Around the NHL - Part XLII - (2023-24 Season edition)

[I Eat Crow]

Jenner may have been attempting to keep the lid on this and handle it internally rather than airing something in the press. I wouldn't say that he needs to be vilified here unless I missed something

It's not the trying to keep it in house that I'd be concerned about. It's that he condoned what Babcock was doing publicly and backed his coach in denying the allegations initially. He threw his teammates under the bus. Full stop. Can you imagine being a young guy on this team? I know I'd never trust him.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's not the trying to keep it in house that I'd be concerned about. It's that he condoned what Babcock was doing publicly and backed his coach in denying the allegations initially. He threw his teammates under the bus. Full stop. Can you imagine being a young guy on this team? I know I'd never trust him.

I'm sure there are ways to vet this internally. He's a veteran trying to NOT blow things up in the press. What he says publicly and what he says behind closed doors are two separate things.

 

[zlev]

this is an upgrade for Columbus. Babcock is a horrible coach and even worse person. from what I've read it sounds like Vincent probably should've got the HC job in the first place.

 

[McRanger92]

Jenner may have been attempting to keep the lid on this and handle it internally rather than airing something in the press. I wouldn't say that he needs to be vilified here unless I missed something

I feel like CBJ Management sent Jenner out there to show solidarity with Babcock. Impossible situation for a player who has given a lot to the Columbus franchise. Davidson has clearly shown he is way out of touch with the modern player, between this cluster and how he failed to back the Rangers players after the Wilson incident.

 

[nyr2k2]

Like what did they expect with Babcock? The other behavior was shit they could look past, but this was too much for them? I mean I know it's more nuanced than that, but what a f***ing stupid and totally foreseeable thing.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Like what did they expect with Babcock? The other behavior was shit they could look past, but this was too much for them? I mean I know it's more nuanced than that, but what a f***ing stupid and totally foreseeable thing.

It’s not too much for them, the backlash on social media and bad pr is what was too much for them.

If this never became public they wouldn’t have cared even if players complained directly to them.

 

[nyr2k2]

It’s not too much for them, the backlash on social media and bad pr is what was too much for them.

If this never became public they wouldn’t have cared even if players complained directly to them.

That's all true, but if you told me going in, "At some point Babcock will do something that social media takes issue with and it will become a big controversy in the media because Babcock" I'd be like, yeah, no shit.

Honestly the reason I didn't want Babcock here had nothing to do with his ability as a coach and everything to do with the fact that he's a total douchebag, and it just seemed like a matter of time before he did something stupid that would embarrass us.

 

[I Eat Crow]

It’s not too much for them, the backlash on social media and bad pr is what was too much for them.

If this never became public they wouldn’t have cared even if players complained directly to them.

There's way more to this story than the coach looking at player's phones. Just hasn't come out yet.

 

[Levitate]

There's way more to this story than the coach looking at player's phones. Just hasn't come out yet.

I wonder...I mean "coach looking at players phones" is enough to be an issue if he's pressuring players who aren't comfortable with that kind of thing and especially if he's doing it away from team functions as was reported, because again it's the same pattern of how he has messed with players in the past.

And it's all absolutely nuts. Why would you ever think that was a good thing to do. Who ever thinks "yes this will let me create a bond with my players so they will trust me". Either he's just a through and through piece of shit who thinks that belitting and demeaning players is the only way to "get the best out of them" or he's so absolutely clueless he can't conceive of how to be a leader and coach of a hockey team in a way that doesn't come off as sketchy and insulting and degrading to the players

just absolutely nuts

e: and to be clear, anyone saying the words "players these days" is taking the absolute wrong lesson from this. This isn't about "oh players aren't tough enough, they're different now". This kind of shit should never have been acceptable whether it's now or 40 years ago. Players standing up for themselves so they're not treated like shit by their coach isn't some indication of how "soft" players are these days.

And Chelios didn't seem to particulary like Babcock and he's the quintessential old timey tough hockey player (who's older than Babcock)

e2: I mean look at this petty shit

“What’s come up here in Toronto … it’s coming out to haunt Babcock for not so much his coaching as the way he treated people,” Chelios said, also citing a few of Babcock’s other well-known — and harshly-criticized — decisions when it comes to playing veterans.

“What he did to [Mike] Modano was incredibly disrespectful. What he did to, just recently, [Jason] Spezza in Toronto — those were the things that are so unnecessary,” he explained.

Babcock made Modano a healthy scratch late in 2011 — the final season of his NHL career and his only campaign with the Red Wings, leaving the now-Hall of Famer stuck at 1,499 career games played. Earlier this season, Babcock’s decision to scratch Spezza in the Maple Leafs’ season-opener against his old club, the Ottawa Senators, was also widely criticized.


“He tried to healthy scratch me in the outdoor game in Wrigley Field against Chicago because he knew it was my hometown — just things that were so unnecessary, to show he’s the boss, to show his general manager he’s the boss,” Chelios said. “That’s he’s on a power thing, his ego — that’s a big part of his personality.”

with that kind of history how could you ever trust the guy when he starts asking for shit like access to your personal life

While Chelios ultimately wasn’t scratched for that 2009 Winter Classic, he’d finish the game — a 6-4 Red Wings victory — with a total ice time just shy of two minutes.

“Kenny Holland and Jim Nill, for three days, argued with him. So what Babs ended up doing was, he suited up seven D for the first time ever …. He played me the opening shift, and then didn’t play me another shift the rest of the game. That was his way of showing Kenny and Jim Nill he’s not going to be told what to do,” Chelios explained, later stating that he felt Babcock “had it out for me from the beginning.”

“It’s just stupid things like that, and now it’s obviously coming back to haunt him and we’ll see if someone’s crazy enough to hire him again.”

Also lol that last line

 

[B17 Apricots]

I wonder...I mean "coach looking at players phones" is enough to be an issue if he's pressuring players who aren't comfortable with that kind of thing and especially if he's doing it away from team functions as was reported, because again it's the same pattern of how he has messed with players in the past.

And it's all absolutely nuts. Why would you ever think that was a good thing to do. Who ever thinks "yes this will let me create a bond with my players so they will trust me". Either he's just a through and through piece of shit who thinks that belitting and demeaning players is the only way to "get the best out of them" or he's so absolutely clueless he can't conceive of how to be a leader and coach of a hockey team in a way that doesn't come off as sketchy and insulting and degrading to the players

just absolutely nuts

e: and to be clear, anyone saying the words "players these days" is taking the absolute wrong lesson from this. This isn't about "oh players aren't tough enough, they're different now". This kind of shit should never have been acceptable whether it's now or 40 years ago. Players standing up for themselves so they're not treated like shit by their coach isn't some indication of how "soft" players are these days.

And Chelios didn't seem to particulary like Babcock and he's the quintessential old timey tough hockey player (who's older than Babcock)

e2: I mean look at this petty shit

with that kind of history how could you ever trust the guy when he starts asking for shit like access to your personal life


Also lol that last line

I'm glad you said it.. I'm sure most people here heard of all this stuff already but probably some that didn't know the entire scope of it. Even more stories than that too. There's a laundry list of people that have poor things to say about the dude.



Respect to Biz for this

 

[Bob Richards]

 

[Harbour Dog]

At least hiring Babcock for the summer probably saved the lives of a handful of pets in his neighborhood.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

So not only is Babs a world class asshole, he’s also a complete moron. He’s banished from the NHL for several years because of this behavior, he finally gets another chance and wastes no time doing the same shit lmao.

I guess when you have so many millions in the bank you don’t really need to be careful but seriously, what an idiot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is f***ing wild.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

Didn’t know where to put this, but thought it was interesting:

 

[Leonardo87]

Didn’t know where to put this, but thought it was interesting:

Feeling is mutual dude. lol

 

[frozenrubber]

Didn’t know where to put this, but thought it was interesting:

Never, EVER forget how shitty of a person James Dolan is.

Fans who chant, “Sell the team,” are often ejected from Madison Square Garden since they violated a code of conduct that forbids harassment of arena workers, according to Dolan.

“I am an employee,” Dolan said.
...
“(They’re) directed at, on a personal basis, the guy who’s in charge – me,” Dolan said.

'Employee' of the the team is rich. Yes, James Dolan is an employee of MSG Sports and Entertainment with total compensation ~$26.5M/yr.

The Dolan family controls MSG Sports — the company that owns the Knicks and Rangers, along with an AHL team and MSG’s gaming franchise — but Dolan is not only the leader of the entity, he also maintains final say on any transaction that would change who controls the company, and therefore the two professional sports teams. The voting rights of the Dolan Family Committee ensure it.

The committee is made up of five members of the Dolan family and “approval of a change in control transaction must be approved by not less than all but one vote,” according to an SEC filing made by MSG Sports last year. Each member of that committee gets one vote, except James Dolan, who gets two, which allows him to block any sale that would change who runs the company.

Knicks and Rangers owner James Dolan will be paid at least $26.5 million per year under new MSG contract

Dolan is not only the leader of MSG Sports, he also maintains final say on any transaction that would change who controls the company.

theathletic.com

But he's an 'employee' who both cannot be fired, has no accountability, and has majority equity ownership of the entity that 'owns' the team.

All of the above is without even mentioning his character, I can't even begin to type how much James Dolan should get bent.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Babcock is definitely a knuckle-dragger, but kids today are way too f***ing sensitive. This is the NHL, grow a f***ing pair...we're a week into camp for god's sake.

Kids these days are different than they were 20-30-40 years ago. We can argue about that all day. It's not changing anything.

As a head coach you have to understand the mindset of the people you work with. You can't treat all players the same way, nor treat them the way you treated guys decades ago. Times change, people change.

Babcock has not adjusted and as such, has become obsolete as a coach.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Kids these days are different than they were 20-30-40 years ago. We can argue about that all day. It's not changing anything.

As a head coach you have to understand the mindset of the people you work with. You can't treat all players the same way, nor treat them the way you treated guys decades ago. Times change, people change.

Babcock has not adjusted and as such, has become obsolete as a coach.

I typed that reply before it was widely reported he was going through their phones. My comments after this have made my stance clear that he was totally out of line & deserved his fate.

 

[Levitate]

Kids these days are different than they were 20-30-40 years ago. We can argue about that all day. It's not changing anything.

As a head coach you have to understand the mindset of the people you work with. You can't treat all players the same way, nor treat them the way you treated guys decades ago. Times change, people change.

Babcock has not adjusted and as such, has become obsolete as a coach.

"kids" are always different. previous generations are always complaining about the following generations. Mostly it's a bunch of crap and people feeling anxious that the world isn't the same way it was when they were kids.
shit changes, "kids" are growing up with different pressures and issues and dealing with things, good and bad, that previous generations never dealt with.

But beyond all that saying that someon should just shut up and take the abuse and that means "growing a pair" is the biggest bunch of eye roll worthy horseshit. Growing a pair is telling the piece of shit trying to blackmail you and play mind games to get f***ed. Growing a pair is getting his f***ing ass fired for being a weirdo and manipulative psycho. It's that exact mindset of "grow some thicker skin!" that allows power abusing abusive pieces of shit to to continue to abuse people. It's not a "kids these days" thing it's a "people shouldn't have to put up with that shit no matter what and how it was handled in the past is something that should be and is being improved on".

"kids these days" not wanting to be treated like shit isn't some sign of weakness. maybe previous generations should "grow a pair" and consider their experience isn't the only one that matters or the only way things should be

e: lol typed that before I saw Boris' last post here but honestly I'm still annoyed as hell because I've seen multiple media types frame this as "players these days..." instead of just saying "this shit was never acceptable to anyone"

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

"kids" are always different. previous generations are always complaining about the following generations. Mostly it's a bunch of crap and people feeling anxious that the world isn't the same way it was when they were kids.
shit changes, "kids" are growing up with different pressures and issues and dealing with things, good and bad, that previous generations never dealt with.

But beyond all that saying that someon should just shut up and take the abuse and that means "growing a pair" is the biggest bunch of eye roll worthy horseshit. Growing a pair is telling the piece of shit trying to blackmail you and play mind games to get f***ed. Growing a pair is getting his f***ing ass fired for being a weirdo and manipulative psycho. It's that exact mindset of "grow some thicker skin!" that allows power abusing abusive pieces of shit to to continue to abuse people. It's not a "kids these days" thing it's a "people shouldn't have to put up with that shit no matter what and how it was handled in the past is something that should be and is being improved on".

"kids these days" not wanting to be treated like shit isn't some sign of weakness. maybe previous generations should "grow a pair" and consider their experience isn't the only one that matters or the only way things should be

e: lol typed that before I saw Boris' last post here but honestly I'm still annoyed as hell because I've seen multiple media types frame this as "players these days..." instead of just saying "this shit was never acceptable to anyone"

Yeah, my point was mainly that kids are different, not "softer" than previous generations. These kids are more outspoken than prospects were in the 90s. Those older generations let people get away with much more. If anything, they're the soft ones

 

[eco's bones]

That's all true, but if you told me going in, "At some point Babcock will do something that social media takes issue with and it will become a big controversy in the media because Babcock" I'd be like, yeah, no shit.

Honestly the reason I didn't want Babcock here had nothing to do with his ability as a coach and everything to do with the fact that he's a total douchebag, and it just seemed like a matter of time before he did something stupid that would embarrass us.

Actually his teams have usually been successful so saying he's a bad coach is missing the issue. He kept getting rehired because teams think he'd help him make the next step. The problem is he's a micromanaging asshole and it's not enough to keep it to the rink.....one might think of it in a more predatory way that follows players home at night and keeps them guessing even in their away time from the rink and into their private lives. Why it's important to him to dig into the privacy of his players I don't know.....that he didn't learn lessons from his previous coaching tenures and terrible publicity just points to me to controls issues that pretty much cross over into full out narcissism. Even Keenan didn't go that far.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah, my point was mainly that kids are different, not "softer" than previous generations. These kids are more outspoken than prospects were in the 90s. Those older generations let people get away with much more. If anything, they're the soft ones

Yeah like I said I’m mostly ranting at then narrative and not anyone specific on here, hah

There’s been a lot of “intense” coaches that pushed players hard but also respected them enough so that the players (mostly) didn’t hate them. Those mind games and flaunting of power Babcock did is something beyond all that

 

[duhmetreE]

this is so outlandish that it sounds fake.

Canadian Psycho

 

[JCProdigy]

this is so outlandish that it sounds fake.

Canadian Psycho

So

But