Around the NHL - Part XLII - (2023-24 Season edition)

[LokiDog]

People hate Erik Karlsson because it's a meme to hate Erik Karlsson. That's a factor above and beyond our usual discourse.

I love Erik Karlsson. Return was lousy for SJ. Shows that cap space really is the most valuable asset in the league today.

Karlsson’s negative defensive presence is overblown. He’s a high risk player who gets caught a lot but he’s not actually bad at defending. Especially when he’s motivated. I’ve never understood why it’s so popular to hop on the EK can’t defend train, but it’s an exaggeration. He’ll have some highlight reel gafs, but I get the impression most of the people repeating the narrative watched less than 10 periods of SJ hockey the last few years. It’s just a popular trope about smaller, non-physical D - they’re liabilities.

You’d think Rangers fans would get that.

 

[Machinehead]

I love Erik Karlsson. Return was lousy for SJ. Shows that cap space really is the most valuable asset in the league today.

Karlsson’s negative defensive presence is overblown. He’s a high risk player who gets caught a lot but he’s not actually bad at defending. Especially when he’s motivated. I’ve never understood why it’s so popular to hop on the EK can’t defend train, but it’s an exaggeration. He’ll have some highlight reel gafs, but I get the impression most of the people repeating the narrative watched less than 10 periods of SJ hockey the last few years. It’s just a popular trope about smaller, non-physical D - they’re liabilities.

You’d think Rangers fans would get that.

This whole site has such a phobia over defensemen putting up points.

That's why you still occasionally see people saying Fox isn't a good defender.

I think it's because most folks here grew up in an era of NHL hockey where 3-2 was an offensive outburst.

We're back to 7-5 now and it makes players like Karlsson even more valuable.

 

[FultonReed]

stop, it hurts


anson carter was pretty good

relative to Jagr though?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

People act like Karlsson didn't just win the Norris.

It's just cool to make fun of him at this point, but the Sharks scored 0.84 more goals per 60 with him on versus him off, and only gave up 0.12 more goals.

He's a huge net positive. Always has been.

Karlsson rocks, sure he’s old but this makes the Penguins good enough to make the playoffs again and you never know once they’re in, they almost took us out easily with a pretty mediocre team on their end last year. He just had a historic season and he’s been one of the best PLAYERS in the league his whole career outside of a couple injured season. They have 4 guys, maybe even 5 if we’re counting chicken little, that can take over a game. Crosby and Karlsson are old but they’re still two of the absolute scariest players in the league.

Them staying healthy is the massive question mark. And Jarry.

I do also wonder about a SJ type chemistry issue with Karlsson coming in with another offensive defenseman top dog already there in Letang same as with Burns. If now you have Letang and Karlsson but neither of them are getting the reps they usually do then it could be a bit bumpy. Crosby being the nucleus though and with Sullivan behind the bench they should be an easy top 4 metro team. I’ll just hope for chemistry issues and injuries in their side.

I feel like the Penguins have been dead each of the last 3 seasons but they just won’t die. This is how I feel about them:

 

[SA16]

Plus with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Karlsson on the PP they'll be at like 50% for the year.

Karlsson has not been very good on the PP for basically his entire career. He’s a great 5v5 scorer. Very average on the PP.

 

[Synergy27]

It’s very easy to look at that Penguins roster and be intimidated by it because you forget it’s 2023. Crosby isn’t Crosby anymore. Malkin isn’t Malkin. Karlsson, well, there’s no denying the season he just had but he’s not the EK65 that terrorized the Rangers in the 2012 playoffs.

I’m just amazed that the Penguins were able to shed those contracts in the deal. You’d think they’d be paying a first plus second just to get rid of Petry and Granlund.

Still not overly concerned about that team. They remind me of the 2002 Rangers. This was a very Rangers move by them.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

relative to Jagr though?

of course not, but he wasn't a scrub by any means

 

[RGY]

It's the same thing that causes all the arguing.

I'm not saying everyone has to be miserable or that the Rangers can't be a good team.

My only thing is, this weird ass f***ing entitlement the last two summers that the Rangers are in the NHL's cream of the crop is a) wrong and b) sets a really toxic expectation around the team.

Its not entitlement its common sense that they are better than the Penguins.

 

[Rongomania]

It’s very easy to look at that Penguins roster and be intimidated by it because you forget it’s 2023. Crosby isn’t Crosby anymore. Malkin isn’t Malkin. Karlsson, well, there’s no denying the season he just had but he’s not the EK65 that terrorized the Rangers in the 2012 playoffs.

I’m just amazed that the Penguins were able to shed those contracts in the deal. You’d think they’d be paying a first plus second just to get rid of Petry and Granlund.

Still not overly concerned about that team. They remind me of the 2002 Rangers. This was a very Rangers move by them.

Karlsson has this wild outlier season where he actually stayed completely healthy. I really just don't think that's who we will be seeing come April.

And let's stop joking around here, people acting like Chytil/Laf/Kakko aren't going to progress from last season.... That is and always will be the key for this teams success in the post season. Last time we won a playoff series, it was because of those three kids killing it.

Pens do not scare me. Their second best other legendary center stopped being able to skate almost two years ago.

 

[Synergy27]

Karlsson has this wild outlier season where he actually stayed completely healthy. I really just don't think that's who we will be seeing come April.

And let's stop joking around here, people acting like Chytil/Laf/Kakko aren't going to progress from last season.... That is and always will be the key for this teams success in the post season. Last time we won a playoff series, it was because of those three kids killing it.

Pens do not scare me. Their second best other legendary center stopped being able to skate almost two years ago.

They have three forwards under 30yo and one of them is out until Thanksgiving.

We always harp about how this is a young man’s game.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

relative to Jagr though?

I was thinking the same thing. Compared to me, Stu Bickel is pretty good. That doesn't mean Stu Bickel is good.

 

[will1066]

The Pens got Karlsson ($11.5 - 1.5 retention) for a protected 1st, ditching a washed Petry ($6.25M) and a completely turbo washed Gralund ($4M).

What a slam dunk. LMAO.

That Montreal wanted Petry back is effin hilarious. Way to go, GMJG.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well Karlsson is legitimately bad at defense and always has been. There are better metrics today than there were 10 years ago when everyone was making the case that he was actually good there.

He's the best offensive defenseman of his generation and that isn't really refutable. The way Pittsburgh is built, trying to outscore everyone is their best path to victory because they sure as hell aren't going to be able to beat teams by trying to keep pucks out of their net.

Age and all the other shit has already started to catch up to Letang and it's going to grab a hold of their other guys pretty soon if not this year. Given the state of their roster its a great move (especially at that price) but I just don't think its going to work out for them the way they want it to but that has everything to do with what was already there.

 

[LOFIN]

You can argue about their plan of going all in for the last years of Crosby, but that was decided years ago by the ownership. And set in stone when they re-signed Malkin and Letang. Getting Karlsson makes absolutely sense in that context, and Dubas did well here.

Grier should've moved Karlsson at the deadline, when the Oilers were interested in him for a better price (although probably would've needed to retain more).

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don’t care at all about Washington, they are a non-factor. And don’t really care about Pittsburgh either , they will probably have a good regular season but are not a threat in the playoffs.

If we focus on playing a better team game, and Lav and his henchmen can implement an actual modern system , I think our individual talent can take on all comers including Carolina and the new 80s Oilers I mean Devils

 

[Filthy Dangles]

This whole site has such a phobia over defensemen putting up points.

That's why you still occasionally see people saying Fox isn't a good defender.

I think it's because most folks here grew up in an era of NHL hockey where 3-2 was an offensive outburst.

We're back to 7-5 now and it makes players like Karlsson even more valuable.

If karlsson was a Ranger you and everyone else would absolutely be ripping his defensive play and saying his contract is among worst in league and now he’s a typical overpaid Ranger

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This whole site has such a phobia over defensemen putting up points.

That's why you still occasionally see people saying Fox isn't a good defender.

I think it's because most folks here grew up in an era of NHL hockey where 3-2 was an offensive outburst.

We're back to 7-5 now and it makes players like Karlsson even more valuable.

Fox is actually a good defender though. Karlsson is terrible. Whether it’s by choice or not doesn’t matter.

 

[Crease]

The difference between Karlsson, Fox, and Makar is that Karlsson actually sucks at defense, whereas people just think Fox and Makar do because they put up a lot of points.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This whole site has such a phobia over defensemen putting up points.

That's why you still occasionally see people saying Fox isn't a good defender.

I think it's because most folks here grew up in an era of NHL hockey where 3-2 was an offensive outburst.

We're back to 7-5 now and it makes players like Karlsson even more valuable.

Was just going to say this.

If you are a defenseman in the NHL and playing top 4 minutes you can play defense, move the puck and probably play either PP or PK or both. Metrics may not be perfect, but that's valuable. If you are a Norris level defenseman who can change the game on a nightly basis like EK, its a rarity and you happily pay for that.

For the Pens this deal makes perfect sense. Whether or not this will work out for them is based on if they can get Sid and Malkin another Cup. This helps those chances. They have a lot of firepower. In the end it doesnt really matter anyway. They were never going to become sellers. Not until those two retire.

So to me this points more towards the long-term future of the Pens. The longer they keep trying to squeeze out one more Cup the longer it will take for them to get back to the level thereafter.

 

[Machinehead]

If karlsson was a Ranger you and everyone else would absolutely be ripping his defensive play and saying his contract is among worst in league and now he’s a typical overpaid Ranger

Everyone else, yes.

Do you even know who I am?

Tell me I'm going to rip this guy with a chart like that.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I sure that I’m missing it but what did Montreal trade to Sam Jose?

 

[FultonReed]

I was thinking the same thing. Compared to me, Stu Bickel is pretty good. That doesn't mean Stu Bickel is good.

you're probably better than Stu Bickel at speaking Italian

 

[17futurecap]

I sure that I’m missing it but what did Montreal trade to Sam Jose?

Rem Pitlick went to Pit, and Mike Hoffman went to the Sharks.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The Rangers are one Adam Fox injury from having a 25% chance at the playoffs. They are *very* precariously constructed.

Most teams without their star player have a much harder time getting to the playoffs. If Pitsburgh loses Crosby they're toast. The hope is that you have players in the organization that can pick up a piece of what the injured player brings and the rest have to play tighter. Ie Jones, Miller or Gustafson can run the pp,Scheider plays the pk and the rest of the d have to pick up a few extra mins. Having said that, you mentioned Fox, but we are going actually no where if Igor gets hurt and Quick is our goalie. That's the irreplaceable hole on this team, the biggest hope we have in that regard is that Garrand is ready, but that's a big ask.

 

[Profet]

Most teams without their star player have a much harder time getting to the playoffs. If Pitsburgh loses Crosby they're toast. The hope is that you have players in the organization that can pick up a piece of what the injured player brings and the rest have to play tighter. Ie Jones, Miller or Gustafson can run the pp,Scheider plays the pk and the rest of the d have to pick up a few extra mins. Having said that, you mentioned Fox, but we are going actually no where if Igor gets hurt and Quick is our goalie. That's the irreplaceable hole on this team, the biggest hope we have in that regard is that Garrand is ready, but that's a big ask.

Big disagree.

Shesterkin is a big part of this team, but if we've learned anything, good goalies are always available. And great goalies are a luxury, not a requirement.