jordan, Fraser, etc.) as falling into the latter category. Even Commodore... he's a bit of an ass and I've disliked him since he was a Sen, but I do believe he is acting out of genuine interest in the benefit of his colleagues. But it is a pretty objective reality that what Fenix is describing occurs, unless I'm just fundamentally misunderstanding their argument.

I get you, but I'd just caution against thinking it's anything new under the sun. The gossip instinct has always been real, it's just today it's largely shifted from the pub, the hair salon, in front of the church, the schoolyard, etc. etc. to being online. So everyone has access to the same pool, but everyone wanting to get their two cents in about it and be part of the buzz isn't some new human impulse that suddenly appeared with social media

This is certainly true, but social media has exacerbated it, incentivized it, and validated it. It is a related but distinct phenomena to what you are describing, imo.

Yeah, I want the "modern" pieces if **** out of the game as well.

A world in which we legitimately refuse to sanction shitty behaviour, across the board, is a lovely ideal to strive towards. That's for sure.

 

[BatherSeason]

The players on the Huricanes reportedly shared their concerns about Peters' antics with management when he was coaching there and were ignored.

This keeps getting worse.

Shawn Simpson said this morning on the radio that he has a hard time believing that any of this happened in Carolina because Ron Francis and Rod Brind'Amour were there and they wouldn't put up with Peters' antics.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Shawn Simpson said this morning on the radio that he has a hard time believing that any of this happened in Carolina because Ron Francis and Rod Brind'Amour were there and they wouldn't put up with Peters' antics.

It wasn't necessarily their call. If the owner said "I don't care, I am not paying for another coach" then that's that. Considering the owner in Carolina is essentially a grifter who made his money scamming people, I am inclined to believe that is what went down.

 

[BatherSeason]

It wasn't necessarily their call. If the owner said "I don't care, I am not paying for another coach" then that's that.

Exactly. This culture of not believing people's statements is a big part of the problem. Dismissing someone's statements is the wrong way to go about this. That's why I was pointing it out.

Considering the owner in Carolina is essentially a grifter who made his money scamming people, I am inclined to believe that is what went down.

Tom Dundon, whom I assume you are referring to, bought the Hurricanes in 2018. Peters was hired in 2014. Peters was fired at the end of the season. Can't really blame Dundon, he may have been the guy who got it right by firing the guy.

 

[Icelevel]

Yeah I’m going to have to hear/read the lyrics to the songs that were played by AA before making any judgement on this one.
If AA was in charge of the music and was subjecting the players and staff to offensive language containing the n word and was maybe even asked previously to switch it up but didn’t then doesn’t that change things a bit?
I’m not saying that’s what happened but I need more details.

 

[tardigrade81]

Habs are getting the media blitz ready with Laf in a Canadiens jersey as a little child and him putting in the Habs jersey in the draft stage

I won’t lie. It would be slightly funny if we make playoffs and Montreal doesn’t lol.

 

[Micklebot]

Shawn Simpson said this morning on the radio that he has a hard time believing that any of this happened in Carolina because Ron Francis and Rod Brind'Amour were there and they wouldn't put up with Peters' antics.

So, I only heard a short bit of it on my way to work, but the impression I got was Simmer was shocked that this would be allowed to happen given what he knows about Brind'amour/Francis, rather than he didn't believe it happened.

Like I said though, I only heard him talk about it for maybe 5 mins before flipping to another station

 

[BatherSeason]

So, I only heard a short bit of it on my way to work, but the impression I got was Simmer was shocked that this would be allowed to happen given what he knows about Brind'amour/Francis, rather than he didn't believe it happened.

Like I said though, I only heard him talk about it for maybe 5 mins before flipping to another station

Maybe we both interpreted it differently. Seemed to me like both he and JR were having a tough time believing that it happened because that it allegedly happened during games and that "someone would have seen it".

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Exactly. This culture of not believing people's statements is a big part of the problem. Dismissing someone's statements is the wrong way to go about this. That's why I was pointing it out.



Tom Dundon, whom I assume you are referring to, bought the Hurricanes in 2018. Peters was hired in 2014. Peters was fired at the end of the season. Can't really blame Dundon, he may have been the guy who got it right by firing the guy.

Fair enough, I thought Dundon was already in charge. Then it makes sense to believe it simply was a money thing, the previous owner(s) did not want to pay two coaches.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yeah I’m going to have to hear/read the lyrics to the songs that were played by AA before making any judgement on this one.
If AA was in charge of the music and was subjecting the players and staff to offensive language containing the n word and was maybe even asked previously to switch it up but didn’t then doesn’t that change things a bit?
I’m not saying that’s what happened but I need more details.

No because there are ways to ask someone to turned their music down that don't involve racial slurs. Besides, this is a classic missing the forest from the trees: Peters has a reprehensible behaviour, this story coming out and the Hurricanes' players having voiced their concern over Peters establishes the fact that Peters is not just an asshole, he's a biggoted asshole who isn't even very good at his job.

 

[Tighthead]

Yeah I’m going to have to hear/read the lyrics to the songs that were played by AA before making any judgement on this one.
If AA was in charge of the music and was subjecting the players and staff to offensive language containing the n word and was maybe even asked previously to switch it up but didn’t then doesn’t that change things a bit?
I’m not saying that’s what happened but I need more details.

It doesn’t change a thing.

If the music was an issue with the team or dressing room, it can be addressed without resorting to that language. Period.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Icelevel]

It doesn’t change a thing.

If the music was an issue with the team or dressing room, it can be addressed without resorting to that language. Period.

I get that it isn’t good choice of language but what if that was the language used in the songs or even worse? Like what if the n word was used 25 times in a 4 min song and it was about raping women and shooting white kids? And what if AA was asked before to change it? We don’t need these details?

 

[Tighthead]

The PA has never been great about player safety/workplace issues, more just compensation.

Were I a player I would take advice from my agent and maybe a couple of players but not the PA.

 

[Tighthead]

I get that it isn’t good choice of language but what if that was the language used in the songs or even worse? Like what if the n word was used 25 times in a 4 min song and it was about raping women and shooting white kids? And what if AA was asked before to change it? We don’t need these details?

There is no excuse. Period. Not sure why you want there to be one.

You are creating about 15 what-ifs to excuse that which can’t be excused.

You would be fine with Peter using the word in that context?

Who specifically is we, because I don’t think you have big numbers of people on your side.

Why does the race if he kids being shot impact your thinking? Please explain in detail.

 

[Knave]

Exactly. This culture of not believing people's statements is a big part of the problem. Dismissing someone's statements is the wrong way to go about this. That's why I was pointing it out.

No it's not. The problem is when police or HR or whoever is supposed to deal with it does not believe.

The "believe" culture where we need people not involved, the general public to "believe" is becoming a problem. I'm willing to believe if I hear multiple stories from multiple people. One allegation from one person? No thanks. Get a professional to look into it and interview people who were actually there.

 

[Icelevel]

There is no excuse. Period. Not sure why you want there to be one.

You are creating about 15 what-ifs to excuse that which can’t be excused.

You would be fine with Peter using the word in that context?

Who specifically is we, because I don’t think you have big numbers of people on your side.

Why does the race if he kids being shot impact your thinking? Please explain in detail.

I’m just throwing shit out there cause we don’t have the whole story. I’m not saying it’s right to use that kind of language. I’m saying let’s hear the whole story before anyone jumps to any conclusions. So I’m throwing out speculations because that’s all we have. Meaning let’s hold on and get all the details here.
If the issue is the language and the language was used in the songs AA was playing and people did not want to hear it but AA continues to play it then that’s also a problem.