Around the NHL: PTO Season Becomes Waiver Season

[SnuggaRUDE]

There would be no expansion fee in that case as the current Arizona owners would need to be paid for their franchise. And they certainly are no paying an expansion fee to move the franchise from Arizona to Atlanta.

Yeah, in what world do the owners not want a slice of that expansion fee goodness?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

There would be no expansion fee in that case as the current Arizona owners would need to be paid for their franchise. And they certainly are no paying an expansion fee to move the franchise from Arizona to Atlanta.

I'd assume that Arizona would be worth less than whatever the fee would be for a new team... Then again - consider the figure Ottawa recently sold for....

Whatever way you look at it though - increasing from 32 teams makes no sense whatsoever...

Yeah, in what world do the owners not want a slice of that expansion fee goodness?

In a world where the league suffers from having too many bad teams.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'd assume that Arizona would be worth less than whatever the fee would be for a new team... Then again - consider the figure Ottawa recently sold for....

Whatever way you look at it though - increasing from 32 teams makes no sense whatsoever...

The only reason expansion makes sense is the immediate cash that will go into the current owners pockets.

You also have the potential for revenue to grow with more markets watching games, buying tickets, and buying merch.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'd assume that Arizona would be worth less than whatever the fee would be for a new team... Then again - consider the figure Ottawa recently sold for....

Whatever way you look at it though - increasing from 32 teams makes no sense whatsoever...


In a world where the league suffers from having too many bad teams.

They don't really suffer from having additional teams in a gate driven league. Individual owners might suffer if they lose their investment.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The only reason expansion makes sense is the immediate cash that will go into the current owners pockets.

You also have the potential for revenue to grow with more markets watching games, buying tickets, and buying merch.

Right. But it would be very short sighted IMO, in the sense that it would be a bad move long term.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

They don't really suffer from having additional teams in a gate driven league. Individual owners might suffer if they lose their investment.

See above. I think everyone would be better served by finding a better home for a team like Arizona, for example.

***

There's also the issue of potentially diluting the on-ice product. I think that could easily happen if they expanded as far as 36 teams as well...

 

[jd1970]

If the Arizona franchise moves to Atlanta it will eventually end up in Saskatoon I predict.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

See above. I think everyone would be better served by finding a better home for a team like Arizona, for example.

***

There's also the issue of potentially diluting the on-ice product. I think that could easily happen if they expanded as far as 36 teams as well...

While I won't say your opinion is wrong, I don't feel it's informed by the League's revenue structure and strategy.

 

[Jim Bob]

Right. But it would be very short sighted IMO, in the sense that it would be a bad move long term.

I doubt it would be a bad move from a business POV.

 

[Ehran]

My opinion: Arizona doesn't need a better home, it needs better ownership / management.

Phoenix area is comparatively rich and growing. The fact that the team hasn't succeeded is more about how its been run than the market itself. Moving to Houston or Atlanta makes no sense. You're simply moving from one large market to another.

Talent dilution isn't the biggest drawback to expansion. Lack of quality ownership (and management) to make the markets work is.

 

[Jim Bob]

My opinion: Arizona doesn't need a better home, it needs better ownership / management.

Phoenix area is comparatively rich and growing. The fact that the team hasn't succeeded is more about how its been run than the market itself. Moving to Houston or Atlanta makes no sense. You're simply moving from one large market to another.

Talent dilution isn't the biggest drawback to expansion. Lack of quality ownership (and management) to make the markets work is.

Arizona has had multiple ownership groups and none of them have been able to stabilize things. And more importantly, they have done so much damage in the region that many residents, and sports fans, will never support the team.

It will be a really heavy lift to fix things there given all the toxicity with little positive history to build off of.

 

[Ehran]

Arizona has had multiple ownership groups and none of them have been able to stabilize things. And more importantly, they have done so much damage in the region that many residents, and sports fans, will never support the team.

It will be a really heavy lift to fix things there given all the toxicity with little positive history to build off of.

Agreed.

But teams that are successful on the field, or ice, over a period of time can fix a lot of things. Including the toxicity built by previous ownership.

Until Arizona finds an ownership group that, IMO, understands that, they won't find stability.

Fix the team
Fixes the fanbase
Improves chances of long term success.

 

[Jim Bob]

Agreed.

But teams that are successful on the field, or ice, over a period of time can fix a lot of things. Including the toxicity built by previous ownership.

Until Arizona finds an ownership group that, IMO, understands that, they won't find stability.

Fix the team
Fixes the fanbase
Improves chances of long term success.

They are still in the early stages of a tear down rebuild.

Good luck fixing the team.

Or the stadium situation.

 

[Gras]

Arizona has had multiple ownership groups and none of them have been able to stabilize things. And more importantly, they have done so much damage in the region that many residents, and sports fans, will never support the team.

It will be a really heavy lift to fix things there given all the toxicity with little positive history to build off of.

Putting the arena in Glendale was the biggest mistake the organization ever made.

Perspective Fredonia to Keybank 50 miles

My house to Glendale Arena 59 miles

My house to Footprint Center (Suns) 40 miles

My house to Mullet 34 Miles

The majority of hockey fans in the metro are going to be in the eastern half of the metro

 

[Gras]

 

[Sabreality]

Oh man, Canucks mgmt is terrible.

 

[Zman5778]

Oh man, Canucks mgmt is terrible.

I dunno. DeSmith is a fine backup to Demko and they get out from under Pearson's bloated deal. 3rd rounder for the ~1.5M ish cap space isn't exorbitant.

And if Pearson is healthy, Montreal can probably flip him at the deadline for something.

Tidy little deal for Montreal......and it's the price Vancouver had to pay for a backup goalie and cap space.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Real tears.

Efin' drugs and those who prescribe them....... It's a plague and it will destroy everone/thing it touches. Don't go there!

 

[Rowley Birkin]

While I won't say your opinion is wrong, I don't feel it's informed by the League's revenue structure and strategy.

Also @Jim Bob

You're not going to be able to convince me that the NHL - being by far the smallest of the four major leagues - can sustain itself with more than 32 teams when the other three leagues don't have that many.

Expanding to 32 made complete sense purely in terms of competitive symmetry. But at this point - if i were in charge - I'd look to improve the struggling franchises & create a more level playing field between the 32 teams i had, before creating more.

I think the success of Vegas plus the relative success of Seattle, is also skewing people's opinions of this issue.

 

[TehDoak]

Also @Jim Bob

You're not going to be able to convince me that the NHL - being by far the smallest of the four major leagues - can sustain itself with more than 32 teams when the other three leagues don't have that many.

Expanding to 32 made complete sense purely in terms of competitive symmetry. But at this point - if i were in charge - I'd look to improve the struggling franchises & create a more level playing field between the 32 teams i had, before creating more.

I think the success of Vegas plus the relative success of Seattle, is also skewing people's opinions of this issue.

I honestly don't believe the NHL will expand.

32 teams is about as balanced as you can get and there are several markets that plainly aren't profitable.

What I do believe is happening is they are floating the idea of another expansion to stabilize the Coyotes selling price.

If prospective buyers believe an expansion fee will be close to 1B, the idea of paying 600-700M+ for the coyotes might seem more palatable. Gary Bettman's #1 job to the owners is to preserve and grow franchise values. That is done by growing the audience and making the franchises hard to acquire. An example is the Islanders sold for 548M in 2014. The Senators just sold for 950M. In 9 years, franchise values have risen close to 75%. That is very much bubble-ish behavior.

What they CAN'T have is multiple franchises tanking and it becoming a buyers market. If 3+ clubs were in crisis, the bubble would very much burst.

 

[Jim Bob]

32 Thoughts: What's next for the Blue Jackets?​

 

[Jim Bob]

Report: Ducks still far apart in talks with RFAs Zegras, Drysdale

The Anaheim Ducks aren't close to signing Trevor Zegras or Jamie Drysdale with training camp set to open this week, TSN's Pierre LeBrun reported on Tuesday's edition of "Insider Trading."Both franchise players are restricted free agents. LeBrun noted Zegras and the Ducks are willing to agree on...

www.thescore.com

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Also @Jim Bob

You're not going to be able to convince me that the NHL - being by far the smallest of the four major leagues - can sustain itself with more than 32 teams when the other three leagues don't have that many.

Expanding to 32 made complete sense purely in terms of competitive symmetry. But at this point - if i were in charge - I'd look to improve the struggling franchises & create a more level playing field between the 32 teams i had, before creating more.

I think the success of Vegas plus the relative success of Seattle, is also skewing people's opinions of this issue.

The difference between those leagues is how they make money. I'm not sure what would cause the NHL not to be able to sustain itself? It's not like their costs geometrically increase with the number for franchises.

The NHL makes it money based off attendance not television. The league doesn't want to improve struggling franchises, they could easily with revenue sharing. What they want is cost certainly and a certain level of attendance. If they can find an acceptable operator willing to buy into those conditions they'll add.

This is my understanding of how the league operates, not necessarily my endorsement of their strategy.

 

[Dingo44]

Red Wings deeper, more competitive, but Yzerman says it’s not ‘playoffs or bust’

Red Wings deeper, more competitive, but Yzerman says it’s not ‘playoffs or bust’

Flurry of offseason moves should lead to more competition for jobs, ice time at training camp.

www.mlive.com

“When you say playoffs or bust, I guess you’re prepared to trade all your draft picks and whatever you have to do,” Yzerman said Tuesday in a pre-camp media address. “So, it’s not playoffs or bust, but we’re going to try to win every game and we’re going to try to make the playoffs. But to me, it’s not at the expense of the future.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Red Wings deeper, more competitive, but Yzerman says it’s not ‘playoffs or bust’

Red Wings deeper, more competitive, but Yzerman says it’s not ‘playoffs or bust’

Flurry of offseason moves should lead to more competition for jobs, ice time at training camp.

www.mlive.com

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