NHL Around the NHL - Regular Season 2017-18

[Blowfish]

Am I crazy or did they have good teams from the early 90s until the lockout?

Not really. Mediocre. Made playoffs here and there. But failed to get anywhere far. Almost beat LA to reach finals. Probably most successful year I remember.

 

[EverettMike]

Not really. Mediocre. Made playoffs here and there. But failed to get anywhere far. Almost beat LA to reach finals. Probably most successful year I remember.

I count conference finals for them that year in 93, 94, 99, and 02. Plus lots of 2nd round appearances.

We'll just have to chalk this up to a different view.

I'm not saying I'd be happy as a fan of a long stretch of being good enough to make it far but not far enough, but as a Bruins fan I've seen that organization have its **** together during my lifetime too.

 

[Blowfish]

I count conference finals for them that year in 93, 94, 99, and 02. Plus lots of 2nd round appearances.

We'll just have to chalk this up to a different view.

I'm not saying I'd be happy as a fan of a long stretch of being good enough to make it far but not far enough, but as a Bruins fan I've seen that organization have its **** together during my lifetime too.

Yikes. A bad few years of bruin hockey must be easy for you to absorb. Lol. All good. Me I'm just worried they're getting better lol

 

[EverettMike]

Yikes. A bad few years of bruin hockey must be easy for you to absorb. Lol. All good. Me I'm just worried they're getting better lol

What are you talking about? I just said I wouldn't be happy with that as a fan.

Also, Surrounding those 15 or so years were two horrendous runs. So yeah, over the last 50 years being a Leafs fan has sucked.

BUT AS A BRUINS FAN looking at the organization now, I know they are capable of not completely sucking. I saw it. I saw them be a good NHL organization. They look like they are in great shape now going forward, and laughing at them at this moment is like whistling past the graveyard.

You're the one acting like they've been in last every year for 50 years.

 

[JAD]

I still think a team can build through the draft and not encounter cap issues, but a GM needs to adhere to a few basic guidelines:
First and foremost the team needs to consistently draft players that are capable of playing in the NHL to the degree of replacing current players.
The GM can not become emotionally attached to the team's current core and or prospects in the team's system.
The GM can not limit his maneuverability by having too many no trade / no movement / limited trade contracts on the roster.
The GM must be willing to trade popular / productive players when the player prices himself out the team's cap structure or age becomes a negative factor.
The GM must be able to successfully evaluate the impact ability of his team's prospects and other team's NHL player's talent in order to successfully choose who to keep, who to trade, and who to acquire.

In the case of the Bruins Sweeney is eventually going to have to trade aging core players or players that price themselves out of the team's cap structure, while at the same time properly identifying what prospects to keep and what other NHL talent to acquire. And this will have to be an ongoing process year after year - so drafting NHL quality prospects consistently is critical.
For years the Bruins failed to draft quality and it forced them to sign players to contracts that eventually lead to cap issues, because they had no ELC's capable of replacing current established players.

But drafting quality is critical to remaining competitive in a cap league.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

This is the opposite of a problem. Having too many good players is a good thing. You can always make trades. Give me too many assets as a GM every day.

Again Mike nails it.

I laugh at the folks who look down on teams with a bunch of great young players because "their cap is gonna be ****ed". May be the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard so many otherwise intelligent people defend.

 

[Blowfish]

Again Mike nails it.

I laugh at the folks who look down on teams with a bunch of great young players because "their cap is gonna be ****ed". May be the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard so many otherwise intelligent people defend.

I Never said anything about cap issues. What I will say is move in the horseshoe area and stomach the crap we need to endure year after year with leaf fans. It's scary to think what the next 5 years will be like.

 

[C77]

Again Mike nails it.

I laugh at the folks who look down on teams with a bunch of great young players because "their cap is gonna be ****ed". May be the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard so many otherwise intelligent people defend.

Amen and reason #1 why I thought the criticism of Chiarelli regarding the cap was way overblown.

Like Mike Babcock said regarding the Bruins around 2011, you have good players they are going to want to get paid.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I count conference finals for them that year in 93, 94, 99, and 02. Plus lots of 2nd round appearances.

We'll just have to chalk this up to a different view.

I'm not saying I'd be happy as a fan of a long stretch of being good enough to make it far but not far enough, but as a Bruins fan I've seen that organization have its **** together during my lifetime too.

in my lifetime... cup wins in 70, 72, 011
finals in... 74, 77, 78, 88, 90, 013
semi finals... 69, 79, 83, 91, 92

so in my first 34 years of life made it to final 4 twelve times

in my 49 years have been to finals 9 times... or once every 5.5 years

people can say im too easily satisfied but no other team in nhl except montreal is close to this level of success and im sure as hell not going to cheer for them

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

This is the opposite of a problem. Having too many good players is a good thing. You can always make trades. Give me too many assets as a GM every day.

youve been around when boston traded thornton, kessel, seguin, hamilton. youve read the same threads i have where fans claim they are going to quit if we trade one more kid

its a problem when your team is too young to win and too expensive to add depth

you need to be lucky and have unexpected cheap affordable kids get good... guys like duncan keith, patrice bergeron, jon quick are every bit as important to cup success as cam barker, anze kopitar and tyler sequin.

i would never argue that 2-3 successful high end kids dont help but its not a guarantee

tampa has won nothing with stamkos and hedberg
washington nothing with ovechkin and backstrom

these teams are having to shed multiple talented players to maintain cap compliance

finding good affordable vetern depth players is what gives teams the edge to win... trying to go with nothing but kids leads to oilers or islanders ville

 

[DKH]

Question

The Leafs are $2 M OVER the cap right now

They are looking at $30 M increase for Matthews Marner Reilly Nylander not to far down the road

How are they going to keep this powerhouse together

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

in my lifetime... cup wins in 70, 72, 011
finals in... 74, 77, 78, 88, 90, 013
semi finals... 69, 79, 83, 91, 92

so in my first 34 years of life made it to final 4 twelve times

in my 49 years have been to finals 9 times... or once every 5.5 years

people can say im too easily satisfied but no other team in nhl except montreal is close to this level of success and im sure as hell not going to cheer for them

There is a thread in the History of Hockey section entitled, "Most Impressive NHL Franchise since 1967 Expansion?" Posters here should take a look at that thread.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

There is a thread in the History of Hockey section entitled, "Most Impressive NHL Franchise since 1967 Expansion?" Posters here should take a look at that thread.

thanks, hadnt seen the thread but its what i already knew... its us and montreal the last 50 years

people can wish it was better, but this is as good as it gets

 

[Sharp Shooting Neely]

The Wings contract situation with Tatar is on a rocky road. Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News recaps the situation and provides Tatar's take on the direction it is headed. Should it result in a one year attribution awarded contract he may well become an A list type trade target in this year. Could also make a case for if he would be a rival trade target with Duchene. Both of the same age and age skilled, proven offensive upside wingers. The salary and term of current and future contracts are also a factor to consider in emulating the better longer term options in pursuing their services. The price to be paid for the services of either may also differ somewhat.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...-talks-red-wings-tatar-turn-sticky/103534746/

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Amen and reason #1 why I thought the criticism of Chiarelli regarding the cap was way overblown.

Like Mike Babcock said regarding the Bruins around 2011, you have good players they are going to want to get paid.

Typically, it's not the superstar contracts that does a team in, it's the average guys getting paid more money than they should that adds up.

Chia always gave out contracts that were near the top of the food chain AND NMC's/NTC's like they were candy. I don't think he's good with the Cap. I guess we will find out with EDM in the near future.

Also, and this is not a criticism of Chia, but I'm laughing my ass off listening to some people saying McJesus could have gotten more money and is a team guy. If he had taken somewhere between say $9m-$10.5m, that would have been a team guy.

 

[DominicT]

Question

The Leafs are $2 M OVER the cap right now

They are looking at $30 M increase for Matthews Marner Reilly Nylander not to far down the road

How are they going to keep this powerhouse together

Actually, $3.9 million over, but will have $10.5 million they can LTIR with Horton and Lupul.

Leafs are actually in a pretty good spot cap wise. They'll get their kids locked up long term.

 

[LouJersey]

Actually, $3.9 million over, but will have $10.5 million they can LTIR with Horton and Lupul.

Leafs are actually in a pretty good spot cap wise. They'll get their kids locked up long term.

Dom I always get confused with the cap in regards to where teams need to be on the 1st of oct or whatever it is. Don't the leafs need to be at the cap with the contracts of Lupul and Horton and not over? Then once they are they can LTIR them and have the space?

 

[C77]

Typically, it's not the superstar contracts that does a team in, it's the average guys getting paid more money than they should that adds up.

Chia always gave out contracts that were near the top of the food chain AND NMC's/NTC's like they were candy. I don't think he's good with the Cap. I guess we will find out with EDM in the near future.

Also, and this is not a criticism of Chia, but I'm laughing my ass off listening to some people saying McJesus could have gotten more money and is a team guy. If he had taken somewhere between say $9m-$10.5m, that would have been a team guy.

I agree Chiarelli made mistakes with the cap but I thought he was overly criticized considering the success the team had during his tenure. At the time Chiarelli was fired I thought he deserved the chance to remain and make amends. In hindsight his firing, and Sweeney's hiring, seems to have given the organization a new and positive direction.

With the McDavid deal and Draisaitl's coming up they better hope to draft better in Edmonton than happened here in Boston.

 

[DominicT]

Dom I always get confused with the cap in regards to where teams need to be on the 1st of oct or whatever it is. Don't the leafs need to be at the cap with the contracts of Lupul and Horton and not over? Then once they are they can LTIR them and have the space?

There are two options. Pre-first day LTIR or LTIR on first day - effects the cap differently. Bruins have used both scenarios in the past.

Leafs are fine. No worries with their cap.

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

 

[LouJersey]

What are you talking about? I just said I wouldn't be happy with that as a fan.

Also, Surrounding those 15 or so years were two horrendous runs. So yeah, over the last 50 years being a Leafs fan has sucked.

BUT AS A BRUINS FAN looking at the organization now, I know they are capable of not completely sucking. I saw it. I saw them be a good NHL organization. They look like they are in great shape now going forward, and laughing at them at this moment is like whistling past the graveyard.

You're the one acting like they've been in last every year for 50 years.

I'm still wondering as well how a team that went 5-0 vs us last year isn't as good as we are.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

figuring out a teams cap situation a year or two years into the future is very tricky stuff... teams actually hire guys to do this job because it is tricky,

I brought up the leafs cap situation because there is a serious problem developing. I wanted to make the point that there is a sheep mentality out there that you can only win building through the draft. people say LA and Chicago built through the draft. my point has always been that the draft is only a PART of the process.

teams that stick to closely to the draft become teams like Edmonton and ny islanders. but even teams that do it right like Chicago and LA are forced to trade off multiple draft picks and prospects if they want to win

as for Toronto... ill lay it out for you all

we will look at how their cap projects for 2019-2020 which gives them a 2 year window to win now before they get crunched

they currently have 8 players signed for 2019 at 35.3 million
Nathan Horton will be on ltir so lets say 7 players at 30 million

Patrick marleau
nazim kadri
matt martin
zack hyman
mogan reiley
nikita zeitsev
Frederik Anderson

now they need new contracts for
Austin Matthews...9
William nylander...7
mitch marner...7
connor brown...3
jake gardiner...6

I will say 32 million to be conservative for these 5 stars

that will be 12 players for 62 million

there will be NO MONEY to round out the other 11 players with guys like van riemsdyke or even komorov. there wont be money to bring in a top 4 dman.

Toronto is now under preasure to find 11 quality support players that will cost around a million dollars each. that's going to be half their lineup

its NOT IMPOSSIBLE... but it is difficult. this is why you have to be careful handing out your contracts. when I say building through the draft is impossible what I mean is the guys wont all mature at the same time. you have to be smart and build part through the draft BUT ALSO PART THROUGH TRADES AND FREEAGENCY

Toronto has NOTHING WRONG with the drafting they've done... but their contract management with their support players is not complimenting their drafting.

anyhow ive stuck my neck on the chopping board... I'm going to say Toronto is very unlikely to fix this... they might have Washington success and be impressive for a couple years but I don't see enough cap room here to win a cup.

I like what Edmonton is doing better... picking up guys like lucic, maroon, kassian... making trades to get the right parts like eberle/hall out and Larson/strome in... its like what Quebec/Colorado did years ago when they moved out all their young first overall kids to find the pieces they could win with.

that was even before the cap era... today in the cap era its more important than ever to understand your window for success and do everything you can to aim for it

 

[EverettMike]

Totally missed the Alzner deal. Terrible contract for Montreal. I love it.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Totally missed the Alzner deal. Terrible contract for Montreal. I love it.

im curious how he will play.. honestly the contract comes in better than i had forcast. you might be right about it being terrible

when belesky signed i felt it was ok... same with backes

i am now fully coming to the realization that only your top 10 players can be making more than a couple million tops

6 forwards... 3 dmen... a goalie

if you are paying 50 million for your top 10 playerd you have to watch every penny for the other guys... you can still pay but only 1-2 year contracts

belesky contract would have been ok on a one year deal

so would alzner

commiting term to depth players is the killer when elc kids are looking for 7-9 mill on their second deals

 

[EverettMike]

im curious how he will play.. honestly the contract comes in better than i had forcast. you might be right about it being terrible

when belesky signed i felt it was ok... same with backes

i am now fully coming to the realization that only your top 10 players can be making more than a couple million tops

6 forwards... 3 dmen... a goalie

if you are paying 50 million for your top 10 playerd you have to watch every penny for the other guys... you can still pay but only 1-2 year contracts

belesky contract would have been ok on a one year deal

so would alzner

commiting term to depth players is the killer when elc kids are looking for 7-9 mill on their second deals

Those guys should never get more than 2 years.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Typically, it's not the superstar contracts that does a team in, it's the average guys getting paid more money than they should that adds up.

Chia always gave out contracts that were near the top of the food chain AND NMC's/NTC's like they were candy. I don't think he's good with the Cap. I guess we will find out with EDM in the near future.

Also, and this is not a criticism of Chia, but I'm laughing my ass off listening to some people saying McJesus could have gotten more money and is a team guy. If he had taken somewhere between say $9m-$10.5m, that would have been a team guy.

I've seen people say "omg Chia is handcuffing EDM" with regard to the McDavid and (expected) Draisaitl deals and it just belies a fundamental misunderstanding of what did Chia in here. Like you said, it wasn't the star player deals it was all the bottom 6 deals (and inability to bring in any ELCs to replace them). Chia is going to look like a genius in Edmonton for the first few years, but once he has to start signing or extending depth guys that will be the real test of whether or not he has learned from his mistakes.