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Around the NHL - Part XXXVII

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LionsHeart said:
Out of all of Gortons moves while here, trading Miller has to be the worst one. Just yikes. He’s turned into a helluva player.
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Trading Miller isn't the problem. Its the fact that the goods received didn't match or exceed the value. Hajek is terrible. Howden was overvalued. Namestnikov was to offset salary/roster spot. If we traded Miller alone its a bad trade, but Miller and McD?

Miller had an attitude issue and didn't learn from his mistakes. Guess no one remembers the countless backhand pass through the middle from his own corner. I'm not talking the kind Fox makes that is 99.9% accurate, Miller's went to the other team 99% of the time. Tampa ended trading him too but they aren't kicking themselves over that trade. Sometimes your roster moves have to be looked at holistically and in Gorts case his big winners are the Nash, Ziba, Strome trades. Most of the other moves, including draft picks were stinkers.
 
will1066 said:
This jibes with what Machinehead's been saying. Our organization is ok with our brand of pseudo hockey and laid back culture where leadership is de-centralized. Guys like Miller, Howden and Duclair go elsewhere and become real hockey players. Ex-Rangers love coming back to play us and work us over.
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I mean, Duclair is literally with his sixth organization by age 26. And we didn't give up on him, we traded him for one of the premier offensive defensemen in the game. Kind of harsh to include him in a list of failed player development situations.

Miller obviously didn't reach his full potential with us but he was still a very good player. He didn't reach his full potential with Tampa, either, and they're a very good player development organization. He himself has said being traded helped him put it together, no?

Howden may be moderately better than he was with us, but he has also been extremely lucky this year and beyond his totally unsustainable shooting percentage isn't producing much more than he has in the past.

There is an argument to be made that we give up on players too soon, and that we struggle to develop forwards. I don't think either applies to Duclair, Miller is debatable, and I still think Howden sucks.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
I mean, Duclair is literally with his sixth organization by age 26. And we didn't give up on him, we traded him for one of the premier offensive defensemen in the game. Kind of harsh to include him in a list of failed player development situations.

Miller obviously didn't reach his full potential with us but he was still a very good player. He didn't reach his full potential with Tampa, either, and they're a very good player development organization. He himself has said being traded helped him put it together, no?

Howden may be moderately better than he was with us, but he has also been extremely lucky this year and beyond his totally unsustainable shooting percentage isn't producing much more than he has in the past.

There is an argument to be made that we give up on players too soon, and that we struggle to develop forwards. I don't think either applies to Duclair, Miller is debatable, and I still think Howden sucks.
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Happy to eat crow on this. I used poor examples to illustrate that something is amiss in our organization that blocks many players from flourishing and even maturing as people.
 
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will1066 said:
Happy to eat crow on this. I used poor examples to illustrate that something is amiss in our organization that blocks many players from flourishing and even maturing as people.
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No worries. I mean the Miller thing, I think you can debate that one. Maybe we could have done more to get him on track? He had an up-and-down start to his career, and I remember some people were really impatient. But by the time we traded him, he was a 50+ point guy, so I think we actually did pretty well there. He was only 24 when we moved him so I don't think it's too surprising that his best hockey was ahead of him. I think the indictment of NYR there was the trade itself. Honestly I've always considered Miller a success for us, in terms of how we developed him, even though it didn't end well.

Duclair, for me he's like Marchessault. He's always mentioned as a guy we gave up on, and we didn't. Marchessault we tried to sign, but he wanted to go elsewhere, and even then (like Duclair) it took several years and organizations before he became a top-tier talent. I still like the Yandle deal. It was subsequent maneuvers, I think, that make us feel bad about that one.

Howden, I will acknowledge the verdict is still out on.
 
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Watching the start of this Dallas-Press game, Nashville is going to be one tough matchup for anyone in the West come playoff time. They're a really heavy team that likes to forecheck & cycle relentlessly.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
No worries. I mean the Miller thing, I think you can debate that one. Maybe we could have done more to get him on track? He had an up-and-down start to his career, and I remember some people were really impatient. But by the time we traded him, he was a 50+ point guy, so I think we actually did pretty well there. He was only 24 when we moved him so I don't think it's too surprising that his best hockey was ahead of him. I think the indictment of NYR there was the trade itself. Honestly I've always considered Miller a success for us, in terms of how we developed him, even though it didn't end well.

Duclair, for me he's like Marchessault. He's always mentioned as a guy we gave up on, and we didn't. Marchessault we tried to sign, but he wanted to go elsewhere, and even then (like Duclair) it took several years and organizations before he became a top-tier talent. I still like the Yandle deal. It was subsequent maneuvers, I think, that make us feel bad about that one.

Howden, I will acknowledge the verdict is still out on.
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I think at the end of the day, except for the generational and upper echelon talents, most players take up to their mid-20s to blossom and that we're not the only organization that gives up on players too early. There is still an element our organization makes things harder than they need to be, because we're in a high profile market and you can't be a losing team for too long as there's that pressure to win. It's why Duclair and Miller ran into the structured hockey blackhole that is AV. We hired AV to make us a playoff team. It's why Buch had to be traded because he couldn't be afforded. It's win today, and make the playoffs.
 
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Good luck to MSL with that sad team in Montreal. I haven't seen a team that bad since...this year's Coyotes lol.
 
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Hire Sather said:
If we're trashing the Rangers for player development, we also have to remember Brassard, Zib and even Strome coming here and becoming much better players.
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Yeah, but we didn't develop them as rookies. They all got here as veterans, we don't seem to mess up that part.

Trashing rookie development is still absolutely fair ...
 
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Damn just realised no Brad for Bread to exterminate now..
The Rat was just afraid of The Mother Russia Retribution I reckon.
 
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