Around The NHL X: Playoff Edition!

[Paulie Walnutz]

Lol Papsmear

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

Oh MIN....the one time i want you to win and you find a way to **** it up.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Bluenote was pimping Johansen before he ever cracked the top 30 on anyone's board.

I give certain posters a lot of credit, namely Bluenote. Not the masses of people droning over Tarasenko and Fowler, though.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

COL is the luckiest most undeserving team i have seen in years. My god.

trail the entire game or a chunk of a game, get the bounce late to tie, win in extra time. Rinse and repeat

 

[LeetchisGod]

It's amazing what a first overall pick can do for your franchise.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

COL is the luckiest most undeserving team i have seen in years. My god.

trail the entire game or a chunk of a game, get the bounce late to tie, win in extra time. Rinse and repeat

Or their goaltending is amazing and their forwards are great at scoring.

Which one led them to 112 points???

 

[Samuel Culper III]

If he was 2 weeks younger, he couldn't legally play in the NHL this year. He has 10 points in 5 playoff games. Oh yeah, and his team also has Duchene, O'Reilly, Stastny. At least we've got Rick Nashty Nash.

 

[ImIdaho]

Should have been a hold on Benoit against Coyle, IMO.

Also that play looked offsides to me.

You're not the only one who thought that.

 

[Greg02]

I give certain posters a lot of credit, namely Bluenote. Not the masses of people droning over Tarasenko and Fowler, though.

People weren't really talking about Fowler until the draft, though (mainly because everyone thought he was going #3).

The board was highly into two forwards for a long time though- Tarasenko and Johansen. And they look like they'll be two of the best from the draft (not just that it's stacked). And sure, plenty of it is the echo chamber, but hey, it's kind of cool that the echo chamber was that spot on.

 

[Zil]

If he was 2 weeks younger, he couldn't legally play in the NHL this year. He has 10 points in 5 playoff games. Oh yeah, and his team also has Duchene, O'Reilly, Stastny. At least we've got Rick Nashty Nash.

That's so asinine. MacKinnon was a first overall pick, Landeskog was a second overall pick, and Duchene was a third overall pick. You're seriously wondering why we don't have anyone like them on the roster? Our system has produced comparable talents to Stastny and O'Reilly in the form of Stepan, Staal, etc. Colorado sucked four out of five seasons for this roster (they traded the other pick for Varlamov) and even with all that talent they're still a terrible possession team.

 

[LeetchisGod]

That's so asinine. MacKinnon was a first overall pick, Landeskog was a second overall pick, and Duchene was a third overall pick. You're seriously wondering why we don't have anyone like them on the roster? Our system has produced comparable talents to Stastny and O'Reilly in the form of Stepan, Staal, etc. Colorado sucked four out of five seasons for this roster (they traded the other pick for Varlamov) and even with all that talent they're still a terrible possession team.

Who cares about possession? They scored 32 more goals than us. We really don't do much with our possession.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

That's so asinine. MacKinnon was a first overall pick, Landeskog was a second overall pick, and Duchene was a third overall pick. You're seriously wondering why we don't have anyone like them on the roster? Our system has produced comparable talents to Stastny and O'Reilly in the form of Stepan, Staal, etc. Colorado sucked four out of five seasons for this roster (they traded the other pick for Varlamov) and even with all that talent they're still a terrible possession team.

What's asinine? Being jealous of a team that's loaded with offensive talent? Or thinking Rick Nash is a big disappointment?

I'll tell you something that's asinine: Fans who still don't understand that the Rangers will never be a contender until they also suck for a few years. We will never have a core of prime players akin to Toews/Kane, Malkin/Crosby, MacKinnon/Duchene/Landeskog. As long as the goal is playoffs every year no matter what, no matter how feeble a first/second round exit we are, we will never actually progress towards contention.

There's a point at which the fans ought to welcome sucking for a couple of years in order to stock the cupboards.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Babcock said he wish he could just be the worst team in the league rest he's guys get a first overall and than go for a playoff run but they can't do that..I wonder if thats a hint toward COL

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Doesn't matter who gets out of the COL MIN series they'll be out in the second round..no way they beat STL/Chi

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

What's asinine? Being jealous of a team that's loaded with offensive talent? Or thinking Rick Nash is a big disappointment?

I'll tell you something that's asinine: Fans who still don't understand that the Rangers will never be a contender until they also suck for a few years. We will never have a core of prime players akin to Toews/Kane, Malkin/Crosby, MacKinnon/Duchene/Landeskog. As long as the goal is playoffs every year no matter what, no matter how feeble a first/second round exit we are, we will never actually progress towards contention.

There's a point at which the fans ought to welcome sucking for a couple of years in order to stock the cupboards.

I don't disagree, but this is New York. They'll never be an actual rebuild like the Hawks, Avs, etc.

 

[Zil]

Who cares about possession? They scored 32 more goals than us. We really don't do much with our possession.

You should care because bad possession teams don't win the cup. Look at this chart:

Unless you have Crosby and Malkin on your team, it's basically impossible to win with a bad possession squad and difficult to even make the conference finals.

What's asinine? Being jealous of a team that's loaded with offensive talent? Or thinking Rick Nash is a big disappointment?

I'll tell you something that's asinine: Fans who still don't understand that the Rangers will never be a contender until they also suck for a few years. We will never have a core of prime players akin to Toews/Kane, Malkin/Crosby, MacKinnon/Duchene/Landeskog. As long as the goal is playoffs every year no matter what, no matter how feeble a first/second round exit we are, we will never actually progress towards contention.

There's a point at which the fans ought to welcome sucking for a couple of years in order to stock the cupboards.

Yeah, nobody ever wins the cup without tanking. It's not like Boston, LA, Detroit, and Anaheim have all won cups in the last seven seasons without tanking. You're right. We should jettison Lundqvist, what might be the top group of defensemen in the league 1-6, and guys like Stepan and Zuccarello so we can purposely go into a multi-year tailspin with no guaranteed results. Awesome plan.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Yeah, nobody ever wins the cup without tanking. It's not like Boston, LA, Detroit, and Anaheim have all won cups in the last seven seasons without tanking. You're right. We should jettison Lundqvist, what might be the top group of defensemen in the league 1-6, and guys like Stepan and Zuccarello so we can purposely go into a multi-year tailspin with no guaranteed results. Awesome plan.

The Kings drafted 13th in 2003, 11th in 2004, 11th in 2005, 11th in 2006, 4th in 2007, 2nd in 2008, 5th in 2009. Most notably these picks resulted in Brown, Kopitar and Doughty.

Boston drafted 5th in 2006, 8th in 2007. Result is Phil Kessel which lands Seguin and Kaberle who play key roles in Cup victory.

The Ducks drafted 7th in 2002, 9th in 2004, 2nd in 2005 and made a huge trade to acquire Pronger. They also drafted Perry and Getzlaf 19 and 28 (I believe) of the first round of 2003, getting very lucky to make two of the best picks in arguably the deeper first round of all time. 7th and 9th overall are Lupul and Smid, who are dealt for Pronger.

Wanna rethink your argument? No matter how you slice it, these teams were bad before they were good. No top picks, no Cups, unless you have Detroit's insane system and propensity for late round gems like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Mrazek, Tatar, etc.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

I don't even think the Rangers need to suck for years. Just a year maybe two. But more so a year. You put a legit number 1C (prospect) on this team, that is HUGE. The rest of the draft, you will pick high and if you have good scouting, you can find a good LW or RW. Don't really need to tank another year for the latter.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I don't even think the Rangers need to suck for years. Just a year maybe two. But more so a year. You put a legit number 1C (prospect) on this team, that is HUGE. The rest of the draft, you will pick high and if you have good scouting, you can find a good LW or RW. Don't really need to tank another year for the latter.

We'd probably use our first overall pick on a stay at home defenseman.

 

[Zil]

The Kings drafted 13th in 2003, 11th in 2004, 11th in 2005, 11th in 2006, 4th in 2007, 2nd in 2008, 5th in 2009. Most notably these picks resulted in Brown, Kopitar and Doughty.

You can't be serious. You went from *****ing about not having MacKinnon or Duchene to stretching the definition to fit guys picked outside the top 10. Nobody tanks for the 11th freaking pick. Doughty's the only super high pick who played a key role on their cup team and we have a guy comparable to him in McDonagh. Kopitar and Brown went 11th and 13th. Those are good mid-round picks. There was no Toews/Malkin/MacKinnon/etc on this team. Also, they completely blew the fourth overall pick in 2007 on Thomas Hickey. I like how you completely neglect the risk of having a terrible season to wind up with nothing.

Boston drafted 5th in 2006, 8th in 2007. Result is Phil Kessel which lands Seguin and Kaberle who play key roles in Cup victory.

So now we need to tank so we have the assets to deal for mediocre mid-season rentals? Kaberle was a guy they picked up to be a powerplay quarterback. He picked up a whole 11 assists and 0 goals on their cup run and was largely a non-factor before walking in the offseason. Seguin didn't even play until they reached the ECFs and had one big game while otherwise being mostly a non-factor.

The Ducks drafted 7th in 2002, 9th in 2004, 2nd in 2005 and made a huge trade to acquire Pronger. They also drafted Perry and Getzlaf 19 and 28 (I believe) of the first round of 2003, getting very lucky to make two of the best picks in arguably the deeper first round of all time. 7th and 9th overall are Lupul and Smid, who are dealt for Pronger.

The Pronger trade came because he forced Edmonton's hand. They had no leverage in the situation. Otherwise there's no way Lupul and Smid net you Pronger. Bobby Ryan, the second in 2005, wasn't even in the NHL when the Ducks won their cup. I like how you need high picks to contend and when teams come up with Perry and Getzlaf late in the first round it's something we have no hope of replicating. Very convenient.

Wanna rethink your argument? No matter how you slice it, these teams were bad before they were good. No top picks, no Cups, unless you have Detroit's insane system and propensity for late round gems like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Mrazek, Tatar, etc.

Nope, not particularly. None of those teams got the kind of Kane/Crosby/Stamkos/etc players out of their high picks that you were drooling over and claim we need to win the cup. Teams like this are proof that smart roster construction is far more essential to winning a cup than super high picks.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

You can't be serious. You went from *****ing about not having MacKinnon or Duchene to stretching the definition to fit guys picked outside the top 10. Nobody tanks for the 11th freaking pick. Doughty's the only super high pick who played a key role on their cup team and we have a guy comparable to him in McDonagh. Kopitar and Brown went 11th and 13th. Those are good mid-round picks. There was no Toews/Malkin/MacKinnon/etc on this team. Also, they completely blew the fourth overall pick in 2007 on Thomas Hickey. I like how you completely neglect the risk of having a terrible season to wind up with nothing.



So now we need to tank so we have the assets to deal for mediocre mid-season rentals? Kaberle was a guy they picked up to be a powerplay quarterback. He picked up a whole 11 assists and 0 goals on their cup run and was largely a non-factor before walking in the offseason. Seguin didn't even play until they reached the ECFs and had one big game while otherwise being mostly a non-factor.



The Pronger trade came because he forced Edmonton's hand. They had no leverage in the situation. Otherwise there's no way Lupul and Smid net you Pronger. Bobby Ryan, the second in 2005, wasn't even in the NHL when the Ducks won their cup. I like how you need high picks to contend and when teams come up with Perry and Getzlaf late in the first round it's something we have no hope of replicating. Very convenient.



Nope, not particularly. None of those teams got the kind of Kane/Crosby/Stamkos/etc players out of their high picks that you were drooling over and claim we need to win the cup. Teams like this are proof that smart roster construction is far more essential to winning a cup than super high picks.

Are you genuinely unintelligent? Every team you mentioned, besides Detroit had 2-3 picks inside of the top 10 in the years immediately prior to winning the Cup. Whether they flipped those assets for Seguin & Kaberle (he was actually very important defensively) or Chris Pronger, or they manifested in the form of Drew Doughty, they all acquired elite talent, because of high draft picks, immediately before winning the Cup. Nothing you say can refute that. I only included LAs earlier picks to show just how long they were bad for. They still drafted 4th, 2nd and 5th in three consecutive seasons prior to their Cup. Bobby Ryan wasn't on the Ducks roster yet, but they did finish poor enough to draft 2nd and finishing poor enough to draft 7th and 9th is what allowed them to acquire a top dman like Pronger. You may not think Kaberle contributed, but Seguin did, and the Bruins were bad enough to draft 8th and 5th. Every team you mentioned had 2-3 top 10 picks immediately prior to winning the Cup. There is no way around it. You can belittle the impact those picks had all you want, but it won't make the fact that they were all bad enough to draft anywhere from 2nd to 5th before they were able to win the Cup and they all drafted in the top 10 multiple times.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

 

[GoAwayGiannone]

Hearing Pidto say "Jussi Jooookinen" rips a piece of my soul out every time I hear it.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I feel for the Blues fans if they lose today. Brutal last couple of years for them.

 

[Zil]

You are genuinely unintelligent.

I find that ad-hominem attacks are the key to any strong argument. I disagree with you so I must not be smart. Convenient.

Every team you mentioned, besides Detroit had 2-3 picks inside of the top 10 in the years immediately prior to winning the Cup. Whether they flipped those assets for Seguin & Kaberle (he was actually very important defensively) or Chris Pronger, or they manifested in the form of Drew Doughty, they all acquired elite talent, because of high draft picks, immediately before winning the Cup. Nothing you say can refute that.

I just did refute it. You're arguing that we can't acquire the elite talent necessary to winning the cup without tanking. It's one thing to point to Chicago and Pittsburgh and say, "See tanking works." To do the same with Boston, Anaheim, and LA is to conflate correlation with causation.

I only included LAs earlier picks to show just how long they were bad for. They still drafted 4th, 2nd and 5th in three consecutive seasons prior to their Cup. Bobby Ryan wasn't on the Ducks roster yet, but they did finish poor enough to draft 2nd and finishing poor enough to draft 7th and 9th is what allowed them to acquire a top dman like Pronger. You may not think Kaberle contributed, but Seguin did, and the Bruins were bad enough to draft 8th and 5th. Every team you mentioned had 2-3 top 10 picks immediately prior to winning the Cup. There is no way around it. You can belittle the impact those picks had all you want, but it won't make the fact that they were all bad enough to draft anywhere from 2nd to 5th before they were able to win the Cup and they all drafted in the top 10 multiple times.

Look at the cores of those teams. Boston was all about Thomas, Chara, Bergeron, Krejčí, Lucic, Marchand, and Seidenberg.

Anaheim had Niedermayer, Selanne, Getzlaf, Perry, McDonald, and Pronger. I don't see how you can see they had to tank to get Pronger when he forced his way onto the team. That deal was going to get done one way or the other. Neither Smid nor Lupul are the kind of the high caliber guys you can only find high in the draft.

LA had one super high pick in Doughty. Otherwise it's Quick, Kopitar, Brown, Richards, and Carter. And like I pointed out before, you can't argue that we need to tank to get a guy on Doughty's level when we already have one.

Tanking didn't catapult any of these teams to their cups. Outside of Doughty, not a single one of their high picks even played at a star level during their cup runs. Not a one of these teams serves as an argument that we need to tank. If anything they serve as an argument that we need better management.