Around the NHL: Part XVIII

[broadwayblue]

regardless of how they turn out, this was an absolutely terrible return for NJ

me likey

Is it really a terrible return for a rental?

There's a hard 1st-round pick in the Hall trade PLUS another conditional 1st-round pick IF the Coyotes re-sign Hall AND win a playoff round. The conditional pick becomes a third-round pick if neither of those things happen. And a 2nd-round pick if one of those 2 things happen.

So assuming only one of the two conditions are met they end up with a 1st, a 2nd, and a bunch of prospects.

 

[CasusBelli]

I think that the rental market just wasn't what it used to be for selling teams.

I'd be shocked if Kreider netted a 1st.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[mike14]

I’m not sure about that. Isn’t there one hard first and another possible first? It’s not impossible Arizona wins a round. Hall signing there Is probably little less than 50/50.
Is the conditional first lottery protected?
If they hit two first rounders it’s a big win corn Nj I think. Obviously none of those prospects are can’t miss solid NHL players

This year's is guaranteed, but top 3 protected. The 2021 is a 1st if they make the playoffs and Hall signs there, a 2nd if one of these things happens and 3rd if none of them do.

 

[CasusBelli]

Is it really a terrible return for a rental?

There's a hard 1st-round pick in the Hall trade PLUS another conditional 1st-round pick IF the Coyotes re-sign Hall AND win a playoff round. The conditional pick becomes a third-round pick if neither of those things happen. And a 2nd-round pick if one of those 2 things happen

So, realistically, a late first and a late second or third. Hall isn’t re-signing; I’m 50/50 on the Yotes winning a playoff round.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Is it really a terrible return for a rental?

There's a hard 1st-round pick in the Hall trade PLUS another conditional 1st-round pick IF the Coyotes re-sign Hall AND win a playoff round. The conditional pick becomes a third-round pick if neither of those things happen. And a 2nd-round pick if one of those 2 things happen.

So assuming only one of the two conditions are met they end up with a 1st, a 2nd, and a bunch of prospects.

Too early to tell. It really depends on where that 1st round pick lands, if any of the conditions are met, and if any of those prospects pan out.

 

[JimmyG89]

Market for Kreider should jump. Him and Toffoli are only wingers worth anything to teams. Can play top 6 for teams.

Ennis is a 3rd liner at best playing big minutes.

Lots of fighting over those two will happen. Expecting a Hayes return for Kreider should be expected at this rate.

This is a bad return for an UFA that averaged a point per game over his last 4 seasons

 

[bl02]

Way too soon to tell if it’s bad or good trade.
They didn’t get Soderstrom or even a Byram but again way too early to call it a bad return.

 

[nyr2k2]

This is why I said it would be crazy to make a determination on what would constitute a good/bad Kreider trade at this point. Hall deal kinda lowers the bar, no? Unless there's a bidding war?

 

[eco's bones]

At the very least the Devils will have 2 picks in the upcoming draft, and one of them will be top 5 because the team is ****ing garbage and just lost their only good player.

They should have at least a 50/50 shot at one of Lafreniere or Byfield with their own pick. The return IMO is very underwhelming---it just makes their own pick more likely to be in the top 3. We'll have to root for them to win as much as possible the rest of the season---pretty much against everybody but us.

 

[eco's bones]

This is why I said it would be crazy to make a determination on what would constitute a good/bad Kreider trade at this point. Hall deal kinda lowers the bar, no? Unless there's a bidding war?

I don't know if it lowers the return of Kreider. This is a deal made in November for one thing. Kreider won't be a cap issue for most teams at the deadline.

 

[effen]

I’m not sure about that. Isn’t there one hard first and another possible first? It’s not impossible Arizona wins a round. Hall signing there Is probably little less than 50/50.
Is the conditional first lottery protected?
If they hit two first rounders it’s a big win for Nj I think. Obviously none of those prospects are can’t miss solid NHL players

If Hall is ALWAYS getting a 1st++, then the 1st doesn't matter, it's what else they got.

They got a poo-poo platter of B/C guys - Merkley can't crack the roster and is without a standout skill and a torn ACL in his past, Bahl has the literal mountain of historical gawky 6'5"+ D-Man busts to battle against without much offensive acumen, and whatever a Nate Schnarr is, if he was in Arizona's top-5 prospects (doesn't seem like he was) he'd be #5.

That they couldn't get Soderstrom or alternately multiple gtd 1sts for a surefire PPG top-line winger 2 years removed from a Hart trophy is rough but I could understand it. That THAT package of trashola was the best they could get in the entire league is malpractice and a snap-fireable offense.

 

[Tob]

Why do the Devils need a defensive prospect that only has size and no offense when they already have PK Subban?

 

[effen]

Why do the Devils need a defensive prospect that only has size and no offense when they already have PK Subban?

because PK Subban is 5'11

 

[nyr2k2]

Merkley, Bahl, and Schnarr sound like a group of villains from an 80s cartoon.

 

[Gardner McKay]

This is why I said it would be crazy to make a determination on what would constitute a good/bad Kreider trade at this point. Hall deal kinda lowers the bar, no? Unless there's a bidding war?

It does lower the bar but, it also takes takes some supply of the market.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I feel like in his haste, Ray Shero decided to not do the part of his job that would increase Hall’s value

 

[cheech70]

You could have gotten that return anytime between now and the deadline....only risk was injury and upside was that he got on a hot streak..Gorts gets more if he had Hall.

 

[NYR Viper]

The other thing that this does for the Devils is it begins their tank. If we thought they were bad before...

 

[LokiDog]

I don't know if it lowers the return of Kreider. This is a deal made in November for one thing. Kreider won't be a cap issue for most teams at the deadline.

Not necessarily arguing, but it’s mid December lol

 

[Inferno]

Yikes ...devil's ...yikes.

 

[Maximus]

The other thing that this does for the Devils is it begins their tank. If we thought they were bad before...

Was thinking exactly this as well. If we think the Red Wings are bad this year, just wait till we see the Devils the rest of the season.

Currently Detroit has 21 points and the Debs have 25. It is not crazy to think that with the team Jersey will be putting out there rest of this season they can have an all time horrific season like Colorado had 3 years I ago I think when they had 47 points.

It really sucks too seeing with their f***ing luck in these drafts, they'll likely get the 1st or 2nd overall pick and get themselves Lafreniere or Blyfield.

I hate the Devils when they win and now I hate them when they lose....uggggggg

 

[egelband]

This is why I said it would be crazy to make a determination on what would constitute a good/bad Kreider trade at this point. Hall deal kinda lowers the bar, no? Unless there's a bidding war?

I wonder if the trade deadline is moving up a bit, so to speak. Seems teams are realizing there’s a diminishing return letting a player play out the string for a team he’s sure to leave. Maybe I’m thinking a little wishfully. But possibly we can see the big deals happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Are those people really wrong though?

That's not really the point. The point is mainly that people label Lias a bust, complain about his lack of development, while at the same time claiming we should have drafted Mittelstadt who was, according to some reports, doing well in Buffalo.

It's a typical case of "the grass is always greener" etc. We heard how we should have gone for Vilardi (who has not even made his NHL debut yet) or how Tolvanen is a blue-chip prospect who has played just 7 games in the NHL 2,5 years after being drafted. You can't complain about one player being a bust for not sticking in the NHL, while at the same time claim others in similar positions are good prospects. I know this all leads back to the NBC crew selling the "most NHL ready prospect" nonsense on draft night but it doesn't change the fact that it's simply too early to label any of these players.

 

[Edge]

It does lower the bar but, it also takes takes some supply of the market.

Personally, I'm not sure it really changes the bar too much.

While I think the Devils didn't get maximum value for Hall, and probably feared him getting injured and producing nothing in a trade, the value they received is still more than the price for Kreider. So I don't think it's a trickle down scenario where the discounts resonates through the ranks of players who are on the market.

Unless Hall is still out there is an alternative to Kreider, Gorton probably don't really care what Arizona paid. And for other teams, the response is "if you don't want him, don't trade for him."

But with all this comes a warning --- we need to have reasonable expectations for a Kreider deal. We're not getting Newhook. We're not getting Studnicka. We're not getting Necas, or Kaut.

If it's not a first, it's going to be a younger NHL player who is a bit of a reclamation project as the centerpiece.

And no, we will not have an immediate replacement for Kreider. At least in terms of what he brings to the team.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

That's not really the point. The point is mainly that people label Lias a bust, complain about his lack of development, while at the same time claiming we should have drafted Mittelstadt who was, according to some reports, doing well in Buffalo.

It's a typical case of "the grass is always greener" etc. We heard how we should have gone for Vilardi (who has not even made his NHL debut yet) or how Tolvanen is a blue-chip prospect who has played just 7 games in the NHL 2,5 years after being drafted. You can't complain about one player being a bust for not sticking in the NHL, while at the same time claim others in similar positions are good prospects. I know this all leads back to the NBC crew selling the "most NHL ready prospect" nonsense on draft night but it doesn't change the fact that it's simply too early to label any of these players.

That's fine, but I'm just saying that the people who shit on Mittelstadt are just as annoying as the people who label Lias a bust